billiken_roy Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 let me get this straight, according to the below link, st bonaventure will get probation, lose scholarships and be banned from post season because they had a welder on their basketball team. yet a different school currently being investigated that has admitted to numerous academic and recruiting issues, will get off with another hand slap? http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1739194 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 football team was hit with "lack of institutional control" a few days ago because Neuheisal bet on the NCAA tourney. But, hey, insiders in the know like Vanilla Gorilla say all is good out west. I've got to see it to believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 "admitted to numerous academic issues" When? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 >let me get this straight, according to the below link, st >bonaventure will get probation, lose scholarships and be >banned from post season because they had a welder on their >basketball team. yet a different school currently being >investigated that has admitted to numerous academic and >recruiting issues, will get off with another hand slap? > >http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1739194 It goes deeper than just having a welder on their team. It was the way in which he got on the team. One of the harshest charges that can be levied against a school is "lack of institutional control." In this case the St. Bona administration knowingly let an ineligible player participate (not sure if there was some forging of documents too). Plus, St. Bona did the honorable thing and owned up to their wrongdoing to get the penalties assessed now - the sooner they get his the sooner they can start digging out from this mess. The school you are referring to will probably not be cooperative with the NCAA and force a lenghty investigation before anything can be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 "The school you are referring to will probably not be cooperative with the NCAA and force a lenghty investigation before anything can be found." which team are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 That's typical Broy speak. He basically makes up his own facts and then repeats them over and over. The last I heard on the subject, MU was suppossedly cleared of academic problems. Now he says they've admitted to them. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 as we have discussed a million times, the fact missouri accepted clemons and pulley's sham transcripts is admittance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I believe Roy was referring to a school about 2 hours west of St. Louis.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 if you are discussing Mizzery. You don't have to be Columbo or a member of Miami CSI to know there is something rotten in the state of Quinmark, but watch these guys somehow come out smelling like a fri**ing rose. You have to remember you're not only tackling a college hoops program here, you're taking on the nation's biggest retailer. And to Cheesycow and White Chimp, facts are Q has had numerous "minor" violations which have all been explained away by him somehow being unconscious or too stupid to know the rules, so if you still believe they've done nothing wrong on the big stuff, i.e. promoted academic fraud and handed out paychecks to RC and others, then you've been brainwashed. You would have made great SS troopers. Here's hoping you goosestep your way into the NIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 that school has done nothing but cooperate, and any "lengthy investigation" is pretty much over with the results to be announced soon. Unless you're talking about Truman State? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Admittance in the eyes of you? Wow, guess I better give up on Mizzou basketball now that BILLIKENROY has found a reason to dislike them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 So say for instance someone steals 17 blow pops from a local convenience store, are we to automatically assume that he is then a rapist and child abuser? I guess you're right....that DOES make sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 you may think numerous illegal phone calls, visits and academic fraud are the equal of "blow pops". outside of boone county and their admirers, i dont think most of the rest of the college basketball world agrees. cameron dollar did nothing more than talk to josh heydelt during a no contact period and the university of washington self imposed probation, a tournament ban, dollar served a suspension with no pay and the staff restricted recruiting for a long time period. now why wouldnt all of the self reported illegal contacts that missouri made to clemons and conley be at least as bad? why wouldnt the academic fraud of accepting clemons and pulley's transcripts be as bad? isnt the knowledge of clemons sham academics akin to st bonaventure knowing a player is a welder by certificate only? you may think missouri has cooperated, but imo, the fact alden and above has not self penalized themselves for $nyder and $taff'$ obvious infractions, and the $taff literally has completely shut themselves off from the media except mike kelley, tells me that their cooperation is really no more than "deny, plead ignorance, and tell them as little as possible and make them prove we didnt do it." then hope like hell the ncaa doesnt have the guts to finish the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Many SLU fans have ***** envy when it comes to SOME aspects of the Mizzou program. I don't think the envy is necessary. SLU will get to the Final Four before Mizzou, even with the smoke surrounding the Missouri program that most feel indicates they've been cheating (ahem -- gotten caught cheating). I don't think Quin Snyder is a good enough coach to get Mizzou to the Final Four despite his questionable methods and judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 I think it's far too early to say which team will get to the final four, as I can't see it happening any time soon for either team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Sorry, thicks, there isn't one thing I envy about the Mizzery program. My bi**h is with the way they built it. I don't envy that anymore than I do the way Tark, D.Bliss, and many others have built theirs. I just hate to see them get away with what appears to be numerous and obvious wrongdoings. Granted the big ones are "alleged" to have happened, but if Mizzery gets out of the RC academic thing, which I guess they have, the NCAA itself has some tough questions to answer. Anyone who believes RC legitimately completed 24 hrs of course work in 8 weeks, and I don't care if they were in fingerpainting 101 and basketweaving 110, is smoking crack. Mizzery has yet to step up to the plate and do anything to Q-tip or any of his staff...nothing...not even a public reprimand or warning. That speaks volumes to me where this institutions head is...right up where the sun don't shine. Whereas Harvard's motto is veritas (truth), Mizzery's should be right out of a Few Good Men...."You can't handle the Truth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 You know roy, you can argue these points all you want- until the verdict comes down the fact of the matter is neither you nor I know anything about what the NCAA has found out. Until that day, you're going to believe that Quin raped, murdered, and pillaged small villages on his way to getting top recruits, and i will believe that the minor infractions amount to nothing. It's not worth discussing any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 So you think that John Sundvoldt, Steve Stipanovich, Doug Smith, Melvin Booker, Anthony Peeler and others were all illegally recruited and that Mizzou has always been a crooked program? It's ok that you hate Mizzou, but don't try to pretend it's because you have some sort of moral high ground. You (and many other SLU fans) have probably hated Mizzou since as long as you can remember, which is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 i didnt know about the rape and murder. thanks for the new info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Yeah, it wasn't so widely publicized as the pillaging of small villages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 while i dont think norm and dr detroit (daly) were angels either, they were choirboys in comparison to the shenanigans of $nyder, harvey and odom. for the record, i think gary pinkel is top notch and i find myself rooting for his success now. i would have never thought my support for any aspect of missouri was ever possible. but it goes to show that if you do things the right way, success is still possible and respect will undoubtably follow as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Football is definitely on the way back. Missouri's been a basketball school for about 30 years now, but I think it's gonna be a football school again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Broy has this guilty until proven innocent, and if your Missouri, you can't be proven innocent thing going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 Oh, another convert to the Walmart is taking over the world crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 As a Missouri fan, I'm willing to live with whatever the NCAA determines, be it severe probation or a slap on the wrist--I frankly have no idea what it will be and I've heard rumors both ways--but they are just rumors. You, on the other hand, have already prejudged the situation largely on your assumption of what you think happened and your general hatred toward MU. If, after months of investigating the situation, the NCAA determines that MU was guilty of major penalties and/or lack of institutional control, I'm sure the penalty will be severe. If they determine violations, if any, were minor, I will accept that as well and move on. I would suggest that you should accept the NCAA findings as well, whatever they ultimately will be. After all, the NCAA is the body charged with making and enforcing their own rules. If you think they have some predisposition to favor MU, you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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