The more i hear...

[moytoy12]

...the more i'm intrigued with Cuonzo Martin. If, and it's a big IF, Martin has some 2008 kids in tow, would it really be starting over? I don't know about Martin's coaching ability (or perceived coaching ability), if anyone has some insight, please share.

[3star_recruit]

Martin's strength in the St. Louis area is overrated. The only kid Purdue got from this area recently was Xavier Price, who ended up transferring to Western Illinois. I haven't seen any 2008 kid listing Purdue among their leaders.

[moytoy12]

Thanks. I'm basing my viewpoint on what i hear on KFNS and this board.

They make Martin out to be a dynamic recruiter. Of course, i haven't heard them talk much about his ability to be a head coach.

[billiken_roy]

he has never been a head coach.

how is bringing in a pure salesman not starting over?

martin is the perfect guy to bring in with an experienced coach. i would love to have him be that associate head coach whether it is with majerus or the low major head coach that would come in to get things started and the vision to see martin become the head coach down the road.

[inthelou]

He's only being touted by Bernie because Bernie's got his nose so far up Maurice Scott's ##### it's not even funny. Scott has Bernie convinced that Liddell will hold SLU hostage unless Martin is named coach. I say too bad. Players should NOT choose the coach.

[billiken_roy]

i tend to believe that whatever success purdue is having right now recruitingwise is because of painter more so.

[moytoy12]

"how is bringing in a pure salesman not starting over?"

It wouldn't necessarily be starting over if that salesman had some recruits with him.

[billiken_roy]

it would be starting over because:

1. he would likely install new offenses and defenses and even if better, likely becomes mistakes because of unfamiliarity of the returning players.

2. he would be developing his own thoughts and styles dealing with all things. not just x's and o's because he has never had to do such before.

3. he has never had to deal with a fandom and boosters head on before.

4. he has never been the "closer" in recruiting.

5. he has to deal with being the new guy with officials

it is the rare assistant coach that is a success at the first stop as a coach imo. and most that are, walk into a setup that is far more user friendly than this one.

i would much prefer our next asst that becomes the slu head coach is one that was promoted from within ala gonzaga or siu.

[moytoy12]

"1. he would likely install new offenses and defenses and even if better, likely becomes mistakes because of unfamiliarity of the returning players."

At least we would have an offense finally installed. sorry, couldn't resist.

"2. he would be developing his own thoughts and styles dealing with all things. not just x's and o's because he has never had to do such before.

3. he has never had to deal with a fandom and boosters head on before.

4. he has never been the "closer" in recruiting."

That is conjecture at best.

"5. he has to deal with being the new guy with officials"

If you're talking about A-10 refs, i don't think that matters at all.

We'll have to agree to disagree. You've concluded that it's RM or SLU is starting over. I'm allowing the possibility of an asst. coach coming in and it won't actually be starting over.

[billiken_roy]

those willing to accept that are music to biondi's ears.

[moytoy12]

And those that won't consider it to be a possibility are close-minded. I'm not saying it's going to happen or that it's likely or that it's my first choice. However, i won't close out the possibility.

[billiken_roy]

so you think that an asst coach is going to come in here and demand and receive higher paid asst coaches with generous expense accts, better student athlete houseing, increased and higher quality support staff in the athletic dept, etc?

i'll believe it when i see it.

[EastSide]

Martin has never been a head coach but he does have 11 years of experience at Purdue (4 as a player, 7 as an assistant). Considering that Purdue is a Big Ten and big time competitive sports college in comparison to our own I believe this experience is valuable. Brad had similar experience at Wisconsin and we gave him a chance. Note that this disregards his experience in BIG TIME NAIA and division 2 basketball because this experience is simply irrelivant. Brad obviously did not learn any valuable recruiting or coaching lessons from South Dakota and the mighty Duhawks of Loras (thus the status of our program). These ideas that Martin would not be a strong recruiter in this area are based on the fact that at Purdue there were no players from around here. My response to this is that Brad did not recruit from his native Wisconsin effectively and had no real connections to potentially exploit for future recruitment (another reason why he sucked). Martin has the POTENTIAL to recruit VERY WELL here. Remember that Brad is a WHITE COACHES SON FROM WISCONSIN, compared to Martin who is a BLACK GUY FROM EAST ST LOUIS. If you were a talented area basketball player who can you empathize and relate with the most on a recruiting level. Considering that we want these local players we have to be realistic when recruiting them, and Brad Soderburg recruiting is not thinking realistically. Martin is an improvement over BS based solely on recruiting POTENTIAL, even with 6 years less head coaching experience.

[billiken_roy]

i beg to differ. to recruit to the likes of south dakota and loras is much tougher than recruiting to purdue. i would assume that was invaluable experience.

i cant believe you all are thinking POTENTIAL amounts to anything in our instance.

[moytoy12]

Yes, that's exactly what i said.

If RM or any others can't get that out of Biondo, then who is? that will only amplify the point that Biondo isn't going to change and you need a coach that can work within that system, be successful and show biondo the benefit on the bottom line. Only then would Biondo consider changing (assuming again that Biondo won't change for the likes of RM and goes the cheap route).

[slu72]

I don't think any AC is going to cut much mustard with the area's '08 class. Thinking more as a parent than a kid, who would you rather see your son link up with for four years: Billy Donovan or Cuonzo Martin?

I think this is where a name like Rick Majerus does better.

[EastSide]

I am sure it is difficult recruiting in those smaller schools but the fact is the players are of the lowest athletic calibur on a national level. He would not have even encountered a recruit that has the potential of players on a division 1 level at the schools he was at. His valuable experience would have come from coaching a group of mediocre basketball players into becoming a team, something he was uncapable of doing here at my beloved SLU. Purdue is easier, sure...their competitors for recruits include every big ten school and every state or private school in the state of Indiana. Of course I know little of the workings surrounding the bitter recruiting wars of ND State and ND University, or the Duhawks arch rivals the bumble bees of St Ambrose. So I wouldnt be in a position to judge its difficulty.....

THinking as a parent, I would rather have my son play for Martins Saint Louis University than the Florida Gators regardless of how good they or their coach might be. It is a matter of loyalty and belief that the program has potential to make a name for itself. I would hope everyone on this board would try and influence their children to play for SLU if they are talented basketball players. For the 08 class Cuonzo would probably be too late, simply because its halfway throught he signing period. His area connections derive from who he is and where he is from, these are not short term recruiting characteristics. His name is not a big one but as an individual, for the calibur of players in this area (players that wont go to Donovans Gators), he has enough for future recruits and he would have something to prove as well.

[EastSide]

If potential has nothing to do with anything in our instance then why give a ##### about any of the coaches or players resumes/history whenever we hire and recruit them and see how it plays out. Potential is everything because we cannot predict the future. Besides, Rick Majerus could potentially have a heart attack as a write this. Its possible.

[Billikan]

The 08 class cannot begin to sign LOIs until next fall so all are still in play.

I was very much in favor of our hiring Romar and he was a black coach with a proven record of recruiting big time talent and he also was a very successful coach at a Division 1 school. Yet he struggled to sign any significant local black players so I do not necessarily buy into the idea that you must have a black coach to recruit black players in the area. Grawer did a nice job with players like Douglas, Gray, Bonner, Claggett, etc.

The fact that Martin has no head coaching experience at all really scares me at this level. It is impossible for me to believe that if we hire Martin that we are not just basically starting over and hoping for the best. It might work but I really question the idea of firing Brad so we can now start over. I like the RM idea because I think he will give the program a boost in terms of national publicity. He is also a fantastic X and O coach so we could expect to win games immediately.

If we created all of this angst just to hire a completely unproven assistant coach with no experience than I think this could be the disaster that I suggested the day that Brad was fired. I will support the team regardless but I am sure tired of continually starting over.