SLUDrew Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I realize that when coaches paying their cell phone bills is brought up by those who support Brad, they are using it to exemplify an under-funded athletic department. However, I have a little trouble feeling sympathy for a man who has an indoor basketball facility at his house because he might incur $50.00 in monthly cell phone charges. My point being, Soderberg is being compensated very well for what he is doing. Can we stop viewing him as a poor charity case? He has an arena being built which 2007 recruits will play in for three years amd 08 recruits will play in for four years. He is the only college basketball show within 100 miles and is in a metro area of over 2.5 million with no NBA team to compete with for headlines. Are there some things that need to improve? Of course there are. But like I said earlier, I consider the odds far better that we can get a Coach in here who can actually recruit, than Fr. biondi waking up tomorrow and deciding to infuse more cash in the athletic department. SLU may not be North Carolina, but it should be in far better shape than it is, regardless of whether or not the Coach has to spring for a few phone calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 "Are there some things that need to improve? Of course there are. But like I said earlier, I consider the odds far better that we can get a Coach in here who can actually recruit, than Fr. biondi waking up tomorrow and deciding to infuse more cash in the athletic department." At the end of the day, i absolutely agree with this statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I am using it as an example at how bush league SLU athletics is. It does not make Brad's recent recruiting effort excusable. Who is the guy that is going to wake Biondi up? It wasn't Spoon and his tournament years. In fact Biondi's and Woolard's ##### made him give up on recruiting and eventual drove him into retirement. Want to know what Spoon thinks about SLU? He never brings the place up unless prompted in a interview. Romar's run in Memphis didn't wake up Biondi. I am sure another short run of success will do the trick this time. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKnowItAll Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 yeah, i agree... its just really disappointing. I can't believe our school will fork over the cash for a new arena, but not give our coaching staff a cell phone budget... but that still does not excuse soderberg for his lack of recruiting. i often wonder what in the world soderberg is thinking... from his recruiting, to his x's and o's.. i dont understand how most MVC teams dominate the recruiting scene (in comparison to us), or maybe they dont... maybe their coaches are able to get more out of less... either way, it doesnt matter to me, i just want our program to reach 'the next level', and we appear to be at a standstill in every facet in regards to our team. AHHHHH, every year it gets tougher and tougher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 drew said, "I have a little trouble feeling sympathy for a man who has an indoor basketball facility at his house because he might incur $50.00 in monthly cell phone charges." i doubt it is only $50. my monthly bill is three times that and i doubt i have near the minutes that each of soderberg's coaches rank up plus text messages. is it a fortune that a head coach should be able to burden? sure. do other schools have to do the same? not my understanding. disadvantage slu drew said, "He has an arena being built which 2007 recruits will play in for three years amd 08 recruits will play in for four years." but he doesnt have it yet. but you want to blame him for recruiting 4 years ago forward for something that isnt built yet? drew said, "He is the only college basketball show within 100 miles and is in a metro area of over 2.5 million with no NBA team to compete with for headlines." i think if you look back to the slu hayday of top 10 attendance you will find it coincides with pre-rams and pre-larussa. i believe st louis CASUAL fans have $x amount of sports entertainment dollars to spend. when the rams werent here and the cardinals sucked, we got more than we get now. same with newpaper. hell we get 2-3 rams articles now in the post per day. and it is off season! same with the cardinals in the winter. couple that with the post still giving mi$$ouri and illinois preferential treatment. we're third rate. part of that goes to our mediocre record, but to be honest, i dont remember us dominating headlines in hughes or claggett days either. it is all inter related. if we want to be able to present a picture of a bigtime program, then everything we do should be bigtime. the facilities picture is going to change drastically in about 12 months to the good. however we still have a crisis management staff with not near the experience and available hands as the vast majority of d-1 programs. think about it. how in the world can a recruit come in for a visit that you know saint louis university put the full dog and pony show on and he says he would rather wait for big ten bcs iowa to find a coach before he makes a decision? obviously it is about what he saw at the school. iowa has an all around better picture to present. until that picture is fixed, it doesnt matter if we got soderberg or romar, they wont consistently be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 what is really sad imo, is that folks think that a new coach is an end all. the truth is a new coach is a tremendous step backward because of the honeymoon period, no one is demanding more from the athletic dept/father biondi. people think, "hot damn, we got us a recruiter now. final four here we come." i say you all should copy your posts. because in five years you can change the name on them from soderberg to new guy and post them again. they'l fit just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 please list "most MVC" schools that have dominated the recruiting scene. thanks in advance. Most to me would be like well more than half. so you are saying maybe 8 of the mvc teams have better rosters than the billikens. since we beat the third place mvc team and played the first place team close on the road, i just dont see that. but i am sure you will have the facts to back that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 "the truth is a new coach is a tremendous step backward because of the honeymoon period..." So now it's a step backward, not just starting over...maybe starting over is a step backward...who knows. "people think, 'hot damn, we got us a recruiter now. final four here we come.'" Who thinks that? That's silly hyperbole. A new coach might infuse this program with some life that it doesn't currently have. "say you all should copy your posts. because in five years you can change the name on them from soderberg to new guy and post them again. they'l fit just fine." It's possible you are correct. It's also possible that you are incorrect, but you don't easily see that. New coaches step in with someone else's recruits and win games and get to the dance. Why couldn't that happen at SLU with TL and KL? Then that momentum carries into the opening of the Arena...and the new coach builds on that momentum...and then the ball gets rolling. Just because it will take Sodie at least 6 years to make the NCAA doesn't mean that is the norm, even at SLU (i point to Romar and Spoon as proof). Nor does it mean that a program, even SLU, has to be built over 20 years. One could view Sodie's tenure as a piece of that 20 year project as well. Sodie stabilized the program after Romar left it in shambles, but could advance it no further so a new person comes in to push the program further along. I think your cup is 1/2 empty when it comes to a new coach, but my cup is 1/2 full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKnowItAll Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 "please list "most MVC" schools that have dominated the recruiting scene. thanks in advance. Most to me would be like well more than half. so you are saying maybe 8 of the mvc teams have better rosters than the billikens. since we beat the third place mvc team and played the first place team close on the road, i just dont see that. but i am sure you will have the facts to back that up." I stated pretty clearly that I was unsure if they are better recruiters than us... "i dont understand how most MVC teams dominate the recruiting scene (in comparison to us), or maybe they dont... maybe their coaches are able to get more out of less... either way"..... lets try to read more carefully from this point on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 We know one thing abaout his decision to hold off, it wasn't Iowa's coach. So, our vaunted leader could not have been that convincing either. I'm pretty sure after Correia committed to UMass, young Mr. Peterson thought, "heck they don't have a backup pg, I might as well wait it out. See who the Hawkeyes hire." And Broy you are painting a pretty defeatist attitude about Billiken hoops both in the present and for the future. Your argument seems to be UB is better than any new guy we could hire, and in five years will be beating our chest all over again. I can't agree. You see too many programs that are a lot less than ours being raised up by bringing in a new coach. Why would you think SLU couldn't do the same. Look at the excitement Shimmy's creating with the women, and hell we were the bottom of the women's barrel under Pizzotti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 We are not asking that Brad turn SLU into North Carolina. Is it too much to ask that we achieve the success that our fellow Jesuit schools are achieving? What about expecting SLU to SNIFF the success of a directional school in the middle of nowhere Illinois? Maybe it is too much to ask of him to achieve the success of a small private school in Peoria, IL with no on campus arena? The excuses are tired and have really lost any impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 PRE-LARUSSA? Did you really just write that? What in god's name are you thinking? Leave the board already. Did the Cardinals not exist prior to Larussa? Did the Cardinals play during the college basketball season back then? STOP MAKING EXCUSES....your excuses suck. A real coach can come in here and get the job done. Actually, your post regarding Pre-Larussa....so you are saying the Cards sucked prior to Larussa? and then he turned the team around for the last 10 years? he almost instantly got the team to the World Series? A COACH CAN DO ALL THAT??? Let's change a few things....and remember Roy, this is your example. The billikens sucked prior to a new coach. The coach came in and turned the team/program around. he instantly took the team to the post season. YES, a coach can INSTANTLY make a difference, especially with Lisch and Liddell already here and a new stadium on the horizon. AGAIN, stop making excuses. they really need to stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 It hasn't happened with any of the previous coaches. People really need to start demanding more from this man when it comes to funding and properly operating all of SLU athletics. He tries to skimp and penny pinch at every corner. He has made promises to every coach he has hired that he has not been able to keep. He has flat out lied to several different coaches and members of the athletic department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 moytoy said about my saying it would be the same ole same ole in 5 years, "It's possible you are correct. It's also possible that you are incorrect, but you don't easily see that." no i dont easily see that because it has been the same ole same ole for 4 straight coaches. and the one most previous to coach soderberg has went on to set the world on fire. man he got smart all at once. of course i recognize a new coach could come in and have success with soderberg's recruits. you are correct, spoon and romar both did such. but both had plenty of down after that as well. which is my point. a new coach comes in capitalizes on the progress that the previous coach started, but then in the attempt to start the program new, and with no help from above, dies on the vine. i would buy the one coach so far and the next takes it further, if indeed that would have happened between grawer to spoon to romar to soderberg. it hasnt. it is a roller coaster just like it was in 1987. imo, you have to get to a much higher point and have growth from within. (see gonzaga, see siu) otherwise you have to have a better committment from above or it doesnt matter who the coach is, you may get a one or two year run, but then it is back to the middle of the pack. count on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 He is what he is. Like I said in my original post of this thread, I think it is far more likely to find a Coach that can come in a succeed under the current conditions, that all of a sudden expect Fr. Biondi to dump more money into the athletic program. Again, I do not believe things at SLU are as destitute as many on here seem to think. I nuderstand Brad does not ahve as much to work with as Roy Williams, but I am not asking that he recruit McDonald's All-Americans either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 what coaches get more out of less? i already pointed out we beat the third place team and played with the first place team. i am failing to see your point. i am assuming you are saying that most of the mvc is better than slu. you need to convince me of that. i say siu and maybe creighton is better. that isnt a majority let alone most. you need to qualify your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKnowItAll Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 "It hasn't happened with any of the previous coaches. People really need to start demanding more from this man when it comes to funding and properly operating all of SLU athletics. He tries to skimp and penny pinch at every corner. He has made promises to every coach he has hired that he has not been able to keep. He has flat out lied to several different coaches and members of the athletic department." You might be right, but Biondi does not: recruit, run practices, create game plans, draw up plays, etc... - which all have way more to do with winning than Biondi's "broken promises". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 There seem to be a lot of similarities between the two institutions with the exception that SLU is a better known univeristy, playing in a much bigger city. Give me the excuses as to why Creighton better than SLU as I am very sure it has nothing to do with the fact Altman is a better coach/recruiter than Soderberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 slu72 said, "You see too many programs that are a lot less than ours being raised up by bringing in a new coach." please point out the many programs that got a new coach and then sustained that success for a long period of time. i will be interested to see how many of those new coaches came from the assistant ranks or the lower d-1 ranks. and secondly how many of the programs they took over were not bcs programs with far better budgets and infrastructure than they will find at slu. the conclusion i have come to over the last 5 years is it isnt the coach. the coach gets far too much credit for success and failure. romar is proof of that. someone needs to convince me how the main recruiter for the ucla championship and the now recognized fine coach at washington that took that mediocre program to new heights was so stupid and worthless at slu. as to shimmy, i am shimmy's biggest fan. just simply love the lady. and i believe in due time she will bring the program around. however let's not lose sight of the fact she hasnt had a 500 record yet in any one season. she hasnt recruited an overwhelming inside player yet either. she lost out on her top recruiting target this year as well to good ole mi$$ouri. shimmy is on a long term plan for growth as well due to all the same shortcomings that soderberg has. nothing is happening too fast there as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKnowItAll Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 we beat missouri state on pure luck... well, lets count all the MVC teams that have made the ncaa tournament (not even including the nit) in the past two seasons; in which, we have made no tournaments... Bradley, Creighton, SIU, Wichita State, and Northern Iowa.... In addition to that, Missouri State got the shaft two years in a row on getting an NCAA bid. It boils down to superior coaching(player rotations, in game adjustments, drawing up plays, etc..), coaches who can sell themselves to good recruits, or coaches who can do more with less. Soderberg has proved to be incapable of doing either/or. That lies on Brad's shoulders, not Biondi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKnowItAll Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 "There seem to be a lot of similarities between the two institutions with the exception that SLU is a better known univeristy" Nope, not outside of the Midwest. Typical responses around the country when I say I go to SLU are: "Where's that?"... SLU is a much better school than Creighton, but Creighton has more national recognition because of their basketball achievements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 i don't doubt that the admin is hampering brad and i think you make compelling arguments in that regard, we're just on opposite sides of the divide. I think a coach will have to create opportunities for change, you believe it will be from the top down. "you are correct, spoon and romar both did such. but both had plenty of down after that as well. which is my point. a new coach comes in capitalizes on the progress that the previous coach started, but then in the attempt to start the program new, and with no help from above, dies on the vine." But neither spoon or romar had the arena to continue the momentum. If a new coach came in, won, opened the arena to much excitement, won, and after 2 years of excitement and winning the program received increased $$ from having it's own place and increased booster support, then i shocked that Biondi would not care to assist a burgeoning cash cow. I could care less if Biondi likes basketball, but i know he's a shrewd business guy and $$ talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKnowItAll Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I think you underestimate the money our university puts into the basketball program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 it is because altman has been allowed to stay there for 13 seasons and build a program with no one hassling him. and if you think about the creighton teams other than the blonde haired kid that plays for the sixers, what GREAT players have they had? altman puts a team on the floor that plays hard and buys into his system. he utilizes his redshirts and gets good upper classmen play. all because creighton has stayed the course and let him build his program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Unless the underlying problems are fixed it is just rearranging the chairs are the deck of the Titanic. It may look better for awhile but the ship is still sinking. It this stuff doesn't get fixed we will still have the same issues with the hope team. The same issues with the soccer team. Levick, Champion, Shimmy, and all the good athletic department people will all get the hell out of dodge. We will be in the exact same situation we are now. I will give Biondi this, he normally hires good people. He rarely gives them the tools to keep suceeding at SLU. The athletic department has often turned into a back stabbing and look out for yourself brutal war zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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