Missouri Valley - Mountain West Challenge

[billiken_roy]

that was good. SillyBilly is indeed silly and witty also. Oops, I forgot funny. Maybe he/she should change their screen name to funnywittysillybilly

any chance you can tell us if there are other boards you post on, I'd hate to miss out on any of your funny, witty, silly banter Billy.

actually it was an extremely informational post by funnywittysillybilly because i truly didnt know the names of all the area community colleges. so maybe it should be funnywittysillyyetinformationalbilly.

[courtside]

I don't know if last night counted but Mark Wright recently mentioned that 9 of the last 13 games were to be telvised; I was not happy to hear 5 of the nine would be home games as I prefer we sell tickets rather than TV audiences at home

This mentality doesn't work. It hasn't worked in other sports and it won't work for SLU either. I like to call it the Bill Wirtz Chicago Blackhawk mentality. And he had a much stronger fan base than SLU. SLU needs to build demand. If people don't ever get to see the team play, especially on tv at home, to see the home atmosphere, new building, more likely to win at home, etc..they are less likely to attend a game. If they are less likely to attend one game, they are less likely to come back to another one. Being inclusive is what wins, what brings success, as opposed to the opposite. In order to build a long-term fan base, SLU's men's basketball program needs every exposure opportunity it can get.

[kshoe]

This mentality doesn't work. It hasn't worked in other sports and it won't work for SLU either. I like to call it the Bill Wirtz Chicago Blackhawk mentality. And he had a much stronger fan base than SLU. SLU needs to build demand. If people don't ever get to see the team play, especially on tv at home, to see the home atmosphere, new building, more likely to win at home, etc..they are less likely to attend a game. If they are less likely to attend one game, they are less likely to come back to another one. Being inclusive is what wins, what brings success, as opposed to the opposite. In order to build a long-term fan base, SLU's men's basketball program needs every exposure opportunity it can get.

Agreed. All road games should be televised and as many home games as possible should be televised. If I was forced to to make a decision between and road and home game, I'll take the road. But home games should be too, especially the bigger games that will have a crowded arena.

[courtside]

It would cost too much for Marquette and DePaul to leave the Big East. In the aftermath of the shuffling (ahem: realignment), I believe most of the affected conferences established exorbitant penalties for leaving the conference (and I'm certain the Big East did), and this proposed new conference wouldn't have anything to offer the schools to offset their losses. They'll stay in the Big East until the conference implodes.

Marquette has no desire to go anywhere else.

Let's see, only the ACC's $40 million tv deal is higher than the current Big East package.

All 144 Big East Conference games are televised this year for the 2nd straight year, all produced by CBS or ESPN networks. The Big East Network covers 35% of the country, the largest of any conference. 7 of the league's top 12 team's are in the nation's largest markets. Practically all of Marquette's games as an example, of many in the league are televised.

Marquette has virtually sold out the rest of its home schedule, 19k or so per game. Getting to bring in the likes of Louisville, Pitt, Georgetown, ND, Villanova, Syracuse, UConn, WVU, etc.. every year or every other year is pretty appealing. 8-9 top 25 conference teams currently.

Marquette has never finished worse than 5th in the 16 team league since joining.

Merchandise sales are very high at Marquette, as are ticket sales, and other revenue streams. Marquette's ticket demand would be a great point to make in this thread to goslu68. All Marquette games are televised, yet ticket demand is through the roof and has been for sometime. Plenty go in person, and plenty more watch on tv.

Their current team is top 15 caliber. Their recruiting class is considered a top 5 National class for next year.

They have state of the art basketball, weight, health and academic training facilities.

They have no desire to go anywhere.

[Clock_Tower]

Marquette has no desire to go anywhere else.

Let's see, only the ACC's $40 million tv deal is higher than the current Big East package.

All 144 Big East Conference games are televised this year for the 2nd straight year, all produced by CBS or ESPN networks. The Big East Network covers 35% of the country, the largest of any conference. 7 of the league's top 12 team's are in the nation's largest markets. Practically all of Marquette's games as an example, of many in the league are televised.

Marquette has virtually sold out the rest of its home schedule, 19k or so per game. Getting to bring in the likes of Louisville, Pitt, Georgetown, ND, Villanova, Syracuse, UConn, WVU, etc.. every year or every other year is pretty appealing. 8-9 top 25 conference teams currently.

Marquette has never finished worse than 5th in the 16 team league since joining.

Merchandise sales are very high at Marquette, as are ticket sales, and other revenue streams. Marquette's ticket demand would be a great point to make in this thread to goslu68. All Marquette games are televised, yet ticket demand is through the roof and has been for sometime. Plenty go in person, and plenty more watch on tv.

Their current team is top 15 caliber. Their recruiting class is considered a top 5 National class for next year.

They have state of the art basketball, weight, health and academic training facilities.

They have no desire to go anywhere.

Courtside. Believe you are correct and make great points. Possibly, Marquette will thrive in the Big East. As with all conferences, though, OVER TIME, I just don't think there is enough room for these 16 schools and their big egos. Every conference has winners and losers. Right now, the Big East is loaded, they refuse to play enough (IMO) quality OOC because their conference is so tough (and I don't blame them) but believe the NCAA will not continue to allow so many Big East teams into the Tourney year after year. PAC 10, Big 12, SEC and Big 10 are too powerful. 9 to 10 teams each year means that the other BCS conference will lose or that the mid-majors will lose - or most likely - that both the other BCS conferences AND the mid-majors will lose. If the Big East "only" gets say 6 teams in the Tourney each year, dissention will overtake the big egos in the Big East.

[billiken_roy]

Courtside. Believe you are correct and make great points. Possibly, Marquette will thrive in the Big East. As with all conferences, though, OVER TIME, I just don't think there is enough room for these 16 schools and their big egos. Every conference has winners and losers. Right now, the Big East is loaded, they refuse to play enough (IMO) quality OOC because their conference is so tough (and I don't blame them) but believe the NCAA will not continue to allow so many Big East teams into the Tourney year after year. PAC 10, Big 12, SEC and Big 10 are too powerful. 9 to 10 teams each year means that the other BCS conference will lose or that the mid-majors will lose - or most likely - that both the other BCS conferences AND the mid-majors will lose. If the Big East "only" gets say 6 teams in the Tourney each year, dissention will overtake the big egos in the Big East.

i believe where the split will start is when big east football begins to consistently have multiple ranked football teams that are challenging for the national championship and thus the perception will grow that because of the football prowess the overall conference gains. and even though they might not split football money evenly or at all (i have no idea what that reality is) they will insist that the likes of marquette or depaul is benefitting greatly from the football exposure and gaining overall wealth and thus basketball power they wouldnt get if they werent in the big east and not contributing as much because they dont have football too.

[courtside]

Courtside. Believe you are correct and make great points. Possibly, Marquette will thrive in the Big East. As with all conferences, though, OVER TIME, I just don't think there is enough room for these 16 schools and their big egos. Every conference has winners and losers. Right now, the Big East is loaded, they refuse to play enough (IMO) quality OOC because their conference is so tough (and I don't blame them) but believe the NCAA will not continue to allow so many Big East teams into the Tourney year after year. PAC 10, Big 12, SEC and Big 10 are too powerful. 9 to 10 teams each year means that the other BCS conference will lose or that the mid-majors will lose - or most likely - that both the other BCS conferences AND the mid-majors will lose. If the Big East "only" gets say 6 teams in the Tourney each year, dissention will overtake the big egos in the Big East.

My point to the original post is that Marquette for example, has no interest in leaving the Big East conference, unless it were ever put into a situation where it had to do so. The pipe dream of just plucking them or whomever for example, is that, a pipe dream. If and when things change for the league, then that's different.

The Big East has been in the 8-9 range for NCAA bids for a few years now, and that'll continue. Currently the Big East has 9 teams in the RPI top 50 and a 10th that will compete for an at large with top end mid-majors.

Look at the MVC in the past couple of years, ....take this year. Only Northern Iowa and Creighton have wins over BCS conference schools, and they each have one, Auburn for NIU, and DePaul for Creighton. The strength of schedule non-conference for Illinois State for example was in the 300's, which kills them. The Big East went to an 18 game schedule from the previous 16, and those 10-8 schools will improve their chances to dance. The MVC for example, has used the model of not playing super bad bottom level schools, while trying to get wins against lower level BCS schools for the most part, because even those schools will pull off an upset or two in the league. And, they can say look at our shiny conference record because even though our league is small in size, we play an 18 game conference schedule. The schools this season with the better schedule strength for the MVC, didn't win enough games, SIU, Wichita St. etc.. Bids dropped dramatically for the MVC last year and they will again this year.

We'll see how it all plays out. But the Big East has already established itself as a conference that is going to get more teams in due to its size and success.

[courtside]

i believe where the split will start is when big east football begins to consistently have multiple ranked football teams that are challenging for the national championship and thus the perception will grow that because of the football prowess the overall conference gains. and even though they might not split football money evenly or at all (i have no idea what that reality is) they will insist that the likes of marquette or depaul is benefitting greatly from the football exposure and gaining overall wealth and thus basketball power they wouldnt get if they werent in the big east and not contributing as much because they dont have football too.

The non-football schools receive zero football money. The Big East as a league also gets a lot of help and exposure from the likes of the basketball successes and traditions of non-football places like Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, etc..

[billiken_roy]

The non-football schools receive zero football money. The Big East as a league also gets a lot of help and exposure from the likes of the basketball successes and traditions of non-football places like Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, etc..

the basketball successes are a given. the football improvement is future. that is why i say that would change the conference perception of the haves and have nots of each other from what it is now.

[Clock_Tower]

My point to the original post is that Marquette for example, has no interest in leaving the Big East conference, unless it were ever put into a situation where it had to do so. The pipe dream of just plucking them or whomever for example, is that, a pipe dream. If and when things change for the league, then that's different.

The Big East has been in the 8-9 range for NCAA bids for a few years now, and that'll continue. Currently the Big East has 9 teams in the RPI top 50 and a 10th that will compete for an at large with top end mid-majors.

Look at the MVC in the past couple of years, ....take this year. Only Northern Iowa and Creighton have wins over BCS conference schools, and they each have one, Auburn for NIU, and DePaul for Creighton. The strength of schedule non-conference for Illinois State for example was in the 300's, which kills them. The Big East went to an 18 game schedule from the previous 16, and those 10-8 schools will improve their chances to dance. The MVC for example, has used the model of not playing super bad bottom level schools, while trying to get wins against lower level BCS schools for the most part, because even those schools will pull off an upset or two in the league. And, they can say look at our shiny conference record because even though our league is small in size, we play an 18 game conference schedule. The schools this season with the better schedule strength for the MVC, didn't win enough games, SIU, Wichita St. etc.. Bids dropped dramatically for the MVC last year and they will again this year.

We'll see how it all plays out. But the Big East has already established itself as a conference that is going to get more teams in due to its size and success.

Courtside. I agree with you as to Marquette and also that the current depth of the Big East blows away (even at 10th) the top teams in the Valley. If, however, the Big East drops a bit and gets only 7 to 8 schools for awhile, what will still be much more than the ACC has gotten in recent years. Recall that the ACC has often received only 4 bids (albeit 4 of the better teams in the Tourney with good seedings), but I just think that the luster will come off the new Big East - just a bit - and the ACC, Big 10, Big 12 and SEC will push hard to get 5 instead of 4 or 6 instead of 5. Taking 1 or 2 away from the Valley, A10, Colonial is the first and easy part. The fighting, though, will come IMO.

Also, getting to the Tourney is great but the top Big East schools expect/demand more. Not finishing in the top half of your conference - even the Big East - will put even more pressure on coaches and their programs. Marquette has done quite well this year - including league play - and thus their loss to rival Dayton will not be the kiss of death. In other years, such a game may likely be it.