STLHI

[stlsfinest]

This has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's just my opinion of who is the slightly better player. By the time Nate and some of the scouting "experts" got around to interviewing Drew, he had already narrowed his list to about 4 schools. We followed Drew's recruitment closely throughout the Fall. Let's not start judging talent by offers and signings again (JH lol). Hanlen had 10+ offers and I'm not going to go bother him just to ask about every school that extended an offer. Cotto is a VERY good player, but I think he was a major surprise because of the way he just popped up over at Alton. There is no doubt that the move to the Midwest helped. As soon as Illinois asked him to consider a preferred walk-on deal, he suddenly took on this high major status in the eyes of some local prep fans. I really only remember a legit offer from LaSalle (probably because of RC's academic issues), which featured a former AAU coach of his. In the same way Cotto "heard" from Illinois, Purdue, etc., Hanlen "heard" from Missouri, Miami and some other high majors. I can only imagine the interest Hanlen would have received if he had waited until the Spring. His stock would've shot up after he led his team to state with torn ligaments in his ankle.

Hanlen signed in the early period before Nate & St. Louis ever saw Cotto play. RC was an all-state player down in Florida, but he wasn't a heavily recruited player despite playing for Puerto Rico in a Nike event. What if Cotto had come to St. Louis already committed to a program like LaSalle? Would there be the same excitement? It wouldn't make him less of a player, but a nice percentage of the board wouldn't care about him because he wasn't on SLU's radar.

And I don't agree with the idea that Kramer is a better player/pg than Hanlen. Soderberg is still an undersized shooting guard who had limited D1 options heading into the Spring. He was probably headed to Tulsa before the loss of Moosman led to an opening over at Miami OH.

Again, this shouldn't be a big issue. Both players are great, but I think SLU fans would've been just as excited (maybe even more excited) with Hanlen.

[slufanskip]

This has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's just my opinion of who is the slightly better player. By the time Nate and some of the scouting "experts" got around to interviewing Drew, he had already narrowed his list to about 4 schools. We followed Drew's recruitment closely throughout the Fall. Let's not start judging talent by offers and signings again (JH lol). Hanlen had 10+ offers and I'm not going to go bother him just to ask about every school that extended an offer. Cotto is a VERY good player, but I think he was a major surprise because of the way he just popped up over at Alton. There is no doubt that the move to the Midwest helped. As soon as Illinois asked him to consider a preferred walk-on deal, he suddenly took on this high major status in the eyes of some local prep fans. I really only remember a legit offer from LaSalle (probably because of RC's academic issues), which featured a former AAU coach of his. In the same way Cotto "heard" from Illinois, Purdue, etc., Hanlen "heard" from Missouri, Miami and some other high majors. I can only imagine the interest Hanlen would have received if he had waited until the Spring. His stock would've shot up after he led his team to state with torn ligaments in his ankle.

Hanlen signed in the early period before Nate & St. Louis ever saw Cotto play. RC was an all-state player down in Florida, but he wasn't a heavily recruited player despite playing for Puerto Rico in a Nike event. What if Cotto had come to St. Louis already committed to a program like LaSalle? Would there be the same excitement? It wouldn't make him less of a player, but a nice percentage of the board wouldn't care about him because he wasn't on SLU's radar.

And I don't agree with the idea that Kramer is a better player/pg than Hanlen. Soderberg is still an undersized shooting guard who had limited D1 options heading into the Spring. He was probably headed to Tulsa before the loss of Moosman led to an opening over at Miami OH.

Again, this shouldn't be a big issue. Both players are great, but I think SLU fans would've been just as excited (maybe even more excited) with Hanlen.

JH played a year of JC. Lets not now decide that every kid that only gets recruited by small schools should be playing for Duke had they not been overlooked.

What does when Nate saw Ruben have to do with how good he is or with who was recruiting him?

[Guest BillikenReport]

Since you referenced me a couple times in your post, I should probably reply to this.

I hope you realize I've followed Drew's recruiting for his entire high school career. I've watched him play even before he went to Webster Groves. If I remember correctly, his first scholarship offer came from Western Illinois when he was a sophomore. I think Eastern Illinois and similar schools came in right after that.

Drew is a nice player and impressed a lot of colleges with his play with the Eagles. He had a lot more schools interested in him than Kramer did, in part because of Brad's situation at SLU (doesn't make sense for schools to recruit a kid whose dad is a college coach), Kramer not playing on the summer circuit and his being an undersized shooting guard more than a true point guard. Drew is a true point guard.

Of course Cotto was a surprise because he popped up at Alton. Nobody in St. Louis would have known about him if he stayed in Miami and Saint Louis U. would have never recruited him. He would have had a lot more recruiting attention if schools weren't concerned with his academic situation. Last I heard, he's still not cleared with the NCAA. So the academic situation is still not resolved, even though a lot of people think it will be.

I think Hanlen could play at SLU and do well, but I don't think he'd get the minutes there that he would somewhere else, like Belmont. I heard Majerus looked at him and decided he wasn't a good fit. If Hanlen was still available in the spring, when SLU had a couple more offers come up, I wouldn't have been surprised if he received an offer. But considering Mitchell was one of the first players for Majerus to target, that's the player the coach wants to run his team.

In Cotto, you have a player who's a little bit bigger and a more explosive scorer than Hanlen who also has the experience of playing international-type competition. I think he could start at shooting guard as a sophomore at SLU, where I view Hanlen as a guy who would be a very good backup point guard for a couple years. Some of their skills are similar, but Cotto is a better fit for the Billikens than Hanlen would have been.

[STL Hoops Insider]

P,V,B,S,

Majerus scouted Hanlen but didn't think he was worthy of a scholarship offer. A couple months later, Majerus offered Cotto.

Hanlen committed in September, two months before Cotto ever played a game for Alton. I dont think you were trying to imply that he passed on Hanlen for Cotto, because thats not what happened. I just dont want anyone else to get that idea. We dont know what would've happened if Hanlen hadn't committed. Hanlen and Cotto, great players. You cant really make an argument against either. In some classes they would've been the top two talents. This was a remarkable class and I'm just glad I made it out to a lot of games this year to witness a level of talent we may not see for a while.

[mcglotherirvin]

i think he passed on hanlen for kwamain mitchell. i'd still like to hear who the 10 plus schools were that offered hanlen since scout only reports 4, all low level d1.

Hanlen committed in September, two months before Cotto ever played a game for Alton. I dont think you were trying to imply that he passed on Hanlen for Cotto, because thats not what happened. I just dont want anyone else to get that idea. We dont know what would've happened if Hanlen hadn't committed. Hanlen and Cotto, great players. You cant really make an argument against either. In some classes they would've been the top two talents. This was a remarkable class and I'm just glad I made it out to a lot of games this year to witness a level of talent we may not see for a while.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Hanlen committed in September, two months before Cotto ever played a game for Alton. I dont think you were trying to imply that he passed on Hanlen for Cotto, because thats not what happened. I just dont want anyone else to get that idea.

My point was Majerus evaluated Hanlen and did not offer him a scholarship. Later, he evaluated Cotto and offered him a scholarship.

[STL Hoops Insider]

My point was Majerus evaluated Hanlen and did not offer him a scholarship. Later, he evaluated Cotto and offered him a scholarship.

You're a writer and you can understand how people might take that statement. Majerus never saw Hanlen play in a high school game.

[STL Hoops Insider]

i think he passed on hanlen for kwamain mitchell. i'd still like to hear who the 10 plus schools were that offered hanlen since scout only reports 4, all low level d1.

Well, I'm sure he didnt call into scout.com to make sure they put a check next to each school he had an offer from. You really think that I just make this stuff up to support my opinions? Its not worth lying over. Drew named many of those offers for us last fall and if you check the archives, Nate also has an article where Hanlen mentions having at least 10 offers. Do you have a subscription or did you just check the free stuff?

[Guest BillikenReport]

You're a writer and you can understand how people might take that statement. Majerus never saw Hanlen play in a high school game.

Majerus probably never saw Kwamain Mitchell, Brett Thompson, Willie Reed, Brian Conklin and Femi John play in high school games before offering them scholarships.

[Clock_Tower]

This has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's just my opinion of who is the slightly better player. By the time Nate and some of the scouting "experts" got around to interviewing Drew, he had already narrowed his list to about 4 schools. We followed Drew's recruitment closely throughout the Fall. Let's not start judging talent by offers and signings again (JH lol). Hanlen had 10+ offers and I'm not going to go bother him just to ask about every school that extended an offer. Cotto is a VERY good player, but I think he was a major surprise because of the way he just popped up over at Alton. There is no doubt that the move to the Midwest helped. As soon as Illinois asked him to consider a preferred walk-on deal, he suddenly took on this high major status in the eyes of some local prep fans. I really only remember a legit offer from LaSalle (probably because of RC's academic issues), which featured a former AAU coach of his. In the same way Cotto "heard" from Illinois, Purdue, etc., Hanlen "heard" from Missouri, Miami and some other high majors. I can only imagine the interest Hanlen would have received if he had waited until the Spring. His stock would've shot up after he led his team to state with torn ligaments in his ankle.

Hanlen signed in the early period before Nate & St. Louis ever saw Cotto play. RC was an all-state player down in Florida, but he wasn't a heavily recruited player despite playing for Puerto Rico in a Nike event. What if Cotto had come to St. Louis already committed to a program like LaSalle? Would there be the same excitement? It wouldn't make him less of a player, but a nice percentage of the board wouldn't care about him because he wasn't on SLU's radar.

And I don't agree with the idea that Kramer is a better player/pg than Hanlen. Soderberg is still an undersized shooting guard who had limited D1 options heading into the Spring. He was probably headed to Tulsa before the loss of Moosman led to an opening over at Miami OH.

Again, this shouldn't be a big issue. Both players are great, but I think SLU fans would've been just as excited (maybe even more excited) with Hanlen.

Finest. LOL? Not going to let you get away with "Let's not start judging talent by offers and signings again (JH lol)."

You're comparison of Hanlen with with J. Harrelson (JH) appears to fail in many respects. First, Hanlen was a member of the large school Missouri State Championship team - Webster Groves - after having been to the quarter-finals 2 years prior. St. Charles high school and JH had no such success - and w/o success - had no such attention, publicity, exposure, etc. Second, Hanlen apparently played alot of AAU ball - including for the top local AAU team - Eagles - whereas JH apparently did not. Both received "lower level" D-I offers early and both accepted early, but that's about the end of the comparisons.

The basis of the entire JH threads were that JH was big guy (SLU desperately needed big guys) right here in our backyard, that he was a true "diamond in the rough" because he did not draw the attention of the scouts because he played a for a smaller, non-basketball factory high school (not Vashon, McCluer, Borgia, DeSmet, CBC...) which did not have much high school success and because he did not play top level AAU. Unlike every other coach in America (except for SLU's former assistant and the then coach at WIU), Brad did have a reason to personally watch this local kid play (same team as his son Kramer) and that despite these personally observations, Brad passed on him and thereby made a poor basketball recruiting judgment. Right or wrong, that is the basis of the JH comparison.

The JH situation is not that all the scouts and recruiting services are often just flat-out wrong for guys who play for large high school teams who win State Championships and who play the top national competition by virtue of being on the top local AAU team.

Also, no you don't have to list the 10 schools you claim; however, once your called out on your statements, I believe you do if you want to maintain credibility.

[Cowboy]

The basis of the entire JH threads were that JH was big guy (SLU desperately needed big guys) right here in our backyard, that he was a true "diamond in the rough" because he did not draw the attention of the scouts because he played a for a smaller, non-basketball factory high school (not Vashon, McCluer, Borgia, DeSmet, CBC...) which did not have much high school success and because he did not play top level AAU. Unlike every other coach in America (except for SLU's former assistant and the then coach at WIU), Brad did have a reason to personally watch this local kid play (same team as his son Kramer) and that despite these personally observations, Brad passed on him and thereby made a poor basketball recruiting judgment. Right or wrong, that is the basis of the JH comparison.

Clock - Harrelson went to St Charles High - Kramer went to St Charles West

-St Charles did get to the final 4, but i believe that was after Harrelson signed with WILL

-but no doubt a big miss

[Clock_Tower]

Clock - Harrelson went to St Charles High - Kramer went to St Charles West

-St Charles did get to the final 4, but i believe that was after Harrelson signed with WILL

-but no doubt a big miss

Cowboy. You are correct. St. Charles West with Kramer has been the much better basketball program for years. Under the Robertson brothers, the team won the State Championship and often had good runs in the post-season. Recently with Kramer (and also before Kramer), West has been quite good and very well coached by Terry Holland. This, no doubt, was a reason why Brad and Kramer chose St. Charles West. In contrast, St. Charles High has not.

I re-read my post. Did not intend to suggest they played together on the same highschool team. I thought it was mentioned a few months ago that Kramer and JH had played together on a lower level AAU game. I could be wrong. Possibly, the comments were more along the lines that they played AGAINST each other and that Brad had the opportunity to see JH firsthand. Did not intend to imply that they played on the same highschool team. Had they done so, no doubt JH would have received alot of attention b/c of Hollander, West's past performances, the good teams prior to Kramer and those with Kramer.

In any event, I simply think it is "weak" to tout alot of guys with few offers or with "low level" offers, make them out to be great players, respond to posters with arguments like "how many times have you seen abc play" while acting some talent scout and then cite JH as an example.

And BTW, St. Charles High did place 4th (lost to Notre Dame in Semis and then lost third place game to Willard (60-49) while eventual champion Ruskin beat Notre Dame (Cape G.). These schools are not exactly household names. Before the season even started, JH had committed, of course, to WIU. My point: St. Charles High is a 4A school without prior success as opposed to a 5A school with perennial success/coach. For various reasons, JH was an unknown. Drew Hanlen was not.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Majerus probably never saw Kwamain Mitchell, Brett Thompson, Willie Reed, Brian Conklin and Femi John play in high school games before offering them scholarships.

You missed my point. Never mind.