East Side vs. Vashon

[Jalensdad2002]

If you missed this game you possibly missed the game of the year.SLU recruit Tommie Liddell put on a 2nd half show against one of the top teams in the country. Dwayne Polk was everything he was hyped to be. Polk wasn't dominate offensively as Liddell who finished with 25 points on the night but his control of the game was masterful.

On the night no team was up more than 10 (East Side) but when you have East Side's coach that 10 point lead is the equivilant of 3 as it quickly dissolved in 1 minute.Tommie Liddell scored 14 4th quarter points but it wasn't enough as Vashon took an undeserved 62-61 victory. SLU is without a doubt getting the best player in the area in Tommie Liddell but they will be tasked with a monumental effort of developing his killer instinct. Question for Liddell. If you are good enough to have a 15(Belle-West) and 14 (Vashon) quarter point effort against 2 of the top teams in the area if not country, then surely you are good enough to average 4-8 points per quarter against these teams? What are you saving it for? Coach Soderberg be forewarned.

[Billikan]

I am really sorry that I missed the game. It sounds like it was very competitive and our young men did us proud.

I do not know how you were as a senior in high school but suffice it to say that many kids are not nearly as complete as they will be later with the proper guidance. Personally, the change in my intensity and dedication between senior year in high school and my senior year in college was so dramatic that people did not even know I was the same person.

It is not unusual for young men to need to develop their intensity and consistancy when they are just in high school. In fact, in my experience, it is very unusual for most college players to be complete in all respects and consistant in terms of effort and performance all of the time--much less a senior in high school.

Let's give him a year or two under Coach Brad and I would bet a bundle that he will be intense and play hard. he may never be an outwardly emotional guy but he will play hard and be a great part of our team. lets' be patient!!

[Jalensdad2002]

That's the point. As a freshman entering high school Tommie Liddell was a much better ball player than I as a senior in high school. I have watched him since his 8th grade and I'm still waiting to see Tommie Liddell take his game to the next level. To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required. There isn't a player in the area, possibly the state than can stay in front of him. His team took a 10 point lead in the 3rd Quarter with him contributing 2 points that quarter.He has a tendency to allow things to go from worse to bad before something clicks.Then he goes all out and perform. I guess there are worse things to say about a basketball player other than that he fails to dominate weaker opponents. Hopefully he will become a better player next year when he is challenged.

[3star_recruit]

East Side was doing just fine with Tommie just letting the game come to him. The only reason that the 10 point lead dissolved, as you alluded to, was because the coach kept letting the other guards bring up the ball against Vashon's full court-pressure instead of Tommie and they couldn't handle it.

Tommie is a point forward and a great one. If Brad tries to transform him into a 20 point a game scorer at the next level, he may regret it. That's not Tommie's mentality. Meyer is the scorer, Polk is the speed demon. They should all complement each other wonderfully.

[billiken_roy]

if vashon only beat east side by 1 point, then i guess that ends the question of who is the best area team(s). imo east side is maybe only the 5th best team on the east side as belleville west, centralia, carbondale and althoff are all better than east side imo.

btw, look at this war that kevin lisch and justin dentman had last night in carbondale.

http://prepsports3.stltoday.com/basketball...vent171617.shtm

if althoff beats centralia next saturday nite, there will be a three way tie between centralia, althoff and carbondale for hte south seven conference championship as each team held home court vs the others.

[billiken_roy]

a lot of the problem with not just tommie liddell but east side as a whole is the poor coaching plans that dennis brooks gives this team. i have never seen more talent wasted on a high school basketball team with the way dennis coaches the flyers.

[3star_recruit]

"if vashon only beat east side by 1 point, then i guess that ends the question of who is the best area team(s)."

No it doesn't. Vashon shot an uncharacteristic 8-23 from the line and 2-19 from three point range, Tommie played lights out, and Vashon still won. If Vashon had brought their "A" game instead of their "C" game, the Wolverines win this going away. Mater Dei isn't better than Althoff simply because they won the head-to-head matchup, are they?

[billiken_roy]

i wish west and vashon played. that is the game that needs to be played.

didn t think you'd remember that mater dei stumble. :-)

[courtside]

Can't beleive I am sticking up for Vashon but...but unless the teams play, can't make a judgement.

[Jalensdad2002]

That's a first, a coach regretting maximizing the full potential of a player. It's not that Liddell doesn't have the ability to be a 20+ scorer. He just lacks the resolve. I have read numerous qoutes in the paper by Liddell in which he states I don't like taking shots or I wanted to sneak up on a team by getting my teammates involved. When you have reached a certain level of notoriety you no longer have the luxury of surprising opponents. They already know what you have and if you don't go out and impose your will, you are in effect cheating your teammates. As Soderberg once said, "Sometimes you can be selfish by not shooting".

[Jalensdad2002]

East Side was doing fine, they had a 10 point lead in the game, and Tommie Liddell decided to allow his teammates to shine. Big mistake, if he had continued to play East Side could have possibly push the lead to 15-20 points. As the SLU Billikens showed Depaul no lead is a safe lead. Keep playing.I'm a firm believer in the adage of leaving it all on the court.

[Jalensdad2002]

>if vashon only beat east side by 1 point, then i guess that

>ends the question of who is the best area team(s). imo east

>side is maybe only the 5th best team on the east side as

>belleville west, centralia, carbondale and althoff are all

>better than east side imo

Not so fast Roy, although I believe West is the finest team in the area by no means would West defeat Vashon in a walk. Vashon has the perimeter players to match West and the advantage at the center spot in Muse. What's separating West and East Side is the toughness of McPeak. He simply dominates East Side's post players. Had East Side neutralized McPeak they win in a rout at West. On a side note I heard at least 2 Vashon fans say that if East Side is this good we don't want to see Belleville West. It brought a big smile to my face as I believe Illinois Prep B-Ball is superior to Missouri,although I believe Vashon being the rare exception in Missouri. Also in the game Dwayne Polk and Tommie Liddell got into a mild tussle when Liddell was being very aggressive with Polk. Polk forcefully slapped Liddell's hands off him and quickly realizing they will be teammates next year apologized and gave one another a hug. Dwayne Polk will be a steal for SLU. He has all his quickness back and during warmups caught an alley-oop. All his physical skills have returned. I saw him last year at Savvis and last night. His performance was light years ahead this year. He probably should have sat all of last year.

[3star_recruit]

Obviously, we define reaching one's full potential on the court differently. Paul Pressey, a great player that Tommie Liddell closely resembles, never averaged 20 ppg in college or the NBA. But I never remember anyone insinuating that Pressey was an underachiever.

[billiken_roy]

at the shootout, west played (and beat soundly) nationally ranked jackson lanier from mississippi. jackson has two all-americans on thier team, monta ellis, the reputed top junior in the country who came into that game averaging 32 points per game (jb jones held him to under 20 that day), and charles rhodes who has signed a loi to attend mississippi state and was averaging 25 points per game. sean mcpeak held him to 9 points and few if any rebounds. i.e. no way muse is an advantage in a game of vashon vs belleville west. muse might be 6-7 inches taller, but mcpeak is about 60 lbs of muscle stronger than muse and knows how to use it. it is far taller than his 6'3" or whatever he says he is.

[3star_recruit]

West lost to Carbondale, who has no beef on the inside.

[billiken_roy]

i wish i had seen that game. because i cant fathom how it happened. carbondale has zero bulk. the blackledge kid though had a pretty nice belleville east tourney and dentman was his usual dentman self.

[Jalensdad2002]

The beauty of Muse is not his offense but his defense and rebounding. He turned the tide vs East Side with his rebounding. West can be defeated with Price and JB Jones having superior games, but they are unbeatable if McPeak scores anywhere between 15-18 points. McPeak doesn't score 15-18 points on Muse. Muse is a shot blocker unlike Charles Rhodes who was a teammate of Liddell at the Nike Jamboree at SLU. Vashon made the mistake of getting in a running game with East Side. West knows better and controls the tempo of the game with their great half-court defense. Also West has a sizable advantage in their coaching staff.

[Jalensdad2002]

>Obviously, we define reaching one's full potential on the

>court differently. Paul Pressey, a great player that Tommie

>Liddell closely resembles, never averaged 20 ppg in college

>or the NBA. But I never remember anyone insinuating that

>Pressey was an underachiever.

You have got to be the only person to reference Paul Pressey in describing Liddell. I dare say Liddell has as much talent and skill as Shaun Livingston. The only difference being Livingston ability to impose his will on any given game. So yes we do have a difference of opinion.

[billiken_roy]

i like tommie as much as anyone, but i wont even think of tommie when talking about shaun livingston. i think livingston is close to making the jump straight to the nba. the only thing holding him back is the fact he is a little skinny.

[Jalensdad2002]

>i like tommie as much as anyone, but i wont even think of

>tommie when talking about shaun livingston. i think

>livingston is close to making the jump straight to the nba.

>the only thing holding him back is the fact he is a little

>skinny.

He's also still developing his jumpshot and isn't at this point a great defender of guards. Although that isn't much of a problem in today's NBA. He is NBA ready only due to the overall decline of the NBA. I look at him and Penny Hardaway at the same stage and frankly their is no comparison. Hardaway was far superior.

[aj_arete]

but I wasn't impressed with Liddell against Vashon. Don't get me wrong, he's supremely skilled, good defender and it doesn't hurt that he's left-handed. But he just doesn't seem to care. Why he never touched the ball in the last minute of every quarter is beyond me. I remember one time where he received the ball, he got rid of it like a hot potato. It's not how many points you score, it's when you score and in crunch time he didn't touch it once.

One other thing is why did East St. Louis take out #2 during that stretch where Vashon rattled them into multiple turnovers. Better yet, when Brooks saw the tide turning and East Side turning the ball over like crazy, why wasn't Liddell taking the ball up the court. By the way, I agreed that Liddell shouldn't have been the primary ballhandler. He had his hands full trying to keep up with Polk on the defensive end and played the whole game, I believe. However, it's inexcusable to not have your best ballhandler, playmaker and shooter not touch the ball late in the game.

[Jalensdad2002]

I don't know how you came away unimpressed, he did score 25 points and grabbed anywhere between 11 and 15 rebounds. He entered the game knowing that Vashon would come after him. His play does deserved some criticism. He made a costly turnover when he attempted an ill-advised cross court pass. He should have been handling the ball in the last minute as he proved to be the only one to break their press. #2 Williford Rogers fell in love with his dribbling and made some costly turnovers which led directly to some easy baskets for Vashon, he also kept running to the corner inviting the trapping defense.Liddell did score 14 4th quarter points but Vashon made a concerted effort to keep the ball out of his hands. Coach Brooks never adjusted. Coach Brooks in my opinion made the bone headed decision of the game when he did not call timeout when Hill missed the first of a one and one. Had he called timeout then he could have set up a play for the event Hill missed the 2nd. Which Hill did, Liddell grabbed the rebound had nothing but clear sailing when Brooks called timeout. With 7 seconds left Vashon converged on Liddell and East Side ended the game with a desperation 30 foot air ball. Brooks was simply outcoached.

[Jalensdad2002]

A cautionary tale to up and coming ball players, during pre-game warmups Vashon could be seen stretching and completing routine drills. Their 5'8-5'10inch guards were not seen bouncing the ball off the floor attempting to dunk. They were drilling on things that may actually arise during the game. While East Side was auditioning for their And 1 moment not one coach from East Side corrected their players, instead they were on their a** watching Vashon drilling. In the waning moments of the game #2 Williford Rogers had a semi-contested layup roll off the rim, the potential winning baskets blown. He was one of those players showcasing instead of preparing. Had he been working on his layups at game speed I have no doubts that he would have converted.

[Jalensdad2002]

>"if vashon only beat east side by 1 point, then i guess that

>ends the question of who is the best area team(s)."

>

>No it doesn't.If Vashon had brought

>their "A" game instead of their "C" game, the Wolverines win

>this going away.

I believe the Flyers had something to do with Vashon playing at a C-level.

[billiken_roy]

in wasnt at the game, but i have seen east side enough this year to know that liddell is the man on their team. that means he gets double and triple teamed, he gets the freshest and best defenders following him everywhere denying him the ball, he has someone pushing him away from every rebound. now couple that with the fact he is playing versus a nationally ranked vashon team, and arguably one of the one or two best teams in the st louis area, and he still dominates the statistical line and you arent impressed?

i must assume you were expecting michael jordan like highlights. if the flyers would have been playing lovejoy or venice high school with a 30 point win guaranteed before they even took the floor, you might have seen that, but to expect that versus vashon is crazy.

as to not touching the ball, who knows what dennis brooks is thinking. he has proven to me throughout the season to be one of the worst area high school coaching minds in the area. he does so little with so much talent it is scary.