Conference Realignment so far & the A10

[kevinfootes]

While Big 12 football will be hurt by the loss of Nebraska, the remaining schools should create a much better basketball conference. The Big 12 loses Colorado (120 rpi) and Nebraska (149 rpi).

The Big 10 gains #149 Nebraska, which should soften them a bit.

The Pac 10 gains #120 Colorado and #157 Utah, which should also soften them up.

The Mountain West trades #149 Utah for #207 Boise St.

The net of this is that the A10 should remain ahead of the Pac 10 and Mountain West in terms of rpi and could close the gap with the Big 10.

Does anyone see the events thus far as being anything other than positive for SLU and the A10?

[strozier]

While Big 12 football will be hurt by the loss of Nebraska, the remaining schools should create a much better basketball conference. The Big 12 loses Colorado (120 rpi) and Nebraska (149 rpi).

The Big 10 gains #149 Nebraska, which should soften them a bit.

The Pac 10 gains #120 Colorado and #157 Utah, which should also soften them up.

The Mountain West trades #149 Utah for #207 Boise St.

The net of this is that the A10 should remain ahead of the Pac 10 and Mountain West in terms of rpi and could close the gap with the Big 10.

Does anyone see the events thus far as being anything other than positive for SLU and the A10?

Not really, simply because we are not a "BCS Conference." You can realign all you want, but the fact remains.

[billiken_roy]

While Big 12 football will be hurt by the loss of Nebraska, the remaining schools should create a much better basketball conference. The Big 12 loses Colorado (120 rpi) and Nebraska (149 rpi).

The Big 10 gains #149 Nebraska, which should soften them a bit.

The Pac 10 gains #120 Colorado and #157 Utah, which should also soften them up.

The Mountain West trades #149 Utah for #207 Boise St.

The net of this is that the A10 should remain ahead of the Pac 10 and Mountain West in terms of rpi and could close the gap with the Big 10.

Does anyone see the events thus far as being anything other than positive for SLU and the A10?

this might be your best post in months. nice research! thank you very much. i had not even thought of these cause and effects. nice.

[Archy McNally]

While Big 12 football will be hurt by the loss of Nebraska, the remaining schools should create a much better basketball conference. The Big 12 loses Colorado (120 rpi) and Nebraska (149 rpi).

The Big 10 gains #149 Nebraska, which should soften them a bit.

The Pac 10 gains #120 Colorado and #157 Utah, which should also soften them up.

The Mountain West trades #149 Utah for #207 Boise St.

The net of this is that the A10 should remain ahead of the Pac 10 and Mountain West in terms of rpi and could close the gap with the Big 10.

Does anyone see the events thus far as being anything other than positive for SLU and the A10?

I completely agree. The Big 10 used to be the second best hoops conf but the addition of Penn St. has hurt them. They are still better than the A10 but the addition of NE is going to hurt.

The Pac 10 just took the perinial hoops doormat from the Big 12 and Utah has not been what it was since Majerus left. It definitely got worse and the A10 could close the gap. I will disagree that the A10 was ahead of the Pac 10 - you can't base it off of 1-year rpi when the A10 was at its best and the Pac 10 was at its worst. Don't count on UCLA to continue the down period - they are too much of a perenial hoops power. And they don't have Fordham in their conf. Still though, the Pac 10 is nothing to right home about now that they have these 2 programs and some of there other teams are struggling.

On the MWC, I am not sure Utah is that much better than Boise St. although the rpi from last year may have been that much different. They do have a little bit more name to the program though.

If Duq can continue to be better than they were historically and the Bonnies can continue to rebound from the mess that occured several years ago, it will really help the A10 in terms of rpi.

[kevinfootes]

I completely agree. The Big 10 used to be the second best hoops conf but the addition of Penn St. has hurt them. They are still better than the A10 but the addition of NE is going to hurt.

The Pac 10 just took the perinial hoops doormat from the Big 12 and Utah has not been what it was since Majerus left. It definitely got worse and the A10 could close the gap. I will disagree that the A10 was ahead of the Pac 10 - you can't base it off of 1-year rpi when the A10 was at its best and the Pac 10 was at its worst. Don't count on UCLA to continue the down period - they are too much of a perenial hoops power. And they don't have Fordham in their conf. Still though, the Pac 10 is nothing to right home about now that they have these 2 programs and some of there other teams are struggling.

On the MWC, I am not sure Utah is that much better than Boise St. although the rpi from last year may have been that much different. They do have a little bit more name to the program though.

If Duq can continue to be better than they were historically and the Bonnies can continue to rebound from the mess that occured several years ago, it will really help the A10 in terms of rpi.

The Pac 10 does have some power programs that will get better, but they've also added a couple of dogs that might netralize that to a certain extent. Don't forget that the A10 has a few programs that are on the rise.

[kshoe]

The Pac 10 does have some power programs that will get better, but they've also added a couple of dogs that might netralize that to a certain extent. Don't forget that the A10 has a few programs that are on the rise.

I wouldn't call Utah a dog. They had a bad year last year but were a 5 seed in the tourney the year before....

I wrote this a couple days ago and it touches on how good the Big 12 will be. It also touches on how scheduling likely got harder for us with the remaining Big 12 teams.

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19258

[thetorch]

Utah is up and down as a program. Colorado is horrible.

Still the Pac 10 had 7 teams with 20 wins last year. Not too shabby for a down year.

I don't think the A-10 can aspire to be better than a particular BCS conference. We should strive to be the 5th best year in year out and hope for down years from one BCS conference every season.

[kshoe]

Utah is up and down as a program. Colorado is horrible.

Still the Pac 10 had 7 teams with 20 wins last year. Not too shabby for a down year.

I don't think the A-10 can aspire to be better than a particular BCS conference. We should strive to be the 5th best year in year out and hope for down years from one BCS conference every season.

You mean 7th best?

[kevinfootes]

I wouldn't call Utah a dog. They had a bad year last year but were a 5 seed in the tourney the year before....

I wrote this a couple days ago and it touches on how good the Big 12 will be. It also touches on how scheduling likely got harder for us with the remaining Big 12 teams.

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19258

"dog" might be an overstatement for Utah, but they haven't been a great program either.

As I've posted on here, the Pac 10 gets a couple of decent tv markets but did little to improve the overall stature of the league outside of getting a championship game for football.

[Archy McNally]

You are right - Utah has been up and down over the last 5 years. Maybe being in the Pac 10 can help them get back above Ut St and BYU again.

[bk18]

Does anyone see the events thus far as being anything other than positive for SLU and the A10?

The RPI changes aren't going to make that big of a difference in the long term. I would consider the changes neutral instead of positive. I'd like to see SLU in a conference with more TV coverage.

Being on TV is a good marketing avenue for the University and offers a good amount of revenue. It's pretty sad how few people know SLU even exists. Frequently I tell people I go to Saint Louis University and then they say where is that and I just say it's about 3 miles west of the arch in between Lindell and Laclede St. I think the Billiken would really catch on to the public if we got more media coverage. The university really needs more national attention to help application numbers increase.

I think the arena and the addition of Majerus are a good first step. But I don't think there will be an A-10 network ever unless there is football. Maybe the conference could look into a very strong contract with HDNET. I'd like to see the local channels also increase the number of games they cover.

[billiken_roy]

The RPI changes aren't going to make that big of a difference in the long term. I would consider the changes neutral instead of positive. I'd like to see SLU in a conference with more TV coverage.

i dont pretend to be a math genius, but if the conference goes from only playing 17 conference games, to now playing 18 which means they each likely dump one "buy game". second, they each drop 2 of the worst rpi conference teams which some teams were playing 4 games against and instead will now substitute 4 in conference games with likely tougher rpi games, there seems like there would be no way their indivdual and big 12/10 conference rpi wouldnt significantly increase. could you document your neutral? thanks in advance.

[Hawk]

i dont pretend to be a math genius, but if the conference goes from only playing 17 conference games, to now playing 18 which means they each likely dump one "buy game". second, they each drop 2 of the worst rpi conference teams which some teams were playing 4 games against and instead will now substitute 4 in conference games with likely tougher rpi games, there seems like there would be no way their indivdual and big 12/10 conference rpi wouldnt significantly increase. could you document your neutral? thanks in advance.

According to Pomeroy, if the new Big 12 had been in existence this year (so, without Neb and CU) the conference would have had the highest RPI since 2004 ACC. I think that's pretty telling.

[strozier]

According to Pomeroy, if the new Big 12 had been in existence this year (so, without Neb and CU) the conference would have had the highest RPI since 2004 ACC. I think that's pretty telling.

Who does Majerus root for in a Utah-USC matchup?

[kevinfootes]

The RPI changes aren't going to make that big of a difference in the long term. I would consider the changes neutral instead of positive. I'd like to see SLU in a conference with more TV coverage.

Being on TV is a good marketing avenue for the University and offers a good amount of revenue. It's pretty sad how few people know SLU even exists. Frequently I tell people I go to Saint Louis University and then they say where is that and I just say it's about 3 miles west of the arch in between Lindell and Laclede St. I think the Billiken would really catch on to the public if we got more media coverage. The university really needs more national attention to help application numbers increase.

I think the arena and the addition of Majerus are a good first step. But I don't think there will be an A-10 network ever unless there is football. Maybe the conference could look into a very strong contract with HDNET. I'd like to see the local channels also increase the number of games they cover.

How is this different than most other teams in the country?

[kshoe]

i dont pretend to be a math genius, but if the conference goes from only playing 17 conference games, to now playing 18 which means they each likely dump one "buy game". second, they each drop 2 of the worst rpi conference teams which some teams were playing 4 games against and instead will now substitute 4 in conference games with likely tougher rpi games, there seems like there would be no way their indivdual and big 12/10 conference rpi wouldnt significantly increase. could you document your neutral? thanks in advance.

I'm not BK18 but I'll clarify for him.

He was responding to Foote's comment that "Does anyone see the events thus far as being anything other than positive for SLU and the A10?" Footes was arguing that the Pac 10 and MWC should be marginally weaker because they now have weaker basketball teams based on last year's RPI. BK18 seemed to be pointing out that the effect on those two conferences seems fairly minimal and it won't largely affect the A-10. When you look at it from SLU and the A-10s perspective it also seems neutral to me. The only real positive from the A-10's perspective is that the Big East hasn't imploded yet as any implosion will likely have a serious impact on the A-10 (i.e. the best teams will be poached). Also, assuming they A-10 can regularly be better than the Pac-10 when we were virtually the same as them last year during one of our better years and their worst year seems far fetched to me.

p.s. the Big 12 currently plays a 16 game schedule, not 17.

To Hawk, I'd be wary of simply analyzing conference RPIs by just knocking off the two bottom teams. I remember back when CUSA formed from the Great Midwest and Metro conferences it was touted as the 3rd best RPI the previous year. Largely that was a result of knocking off the bottom RPI teams from each league and never resulted in anything near a 3rd best overall rating going forward. Put another way, somebody has to lose those games that Colorado and Nebraska previously lost during the conference season so the RPI won't increase as dramatically as it may seem. That being said, that will be a really good basketball conference (not that it wasn't already).

[bk18]

Who does Majerus root for in a Utah-USC matchup?

Majerus likes Utah more than any other place. Majerus would take Utah over his alma mater Marquette. He always talks about Utah.

[cheeseman]

Who does Majerus root for in a Utah-USC matchup?

Technically he was the coach at USC but he never coached a game or a player so why would he have any feelings for USC?

[kevinfootes]

I'm not BK18 but I'll clarify for him.

He was responding to Foote's comment that "Does anyone see the events thus far as being anything other than positive for SLU and the A10?" Footes was arguing that the Pac 10 and MWC should be marginally weaker because they now have weaker basketball teams based on last year's RPI. BK18 seemed to be pointing out that the effect on those two conferences seems fairly minimal and it won't largely affect the A-10. When you look at it from SLU and the A-10s perspective it also seems neutral to me. The only real positive from the A-10's perspective is that the Big East hasn't imploded yet as any implosion will likely have a serious impact on the A-10 (i.e. the best teams will be poached). Also, assuming they A-10 can regularly be better than the Pac-10 when we were virtually the same as them last year during one of our better years and their worst year seems far fetched to me.

p.s. the Big 12 currently plays a 16 game schedule, not 17.

To Hawk, I'd be wary of simply analyzing conference RPIs by just knocking off the two bottom teams. I remember back when CUSA formed from the Great Midwest and Metro conferences it was touted as the 3rd best RPI the previous year. Largely that was a result of knocking off the bottom RPI teams from each league and never resulted in anything near a 3rd best overall rating going forward. Put another way, somebody has to lose those games that Colorado and Nebraska previously lost during the conference season so the RPI won't increase as dramatically as it may seem. That being said, that will be a really good basketball conference (not that it wasn't already).

A couple of things here. Colorado is a weak basketball teams based on the past few decades of poor play, not just last year's rpi. Utah is an up and down team (currently down). Short of the time the RM was there, they haven't been a great program. I don't think I posted anything about the A10 being "regularly" better than the pac 10. Please show me otherwise. They were better last year and can stay better this year. The a10 was farther ahead of the pac 10 in rpi than the pac 10 was ahead of the next conference, the mvc. Also, adding a traditionally bad team shouldn't help the Big 10.

The mountain west should be weaker with Boise St.

I wasn't trying to imply that things would be significantly better for SLU, but they are better than 2 weeks ago.

[kshoe]

A couple of things here. Colorado is a weak basketball teams based on the past few decades of poor play, not just last year's rpi. Utah is an up and down team (currently down). Short of the time the RM was there, they haven't been a great program. I don't think I posted anything about the A10 being "regularly" better than the pac 10. Please show me otherwise. They were better last year and can stay better this year. The a10 was farther ahead of the pac 10 in rpi than the pac 10 was ahead of the next conference, the mvc. Also, adding a traditionally bad team shouldn't help the Big 10.

The mountain west should be weaker with Boise St.

I wasn't trying to imply that things would be significantly better for SLU, but they are better than 2 weeks ago.

I don't think things are any better or worse than two weeks ago for SLU. They are the same in my opinion. I also don't really see how things are better from the A-10's perspective since a couple minor teams changed conferences. Does it really matter if the A-10 is ranked the 7th, or 8th best conference or does it matter how many teams the A-10 is able to get in the NCAA tourney? Personally, I think its the latter and most people seem to measure a conference's strength by how many teams make and how many games they win in the dance. Its hard for me to see how the opportunities to make the dance have improved for the A-10 based on these moves.

[kevinfootes]

I don't think things are any better or worse than two weeks ago for SLU. They are the same in my opinion. I also don't really see how things are better from the A-10's perspective since a couple minor teams changed conferences. Does it really matter if the A-10 is ranked the 7th, or 8th best conference or does it matter how many teams the A-10 is able to get in the NCAA tourney? Personally, I think its the latter and most people seem to measure a conference's strength by how many teams make and how many games they win in the dance. Its hard for me to see how the opportunities to make the dance have improved for the A-10 based on these moves.

Our conference made some gains last season. What matters, of course, is how many teams get bids to the big dance. If a conference establishes itself as being solid rpi-wise, it can only help to get the extra bid.

It's okay if you don't agree.

[cheeseman]

I don't think things are any better or worse than two weeks ago for SLU. They are the same in my opinion. I also don't really see how things are better from the A-10's perspective since a couple minor teams changed conferences. Does it really matter if the A-10 is ranked the 7th, or 8th best conference or does it matter how many teams the A-10 is able to get in the NCAA tourney? Personally, I think its the latter and most people seem to measure a conference's strength by how many teams make and how many games they win in the dance. Its hard for me to see how the opportunities to make the dance have improved for the A-10 based on these moves.

One might say that you can not have one without the other. The higher ranking your conference is the better chance there is you will get more teams in the tourney.