Pistol

I'll answer my own question since I just stumbled across it: Xavier is a 15.5 point favorite tonight.

I also don't get why we couldn't have offered this kid. He's that elusive athletic wing that SLU so rarely has on its roster and turned out to be a stud defender. I'm happy for him after seeing his list of accolades thus far at UWGB and hope he moves further up all of their charts. Cardinal Ritter is all of a 2-block walk from the West Pine Gym. Sigh.

Both are solid boards. Good luck tomorrow night. I'm going with three lifelong XU fans and I'm just hoping SLU can stop XU from getting out to a quick start. Digging ourselves out of a hole against NC A&T is one thing, but XU's rotation is deeper than our roster so we could have issues if we get behind early or in foul trouble. I'm looking forward to the matchups with the bigs: Reed and Thompson vs. Frease and Love. The PGs are young, so that could be interesting, too. Should be a good game. By the way, does anyone know what the line on this game is?

I wouldn't say that about Kelvin Lee. I don't think he's got anything personal against SLU. He was an assistant there under Spoon and I'm not aware of any bad blood. That said, I know him to be a guy to push his players to do what's best for them, and if he's disappointed in the SLU head coach for not contacting his stud sophomore before all the other head coaches got in the mix, that probably doesn't bode well. Beal doesn't have the blinders on. He doesn't seem to have a "dream program" in mind already. He never said anything about where he wouldn't go. He's a sophomore and is wide open- get after him now. Majerus still has home-field advantage on this kid, and it would be stupid to let him slip away. Not to mention, he's a straight-A student and Rick seems to care about that more than a lot of other coaches.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ...view/index.html This article is about the game you're referring to. What a blast this team is to watch, as they still have the same coach and same style. No defense whatsoever, shoot as soon as you're open, take as many 3s as you want- it's like a video game when they play, and they force teams to conform to their style. You can't pack it in on them.

I wasn't referring to any specific incident, like Stemler or Harrellson. When it comes to local recruits, we all know by now who got away on Brad's watch for one reason or another. I give him credit for keeping Lisch and Liddell home and for offering Griffey before anyone else; other than that, his recruiting was an almost unmitigated failure. Like you said, he didn't get enough offers out and he was too slow to make up for his misses. He overanalyzed players to a fault. So we experienced the double-whammy of missing out on the top local recruits who went to bigger programs as well as the next tier who he wasn't quite sure about, and we were left with...well, guys who were way below the level of players I'd expect to see at SLU.

Did they hook you up with good seats?

I disagree, Roy, because I don't think you're telling the whole story (I think both you and CR88 are correct). Soderberg did stay around way too long on too many recruits, but the problem was he wasn't offering. So by the time he did offer or decide not to, both these recruits and the Plan B recruits had made their minds in other ways. 'Early and often' - deserving recruits in our area should be getting an offer from SLU first. They should be watched and contacted as much as the rules allow by SLU's coaching staff. No excuses. In the Beal case, my hope is that Porter Moser is developing a nice relationship with him, even if our head coach for some ridiculous reason doesn't have a line of communication with him, and is telling Beal: "Look, don't worry about not hearing from Majerus right now. He's building this program. By the time you are in a Billiken uniform, he's going to be wrapping up his career and this is my program from that point on and I want you to build it with me." I still think having the head coach fully involved is important, but that's the best we can hope for if not.

SLU's staff is making a huge mistake if this is going to be the thought process in recruiting- "Oh well, he's too good, we better back off because he's got offers from KU and Florida." That is completely unacceptable. SLU should be the first offer, the most frequent visitor, caller, and whatever else is allowed under NCAA recruiting rules. So what if we're not in the top tier of programs? We have the unique advantage of being the only program in the city, the only one where he can play at home. We brought Majerus in to boost the level of this program, and that isn't going to happen to any significant degree if he isn't even trying on the best recruits in his front yard. Inexcusable.

Nice site, Xfactor. Looks like you guys have multiple options, with yours and Musketeer Madness- is there much crossover between members? As for your second comment, it should be a no-brainer for anyone in charge of the league. The vast majority of fans on both sides agree on this. SLU, Xavier, and Dayton should all be playing each other twice a year, regardless of who the third opponent is for each.

Let's start by winning at Xavier and take it from there.

He's a local Cincinnati kid but played his first two years at Manhattan before transferring home to play at Xavier. Needless to say, Manhattan didn't have the depth that Xavier has had recently. As far as the Xavier board goes, I can't say I check it out very often. But in person, the fans are pretty similar to SLU fans, just a little more numerous and passionate, with good reason. I go to most of the home games because my girlfriend's family has season tickets and have had some pretty good conversations with their fans about Xavier, SLU, and hoops in general. The seemingly unanimous consensus is that SLU-Xavier should be a home-and-home every year, no questions asked. Most of them don't seem content in the A10 but aren't going anywhere unless the conferences reshuffle and a better opportunity comes along (sounds familiar). I've found Xavier fans to be knowledgable, loyal, and good hosts. I've seen SLU played there a few times now and even worn my SLU stocking cap to a few non-SLU games, and people always are friendly and not obnoxious- last week I got a "Yeah, SLU! Can't wait for that game!" when I wore it. All in all, I'd say they have a classy fan base so the respect they show SLU on the board doesn't surprise me. It's refreshing to encounter that after seeing the comments of some of our other potential rivals (I won't name names). And I can't wait for Thursday's game. I'll give as detailed a rundown as I can on Friday. Will anyone else be there?

I didn't take it as such. I would just be surprised to see this level of detail from anything the SLU athletic department publishes. There's a ton of variables to consider: coach, years played, games played each year, rules (e.g. 3-point line), teammates, and so on. Look at it this way: If Romar had never left, Kevin and Tommie would certainly be challenging for the top spots on our all-time scoring list. As it stands, they should wind up in the neighborhood of 5 to 7.

You guys are just looking at stats. Heinrich's greatest quality was that he played so hard and (believe it or not) worked out so hard in the offseasons. He gave opponents fits out there. It showed up considerably more each year, even if the stats only show a little improvement in points, minutes, and percentages. He wasn't a guy who was ever expected to carry the load in scoring; he had no finesse and limited upside. He just worked. I saw the improvement with my own eyes.

Heinrich got better. I liked him a lot as a senior, especially compared to the goon he was as a freshman. Tough kid and good defender by the time he left SLU- never had great touch or finesse but developed by leaps and bounds. Vouyoukas also got better. I saw flashes when he was a freshman and he got some NBA looks by the end of his very strong junior year. His problem was that he didn't make another step forward after that season. Baniak was a disappointment, given the amount of hype that incoming class had. From all accounts I've heard, he was a good guy who worked hard but never had that toughness that bigs need. He also started out as a pre-med student (finished business) and was sort of a loner instead of a good teammate. Other than that, you're right, we haven't had a ton of success in developing bigs. I think these two are going to be different.

They very well might realize it, but part of my point was this might be a person who works for Comcast, the building manager, and not SLU. The scorers table is manned by SLU, but maybe not the scoreboard player stat guy.

Then you have not been to or watched many basketball games. This happens all the time, even with the biggest, most sophisticated programs and in the NBA. Certain shots from the shot clock operator's point of view look like they will hit the rim and could be off left or right enough to miss everything; when the shot clock guy's hand is on the trigger at all times, it's nearly impossible not to anticipate some shots, and occasionally they get it wrong. As long as one official notices, it's not a big deal. Secondly, the people who do these game functions are not all employed by SLU's athletic department; most of them just do the games and have no other jobs for the AD. Their pay is minimal and may come in the form of tickets or a check at the end of the season. Even if SLU broke the bank on something like scoreboard and shot clock operators, you would see no difference in performance. Finally, the thing most people seem to have an issue with are the player stats during the game. Like I said before, this is not an 'official' function, and is probably being done by someone in a separate control room, not at the table. Since this is just for in-house fans, it probably isn't taken too seriously by whomever is in charge of it.

I copied and pasted from the SLU media guide, which has no separation for the change in rules for freshmen. I wouldn't even know how to go about doing that.

Xavier should take care of business tonight after back-to-back losses (albeit to good teams). They'd better take care of business, anyway, because I'll be there and my girlfriend will be rough to hang out with afterwards if they lose this one.

The scoreboard operator is not the same one who does the stats; he'd only have the clock, game score, time outs left, and team fouls. The clock operators are monitored by the officials during the game. Whoever is in charge of keeping track of the substitutions, player points, and player fouls is always slow and wrong. This is not an officially monitored function because it is not crucial to game play. I also don't know why they'd be asking the scoreboard and/or shot clock operators to give them 30 seconds for the time out contests; they have to keep the clocks where they are during timeouts because they are official timekeepers. The marketing people should be doing that themselves and chances are it is the student with the microphone who is being the idiot.

My boss is in Indianapolis. If he were here and happened to walk by, he would have seen me hitting a calculator, so he would have been impressed if anything. It's going to be close if Kevin tops Highmark, which would make him 5th. The fewest games we could play is 17, so that's 16.6 PPG he'll need to average to pass him. I'm guessing we play at least 18, so that's 15.7 a game. I hope he does it because that means he'll finally start to get hot. Like the rest of you, I'm also disappointed at the lack of recent players on here. The media guide only goes 20 deep (I added Lisch and Liddell), so Ian won't even be included next year.

That's my guess, too, Lisch (5) and Liddell (7). I think Lisch has enough to catch Highmark, but not Douglass, and that Liddell won't reach Highmark. The numbers say that to top Scotty, Lisch needs to average about 14-16 PPG based on how many more games we play, and that's right in his wheelhouse. It will be close, and he might not get it if he misses any games with injuries. To beat Highmark, Tommie would need to average in the high teens- not impossible, but we just don't score enough as a team to make me think he'll do it.

After reading Timmerman's most recent blog post, I was inspired to look more into the all-time scoring leaders and SLU and see where Kevin and Tommie were and how high they might reach. Here's the list: Total Points 1. Anthony Bonner (’86-90) 1,972 2. Erwin Claggett (’92-95) 1,910 3. Roland Gray (’85-89) 1,880 4. Monroe Douglass (’85-89) 1,877 5. Scott Highmark (’92-95) 1,703 6. Harry Rogers (’70-73) 1,491 7. Dick Boushka (’52-55) 1,440 8. Kevin Lisch (2006-09) 1,422 9. Ed Macauley (’45-49) 1,402 10. Joe Wiley (’67-70) 1,368 11. Tommie Liddell, III (2006-09) 1,367 12. Marque Perry (2000-03) 1,358 13. Luther Burden (’82-85) 1,349 14. Lewis McKinney (’73-76) 1,325 15. Jim Irving (’68-71) 1,269 16. Carl Johnson (’74-78) 1,187 17. Jim McLaughlin (’53-56) 1,170 18. Bob Ferry (’56-59) 1,128 19. Jack Mimlitz (’55-58) 1,116 20. Virgel Cobbin (’96-99) 1,107 21. David Burns (’79-81) 1,049 22. Ian Vouyoukas (2003-07) 1,046 So after crunching some numbers and looking at the remaining games (based on if we make the A10 Tournament and how far we go), here are the averages they need in order to tie for the top spot with Bonner: 17: Lisch 32.4, Liddell 35.6 - No A10 Tournament 18: Lisch 30.6, Liddell 33.6 - A10 1st Round 19: Lisch 28.9, Liddell 31.8 - A10 2nd Round 20: Lisch 27.5, Liddell 30.3 - A10 3rd Round 21: Lisch 26.2, Liddell 28.8 - A10 Final 22: Lisch 25.0, Liddell 27.5 - Postseason Tournament 23: Lisch 23.9, Liddell 26.3 - Postseason Tournament 24: Lisch 22.9, Liddell 25.2 - Postseason Tournament Now, we could still potentially play in the NIT or CBI and not make the A10 final (it's possible, if not likely), so that's why I just say Postseason Tournament after A10 final. I also stopped at 24 because anything past that would require the very late rounds of the NIT or NCAA tournament. So, any guesses as to where will each end up on the list?

I finally got back to my alma mater to see Bradley Beal and the Red Devils take on Pattonville in the first round of the annual Chaminade Holiday Tournament. This game wasn't even close from the start, and I saw that Chaminade wound up winning its own tournament. Beal didn't disappoint, going 9-11 from the field and pouring in 28. He and the other starters came in to start the third quarter, but were all pulled at the first whistle and the bench players finished the game. So those 28 basically were just in the first half. As impressed as I was with how smooth Beal is, it didn't look like he was going full speed- not because of an injury or anything, but because he didn't have to. I'd like to see him play a tougher opponent to see what he does when the game isn't so easy. He's got an absolutely natural stroke, and went 4-4 from behind the arc. Beal missed a dunk, mostly because a defender got underneath him awkwardly and he looked more worried about landing on his feet safely than landing the dunk. Anyway, he's as smooth and steady a player as I've seen in a long time, and his list of offers (SLU, Mizzou, Illinois, KU, Florida) and suitors (UNC keeps calling) says a lot. He's not that big, listed at 6-3, but only a sophomore and has big hands and feet (and taller older brothers) so he might have a few more inches to go. Man, would I love to see that kid in Billiken blue. Also got a chance to talk to Chaminade's AD for a few minutes, and he said Beal is an outstanding student- A's across the board. He's also got two younger brothers in eighth grade out there, and both of them are near 6' and north of 200 lbs. - but soft, and they look like linemen. The rest of Chaminade's team was impressive- Lockhart is a solid senior guard who seems to run everything out there. I'm surprised he was only listed as having 2 steals and 5 assists. Hannah is a beast for a sophomore, but apparently missed the football season with a torn ACL. He also missed a dunk that probably would have been cake for him if fully healthy. With the only loss so far coming to McCluer, Chaminade should be in the mix for the state title this year. Love what I saw from the team and Beal, but like I said, I'd like to see them play a tougher opponent to get a better idea.

I love the title of this thread, as if any of his fans were on this board. I think they're out there right now, driving their sad cars to their sad jobs, listening to a radio "personality" who only delivers anything humorous on accident. I have yet to attend a game at another gym in the country with a worse PA than Guy.