Timmy

Since 2000 Saint Louis has been to the NCAA Tournament in 2000 and 2012. Saint Louis was invited to the NIT 2003 and 2004. Creighton meanwhile has been to the NCAA Tournament in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2012, and 2013. Creighton was invited to the NIT in 2004, 2006, 2008 and 2009. Starting this year and moving back to 2000 Creighton's RPI: 24, 24, 123, 115, 40, 46, 20, 39, 44, 77, 23, 44, 23. The Billikens RPI: 28, 31, 175, 87, 123, 137, 74, 181, 101, 64, 57, 111, 116. If you look only at the record since 2000, Creighton has had more than "a couple of good years" and have consistantly been a top 50 RPI program.

Do you remember the Notre Dame - Miami football rivalry? For the most part, ND and the U both recruited the same kids, but the ND fans (and many others) called it Catholics versus Convicts. ND may have had higher standards (who didn't compared to Miami at the time?) but the difference isn't night and day - more like 4:30 and 5:00 - because they are recruiting from the same small pool of talent. The fact is that every University recruits basketball players from the same small pool of talent. There is no discernable philosophical or ethical difference that I'm aware of between the vast majority of players available. University Coaches try to get the best possible talent wrapped up in the best possible kid. Sometimes corners are cut. Unless I missed something, most of the players on SLU's roster are not Catholic and don't have astronomically higher SAT scores than the players on the rosters other local schools. Frankly, I don't understand Roy's argument.

Slaten blaming the officials? The next thing you're going to tell me is that the sun is going to rise in the East tomorrow morning.

Good conversation guys.

I agree that there is no way to measure relative interest with any certainty. But I'm sure that you would agree that the disparity is more than 60/40. I think it would be more like 75/25, but that is just my opinion. At some point affirmative action programs such as Title IX must be ended and a rational method of distributing scholarships that does not discriminate against men or women must be developed. My son should have the same ability to receive an athletic scholarship in soccer as my daughter. Currently he has no chance while she is a lock and he is far more skilled at the game. That strikes me as unfair no matter how you spin it.

The flaw in this argument - and Title IX in general - is that the number of scholarships is distributed based on the ratio of male/female students at an institution. I would agree to that idea if men and women were interested in participating in athletics equally. Then are not. Look no further than your intramural program to prove that point. College athletics has little or no relationship with the student body in general with regards to where the athletes come from. Universities don't hold try-outs from the student body to fill rosters, they recruit kids and convince those who would normally not attend an institution to attend and play sports by providing athletic scholarships. It is therefore logical to assume that the number of scholarships handed out should be based upon the number of teams to be fielded rather than the ratio of male/female students at an institution. There is no sport for women that demands 80 scholarships as football does for men. Given the difference in desire between the sexes to participate in sports as proven by intramural participation rates, it is my opinion that excluding football scholarships from the mix actually makes Title IX more equitable. Note: My girlfriend received a full ride and started at SLU for four years in softball.

My understanding is that the Title IX lawyers jumped into the fray citing the inequity of facilities between the men and women. The fact that the men raised money from sources outside the university was a moot point. The facilities must be equal or reasonably equal or there is a breach of Title IX.

Just a bit of history - When Itchy Jones was still the baseball coach at SIU, he decided to hit up all the former boosters and players for money and local unions and contractors for labor to build a clubhouse for baseball as the University wasn't interested. After many years, Jones' clubhouse was completed. The softball team immediatly complained about the baseball team having superior facilities. Title IX kicked in and the University was forced to build a new stadium for the women. (That's my understanding of the sequence - if I have a detail incorrect I apologize.) The moral of the story is: When raising money for one program, make sure you give an equal amount to the women or you'll find yourself in court.

Wow. As silly as Basketball Country painted himself to be in this thread - Roy just blew him out of the water. Belleville less Methy/cracky than Carbondale? I've lived in both cities and I will swear on my mother's grave that Belleville is much MUCH more effed up than Carbondale ever will be.

They will be an RPI killer for a while - at least until they can get D-1 facilities.

I'd have to agree that Saint Louis is a better program than Michigan or Penn State... Very nice pick up.

I completely agree with you. The NCAA is the only entity that can change the minds of a Marquette by LEAVING THEM HOME for the NCAA tournament. That is the only way to get the Syracuse's to play away from the Carrier Dome and their $150,000 paydays. Even that might not be enough to sway some teams, but something has to be done. What if major league baseball scheduled the way the NCAA does? The Yankees would play 162 games at home and Tampa Bay would play 162 games on the road... Pathetic.

The only reason Indiana played at SIU was because they needed to move the date of a football game - so SIU said they'd move it for a home-home in basketball... There's no way a BCS team is coming to Carbondale, and that's what's wrong with the NCAA. IMO, what the basketball committe is doing by taking Kentucky or Baylor or Oregon over VCU and Illinois State is saying, that it's all right to play all your games at home, never travel to Carbondale or Normal because you might lose, and you'll still get in the tournament... Had the conference tournaments turned out differently - Xavier winning the A-10 and Illinois State winning the MVC, it would have been 2-2 in the tournament. Of course, if my aunt had wheels she'd be a trolly... The A-10/MVC aren't all that dissimilar, but this year the A-10 is the clear winner. Something tells me that you will be wishing the trend turns in the near future...

Actually, Carbondale is in the South Seven Conference...

I really loved driving "all the way across town" and having it take 10 minutes... Plus - Carbondale's Wal Mart is better than Fenton's.......

Having had the great pleasure of living in Carbondale, Belleville and JeffCO, I think the meth is probably of much higher quality in Jeffco, the appetite for it much higher in Carbondale and the number of dealers willing to sell it much higher in Belleville... The fact that someone from Belleville could look down on anyone (unless it's a fountain in the middle of the road contest) makes me chuckle out loud. I happen to like JeffCo (at least what I know of my little enclave) almost as much as I liked Carbondale. Carbondale was much more convenient as far as shopping - the diversity and quality of restraints, etc... However, the lack of employment opportunities (unless you wanted to work in one of the restraints or shopping establishments) in Carbondale led me to move to metro STL. The truth of the matter is - while the more clichéd of you will drag out your pictures of outhouses, pimped out monster trucks, women with missing teeth and men wearing nothing but overalls - the citizens of Belleville, JeffCo and Carbondale are virtually identical. The vast majority of them think alike, act alike and care nothing about Billiken basketball alike. I don't know about you - but I'm ready to see some toothless goobers sitting in front of a shack wielding shotguns and playing banjos! I think I'll walk my dog.

I would think the results would be much worse if Al McGuire were coaching the Bills... Fewer set plays and lack of flow on offense - probably a complete lack of defense - much worse recruiting. Can't really blame McGuire though - he's been dead since 2001.

Why? My answer to the St. Louis "hip" question, "where did you go to high school" IS Carbondale. I'm a Terrier... but I'm also a Saluki (Didn't get the repreve from the governor to attend a different university until Grad school.) I guess that's what really chaps my ass about St. Louisans calling SIU, "Carbondale." It happens no where else on the planet! If you aren't going to call Missouri "Columbia" or Illinios "Shampoo Bananna" then you shouldn't call SIU "Carbondale." Fine, it's my pet peeve - I'll live with it...

If it makes you guys feel any better - there was no mention of the game played by the only top 25 team in the area. Of course, if they did mention it they would have added "Carbondale" to the name of the university... They even add "Carbondale" to wire service stories. I guess in the esteemed estimation of the PD Sports editors, basketball fans in St. Louis are too ignorant to tell the difference between a Division I team in the top 25 and a Division II team. Interestingly, they don't seem to believe that the same stupid fans will have trouble telling the difference between Missouri-Columbia and Missouri-St. Louis... I also agree with Clock Tower et al. The Post should make SLU a priority in coverage over any other area team.

IMO you should protect your home court so no, it's not really an upset. On the other hand - SIU is ranked anywhere from #17 to #24 in the polls so a St. Louis win over the Salukis would be an upset, even at home.

It was SIU. he stated that the Salukis never play well in St. Louis and that Majerus would have the Bills ready for the upset.

Care to make a friendly wager on that prediction Thicks?

Creighton, Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier, Bradley, and Butler would form the core of a tremendous league. As much as I'd hate to see Bradley and Creighton leave the Valley that league would really be a monster and would get my attention as a college basketball fan.

Glad that I could amuse you BR. Hopefully you won't be as grouchy and crabby as you normally are for the rest of the evening. Just because the series is close doesn't mean that I don't expect to win the game. IMO SIU is a better program than St. Louis right now - I sense that St. Louis is going to raise itself to the Salukis level in the near future - which is good for both programs. I tend to agree with you regarding Illinois as an SIU rival. They are far too high and mighty to think of little ol' SIU as a rival - the same way Missouri-Columbia thinks of St. Louis or Mo. St. I think what I was getting at there was the fact that SLU, MSU, and SIU would play MUC or UIC if given the opportunity but the "big boys" don't want to take the risk of being defeated by a "lesser" opponent.

I tend to agree with Sillybilly. In order to have a true rivalry, both sides must agree that it is indeed a rivalry. For example, the Cardinals play Kansas City as their "rivalry" match up in interleague play - does anyone outside of Kansas City pay attention to those games over say games with the Brewers or Padres? As a Saluki fan living in St. Louis, I consider St. Louis University to be a rivalry game, but not to the extent of Creighton or Wichita State, or Illinois (if they'd ever play SIU.) It's a game that I expect SIU to win - hopefully that will change with the new leadership of the St. Louis University basketball program and we can begin to experience a true rivalry.