ACE Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Those who are shocked by this have short memories. There are numerous recent examples of Sodie's players either getting trounced or have put up pi$$ poor offensive performances. With the exception of Barry, this still is a Sodie's Roster. Do people forget some of these results from recent years? Losses to: St. Bonnie, Duquesne, Oral Roberts, SEMO (a 16-point loss!!!), Austin Peay, LaSalle, scoring 33 points against A&M, scoring 37 and 39 points in two losses to St. Joe's!, losing at Gonzaga by 30, scoring 43 points in a 20 point loss to Houston, ending last season with a 60-40 loss to GW... We then lose Ian, have another non-descript recruiting class and this group is picking up where it left off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 and ace, no one is asking for the return of soderberg. we just want the coaches to get the players that we saw do things the last 2-3 years continue to perform at those levels and not achieve new lows. 3 head coaches together should be able to accomplish that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Ace, not only do folks on this board have short memories, but they have very little long-term vision. Rick is in this for the long haul. He's not trying to sacrifice building a system for years to come just so he can win a few games in the first two months of his first season. It is well noted that his system is one of the most complicated in college basketball. So why is it any surprise that there is a learning curve? Did everybody think that he was just going to wave a wand a magically turn this team into a tourney team after losing its primary offensive weapon? I know Kevin and Tommie were our best scorers last year, but everything in the offense revolved around Ian and all players on the floor benefited. It's been ridiculous to read this board the last few weeks. The lack of patience is amazing. Coaches don't often just come into programs and have immediate results. It's not too common. Just look at Michigan this year. They got the coach they wanted (Beilein) and are struggling more than we are. Hell, they just lost to Harvard. The point is that sometimes teams need to take a few steps backwards to be able to move forward. In the words of Norman Dale, "I'm going to break them down and build them back up." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Ace, not only do folks on this board have short memories, but they have very little long-term vision. Rick is in this for the long haul. He's not trying to sacrifice building a system for years to come just so he can win a few games in the first two months of his first season. It is well noted that his system is one of the most complicated in college basketball. So why is it any surprise that there is a learning curve? Did everybody think that he was just going to wave a wand a magically turn this team into a tourney team after losing its primary offensive weapon? I know Kevin and Tommie were our best scorers last year, but everything in the offense revolved around Ian and all players on the floor benefited. It's been ridiculous to read this board the last few weeks. The lack of patience is amazing. Coaches don't often just come into programs and have immediate results. It's not too common. Just look at Michigan this year. They got the coach they wanted (Beilein) and are struggling more than we are. Hell, they just lost to Harvard. The point is that sometimes teams need to take a few steps backwards to be able to move forward. In the words of Norman Dale, "I'm going to break them down and build them back up." again, if this is all about the future, then cut meyer, polk, husak, and browns minutes extensively and let's really rebuild. and you are right. i swear i am watching hoosiers. ray cant shoot before 6 passes and i am waiting to play a game with 4 players. if you remember though, until jimmy agreed to play, norman dale was going to be fired. luckily jimmy stepped in and won the state championship. where's our jimmy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 again, if this is all about the future, then cut meyer, polk, husak, and browns minutes extensively and let's really rebuild. and you are right. i swear i am watching hoosiers. ray cant shoot before 6 passes and i am waiting to play a game with 4 players. if you remember though, until jimmy agreed to play, norman dale was going to be fired. luckily jimmy stepped in and won the state championship. where's our jimmy? The 2008 recruiting class or Kevin Lisch once he finds his stroke. I hope he finds it quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcglotherirvin Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 you really can't listen to much of the whining that goes on on this board about Majerus. most of those critical of majerus were blindly loyal to BS and will never forgive the school for letting him go. i was a supporter of BS and think he was a good guy and a decent coach. at the same time, he never brought in players to compete consistently. we are now seeing how poor of a recruiter he was. i already posted info about bad losses before and the response was that those losses took place in BS's first year at SLU, which is simply inaccurate. we lost to austin peay, e. mich, and oral roberts in BS's third year as our head coach, the same year we had 9 wins. the next excuse was that frericks was out for the season and bryant's family member was shot. i know, its ridiculous. bryant and frericks were both there for those three horrid losses. i forgot about SEMO. i also forgot that we lost an exhibition game against EA sports one year. the same people whining about rm not playing mitchell, DM, and AM are the people who defended BS for not playing them (except Mitchell). the reason we have looked bad this year is because lisch and liddell aren't hitting shots. why? because they are being defended harder than ever. when vouyoukas was here, he took a lot of pressure off them. the whiners on here keep saying IV was no big loss because his totals were down last year. but i think his presence in itself was huge. his numbers were down, in part, because he was the target. now, lisch and liddell are the only targets and their numbers are down. i also think the whiners are downplaying the complexity of a new offense. its also hilarious to hear people second guessing play calling - never done by these people with BS, who not once had a play to run in the last 30 second and not once had an inbounds play for christ's sake. i'm not saying he was a bad coach, but if we are going to question RM why did we never question BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 First off, this isn't a team that's 1-8. We're 6-4 and still have a chance to salvage the season as it progresses. I truly believe this team will get better as we go along. Second, I'm not sure that our current group of underclassmen are the "wave of the future." The real wave is coming next year. Lastly, maybe we'll get the "return of the real Tommie" as our Jimmy. I'm not willing to say that this year is totally in the trash. But, I can't fathom why people don't see this as a work in progress. I always hate to remind people that in Brad's first year, we were 8-12 going into our game with Louisville. After that we rattled off 9 straight. Was Marquee's heroics part of it? Sure, but I think it had more to do with learning the new system being put in place. And as I already mentioned, Rick's system is very tough one to learn, but I think when we do, things will change for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 but if we are going to question RM why did we never question BS i always tell my kids, "dont worry if your coach is yelling at you. it is when he quits yelling at you that you should be worried because that means you have reached the point that is all he or she expects." i.e. i never had the expectations of soderberg that i do with majerus. i wanted to give soderberg the time to grow as a head coach because NOTHING had ever happened at slu before to indicate slu really was behind making the billikens a top program. i believed the only way we ever would become gonzaga was to make the 20 year climb gonzaga made by staying the course and promoting from within and letting the program grow over a sustained time. but if you ask me who wins if soderberg and his staff had the 1990 bulls and majerus and his staff had the 1990 bulls, i would tell you that majerus destroys soderberg. same thing here. i have higher expectations. so no i didnt question outloud soderberg because i didnt expect soderberg to do any better with what he had and what he could do as i do with majerus. again it is you that is making this debate, soderberg vs majerus. the folks questioning our team right now are not denying that they want majerus. we all want majerus. we just want majerus magic to kick in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I always hate to remind people that in Brad's first year, we were 8-12 going into our game with Louisville. After that we rattled off 9 straight. Was Marquee's heroics part of it? it was pretty much all of it. perry was spectacular in that stretch. just carried the team. my guess is that majerus would make perry pass to the wide open phillip hunt instead of that last drive to the basket vs louisville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzstldc Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Ace, not only do folks on this board have short memories, but they have very little long-term vision. Rick is in this for the long haul. He's not trying to sacrifice building a system for years to come just so he can win a few games in the first two months of his first season. It is well noted that his system is one of the most complicated in college basketball. So why is it any surprise that there is a learning curve? Did everybody think that he was just going to wave a wand a magically turn this team into a tourney team after losing its primary offensive weapon? I know Kevin and Tommie were our best scorers last year, but everything in the offense revolved around Ian and all players on the floor benefited. It's been ridiculous to read this board the last few weeks. The lack of patience is amazing. Coaches don't often just come into programs and have immediate results. It's not too common. Just look at Michigan this year. They got the coach they wanted (Beilein) and are struggling more than we are. Hell, they just lost to Harvard. The point is that sometimes teams need to take a few steps backwards to be able to move forward. In the words of Norman Dale, "I'm going to break them down and build them back up." Amen SShoe. I couldn't have said it any better myself. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 First off, this isn't a team that's 1-8. We're 6-4 and still have a chance to salvage the season as it progresses. I truly believe this team will get better as we go along. Second, I'm not sure that our current group of underclassmen are the "wave of the future." The real wave is coming next year. Lastly, maybe we'll get the "return of the real Tommie" as our Jimmy. I'm not willing to say that this year is totally in the trash. But, I can't fathom why people don't see this as a work in progress. I always hate to remind people that in Brad's first year, we were 8-12 going into our game with Louisville. After that we rattled off 9 straight. Was Marquee's heroics part of it? Sure, but I think it had more to do with learning the new system being put in place. And as I already mentioned, Rick's system is very tough one to learn, but I think when we do, things will change for the better. Excellent point - I had forgotten what Brad had said after that victory - I am paraphrasing but I know I am somewhat accurate with the overall content " thank God for this - I really needed it to keep the kids believing in the system - this win now shows them that they do know how play the way we have been teaching them". I had forgotten about that year and how much we had struggled and I am in the camp of letting RM do his thing. Thanks for pointing this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 it was pretty much all of it. perry was spectacular in that stretch. just carried the team. my guess is that majerus would make perry pass to the wide open phillip hunt instead of that last drive to the basket vs louisville. Wow Roy. Where could people possibly get the idea that you prefer Sodie to Majerus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzstldc Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 we all want majerus. we just want majerus magic to kick in now. this is exactly what SShoe is getting at - many expect the majerus magic ot be overnight whereas it is not an overnight process to change the basketball program of a school which hasn't been to the NCAA tournament since the year 2000 - for all those who have patience success will come and a few years down the road we won't care as much about the 07-08 season if we have a more successful program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Wow Roy. Where could people possibly get the idea that you prefer Sodie to Majerus. i dont prefer soderberg. but i dont like it when players capable are stifled. and some of the shots and opportunities that i have seen lisch and liddell pass up this year that they would have taken in their sleep prior to this year baffles me. thus the comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 this is exactly what SShoe is getting at - many expect the majerus magic ot be overnight whereas it is not an overnight process to change the basketball program of a school which hasn't been to the NCAA tournament since the year 2000 - for all those who have patience success will come and a few years down the road we won't care as much about the 07-08 season if we have a more successful program fine then just tell us this wont happen for a year or two, start playing all the underclassmen more and bench the seniors and i can deal with it. i dont like it, but i can deal with it and then it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Roy, do you believe that the current underclassmen (sophomores and freshman) will be the ones to lead this team into the promise land in the coming years? If you do, then that comment makes sense. However, I don't think anybody truly believes that Knollmeyer, Mitchell, Eckerle, and Relphorde are going to be the engine that drives this truck in the years to come. They could all be nice role players, but probably nothing more. Additionally, we are not in a situation where let's just completely give up on the season in any way. This isn't Brad's third year, where we started 2-9 (estimate) and had a promising freshman and sophomore class (DP, LM, DB, and IV). We are 6-4 and about to start a much needed four game home-stand. There exists a happy medium between making sure you put in your system and building towards the future, while also trying to win as many games right now as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Roy, do you believe that the current underclassmen (sophomores and freshman) will be the ones to lead this team into the promise land in the coming years? If you do, then that comment makes sense. However, I don't think anybody truly believes that Knollmeyer, Mitchell, Eckerle, and Relphorde are going to be the engine that drives this truck in the years to come. They could all be nice role players, but probably nothing more. Additionally, we are not in a situation where let's just completely give up on the season in any way. This isn't Brad's third year, where we started 2-9 (estimate) and had a promising freshman and sophomore class (DP, LM, DB, and IV). We are 6-4 and about to start a much needed four game home-stand. There exists a happy medium between making sure you put in your system and building towards the future, while also trying to win as many games right now as possible. how do we know. they dont play. play em and then there are absolutely no doubts. and i dont like that compromise. i would rather play all out to win now as much as possible, or else go all out to maximize the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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