Bay Area Billiken
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Posts posted by Bay Area Billiken
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The idea of introducing English Soccer relegation to the discussed Pac-2/Mountain West merger is very interesting.
On another note, the current Pac-12, in its last season, has 8 teams ranked in the Top 25 in both the AP and FCS Coaches College Football polls.
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Comparing last year's schedule to this year's schedule by last season't final NET, the schedule is only slightly less difficult this season, as follows:
Overall '22-'23 schedule average NET: 148.0; '23-'24 schedule average NET: 155.8, only 5% easier than last season.
One assumption is the Myrtle Beach Invitational goes per the '23 NET, which would have SLU defeating Wyoming, losing to College of Charleston, and playing (and defeating) Wichita State.
The nonconference schedule, not including the exempt tournaments, is also only slightly easier in '23-24, an average NET of 146.3 this coming season, vs. 139.9 last season. The same applies to SLU's A10 games, an average NET of 167.5 in '23-'24 vs. 164.4 in '22-'23.
In both seasons, SLU played/is playing 1 regular season non-D1 game.
In '22-'23 SLU played 18 home games, 11 away and 2 neutral; In '23-'24, SLU is playing 16 home games, 12 away, and 3 neutral.
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9 hours ago, HoosierPal said:
Typically, maybe always, a team leaving a conference leaves their NCAA units behind. The league they departed keeps those not already released. (The Pac 12 may be an exception - let's see how that one ends up.)
If/When the Big East expand, it is all about money. Which team/market brings in the most $$ for the league. And the driver there is TV money. I don't know SLU TV ratings, nor how they compare to Dayton/VCU/Davidson/Richmond, etc. That will be a key focus for Fox. And if SMU is the new norm, the cut of TV money for a new school wouldn't be equal to existing conference members for several years.
To be more specific, it appears the Big East wants a school that is going to earn NCAA Units ($). As such, the Big East looks to past performance in terms of earning NCAA Units as the best predictor of future results, those future results being earning NCAA Units as a Big East school. This is not a case of a school bringing NCAA units with it. Yes, those are generally left behind.
sludevil likes this -
27 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:
I agree that it does not make much sense to switch conferences at this point but I'm also not sure I subscribe to the notion that if SLU somehow found itself in the MVC (or another conference) that it would diminish their chances of landing in the BE. To me, if the BE wants us they want us. First, SLU has to string together some very successful seasons of college hoops (or be able to back up the Brinks truck as Brian suggests - don't see that happening) regardless of conference. But if they got to that point (fingers crossed) I would imagine conference affiliation (along with all of the conference comparison stats provided in previous posts) would hold less weight than what what SLU would able bring to the BE table: a top 25 market, top notch facilities that rival some P4 schools, another basketball-centric Jesuit institution, the final puzzle piece to a BE West division, and the resources to compete in the BE. SLU maintains all of those things regardless of their conference affiliation.
I'm sure I am in the minority here and completely off base with this extremely simplistic take. First things first: let's win a lot of national collegiate athletic association basketball games. Starting with a 33-0 record this year.
What the Big East, itself, appears to want in a prospective new member is NCAA Tournament units. The question then is which conference provides the best opportunity for SLU to accumulate those units. I can see merit in both sides in trying to answer that question. SLU checks all the other boxes.
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23 minutes ago, Compton said:
As the top four conferences gain a stranglehold on football, I wonder if lesser programs will give up on it. Schools like Charlotte, Temple, and UAB doubled down on football in the last decade. The pendulum could swing the other way. We're already seeing it a bit with UConn leaving the AAC for the Big East.
If the likes of Charlotte, Temple, Tulsa, or WKU opt out of football irrelevance, and/or Wichita St tires of playing second fiddle, there could be some solid pick-ups available for non-football conferences.
Football brings the much larger TV money.
UConn actually took a TV pay cut when it moved from the AAC to the (New) Big East due to the loss of AAC ESPN TV revenue, in the vicinity of $7M in the AAC to $4+M in the Big East.
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27 minutes ago, wgstl said:
can you elaborate, I'm unfamiliar with what went down with SMU.
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19 minutes ago, wgstl said:
correct, as things stand today, the A10 is better. Some of the discussion from above - at least from me- is conf comparison if the teams mentioned leave. At that point, *maybe* the A10 is still stronger, but by not enough to truly justify its worth staying in.
The A10 is still significanlty stronger than the MVC (and Horizon) post-Temple, Xavier and Butler (1 year) exits and post-Creighton MVC exit, as proven by the NCAA Tourney bids since, 25 to the A10, 12 to the MVC, 9 to the Horizon.
Another point, of the MVC's 26 NCAA bids since '05-'06, 13 were earned by schools that are no longer in the MVC: Wichita State (7), Loyola Chicago (3), Creighton (3). Turning to the Horizon, 7 of the 19 NCAA bids were earned by schools no longer in the Horizon: Butler (5), Valparaiso (2). In the A10, NCAA bids earned by former members amount to 14: Xavier (7), Temple (6), Butler (1). Just subtracting those NCAA bids yields: A10 37, MVC 13, Horizon 12.
Five (5) of those 13 MVC bids would have been earned by someone else, other than a team that left, bringing that total up to 18. Likewise, 5 of the 7 Horizon bids would have been won by someone else. The A10 still wins with 37 bids to 18 for the MVC, and 17 for the Horizon. Again, there's no contest.
I can see St. Louis Area and Midwest alumni, residents and fans having an issue with the geographic disparity of the A10 vis-a-vis SLU in St. Louis. But the A10 is better than the MVC and Horizon in Basketball, TV availability, and institutional fit categories.
This being said, SLU's goal should be Big East membership. If SMU can pull off a miracle and get into the ACC (just think about that), then SLU can make a concerted effort and finally get where it's belonged for 18 and 10 years, the Big East.
cgeldmacher likes this -
A comparison of the number of NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bids since SLU joined the Atlantic 10 for the '06-'07 season:
A10 51, average of 3.0 NCAA bids per season; MVC 26, average of 1.5 NCAA bids per season; Horizon 19, average of 1.056 NCAA bids per season.
If the comparison is begun at the '13-'14 season, the season after Temple, Xavier and Butler (one and done) left the A10 and Creighton left the MVC, the number of NCAA Tourney bids is as follows: A10 25, an average of 2.8 per season; MVC 12 bids, an average of 1.3 per season; Horizon, 9 bids, an average of 1 bid per season.
All of the above and the following does not include the '20 season when the NCAA Tourney was not played. The MVC has been Juan Bid 6 of the last 7 seasons, the Horizon Juan Bid for the last 13 consecutive seasons. The A10 was Juan Bid in '23 for the first time since '05, before SLU joined the A10. Let's hope '23 was an outlier for the A10, and not the start of a trend. Juan Bid could be an unwelcome guest due to the NCAA Power 5 +1 skewed NET and the Power 5 +1 not playing non-Power 5's on the road.
In terms of television rights, the A10 has deals with CBS for its A10 Tourney Championship Game on Selection Sunday, CBS Sports Network, NBC- now on USA Network after the NBC Sports Network folded, and the ESPN Networks for the A10 Friday Night games, which put the A10 in a national spotlight, in an only game in town scenario. This is not a close call- A10 TV access is significantly better than the MVC and eons better than the Horizon. A lot of MVC games are confined to ESPN+ streaming. Whether the A10 can maintain this excellent linear TV exposure remains to be seen.
The institutional fit is no contest. I realize the detractors don't like to be told that, but that one is also not close.
The only thing the MVC and to a lesser extent Horizon have over the A10 for SLU is geography.
As noted by another poster, if the MVC is so great, why did Loyola Chicago leave the MVC for the A10? That is a rhetorical question and yields an obvious answer.
My fellow Billikens, this one is not a close call. While the ultimate home for SLU should be in the Big East, the A10 is significantly better than the MVC and Horizon.
Compton, AGB91, stmdragons and 5 others like this -
1 hour ago, thetorch said:
None of that has anything to do with basketball and athletics.
That is why the like minded argument has little to no merit.
We want to play big time college basketball. Most "like minded" schools can't, won't, or don't put up the money to do so.
So in fact they are not like minded at all.
Our Jesuit values had us spend over 100 million dollars on Chaifetz and addons to it. Half of the A10 would kill to play their games in our practice facility.
Dayton and VCU are the only like minded schools in our conference. Repeating false narratives Billikens have used to fool ourselves into thinking the A10 is a good conference for the last 20 years won't change that.
This is still college sports. Having members in major cities has given the A10 much better TV access than the MVC and the Horizon. The status of the universities does matter.
I didn’t say the A10 is “a good conference.” It used to be pretty good, received 6 NCAA Tourney bids in ‘13. But Temple and Xavier left, and the A10 has been in regression. However, the A10 is still better than the MVC and significantly better than the remnant of the Horizon. The latter is not even close.
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The A10 has more like minded institutions in terms of mission, fellow Jesuit schools, Catholic schools, and private schools, to wit:
Jesuit (Catholic) Universitites (4): Loyola Chicago, Fordham, St. Joseph's, and SLU;
Other Catholic Universities (4): Dayton (Marianist), Duquesne (Spiritan), St. Bonaventure (Franciscan), LaSalle (Christian Brothers);
Other Private Universities (3): George Washington, Richmond, Davidson (Presbyterian);
The A10 has four (4) public universities of its fifteen (15) members: Massachusetts, Rhode Island, VCU, George Mason.
willie, CenHudDude and cgeldmacher like this -
The Big East TV contract with Fox and the sublicense to CBS and CBS Sports Network expire in '24-'25. There is insufficient time for SLU to drop down in conferences at this point. While I understand the point although I don't agree with it, time now is too much of the essence to be switching conferences. What we are seeing is the conference realigments occur when those TV contracts are expiring.
2023 Conference NET's: Big East 4, Mountain West 5, WCC 8, American (AAC) 9, C-USA 10, WAC 11, A10 12, MVC 15, Horizon 21.
Billikenbooster likes this -
I was present for the SLU at Stanford NCAA Playoff game in 2001. Stanford won that game on what was described to me by a former SLU Soccer player as a miskick, an errant SLU goal kick right to a Stanford player positioned -15 yards in front of him, who promptly deposited the ball right back in the back of the net. Stanford won 1-0. That remains the strangest opponent's goal I've ever seen.
Last night's goal at SMU would rank as the second strangest I've ever seen, albeit on ESPN+ internet streaming, not in person.
I think the ref should have blown the whistle and stopped play due to an apparent player injury, namely the downed SMU player in the penalty area about 15 yards in front of the SLU goalie. That had to have been a distraction to the SLU players, especially the SLU Goalie, as the downed SMU player was right in front of the SLU Goalie and stayed down in front of him. The SMU announcers conveniently omitted courtside's observation that the SMU goal scorer himself was offsides. The SMU announcer focused on the downed SMU player not being called for offsides because he stayed down, rather than getting up.
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SMU wins 1-0, on what seemed to me to be a bizarre first half goal.
The high temperature today in Dallas was 110 degrees. The game started in the late daylight at 104 or 105 degrees, and the temperature was 96 degrees in the 2nd Half after 8 p.m. Central, after dark and under the lights. Hydration breaks were called in each half.
For the soccer buffs, please explain why the ref didn't blow the whistle and stop play when the SMU player went down in the penalty area, and stayed down. As the SMU announcer said on ESPN+, SLU seemed to stop, waiting for the whistle, and SMU scored seemingly uncontested.
Reading the rule, since the SMU player down in penalty area didn’t go for the ball, it wasn’t offsides. SMU announcer said had the player gotten up, it would have been called offsides. But why didn’t the ref blow the whistle and stop play? The SMU guy was down for some time in the middle about 15 yards in front of the SLU Goalie.
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I think VCU to AAC is just conjecture. We’ll see.
thetorch likes this -
33 minutes ago, thetorch said:
Why play in the toughest Juan Bid league?
Save money on travel join the valley or horizon. Juan Bid is Juan Bid.
My goal is for SLU to get in the Big East. I don't think dropping down to the MVC or Horizon does anything to aid that cause. I know the presence of Creighton (from the MVC) and Butler (from the Horizon with 1 intervening year in the A10, in which SLU beat Butler 3 times) in the BE might say otherwise. But I'd still take the A10 over either the MVC or Horizon.
I think VCU going to the AAC would be an overall positive for SLU.
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The A10 has already reached Juan Bid status. It would be easier to get that one automatic NCAA bid if VCU was elsewhere.
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Utah State website reporting Utah State @ SLU on Nov. 28.
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While playing at Loyola and at Dayton is not optimal for the St. Louis based SLU fans, having the shorter road trips on weeknights is a bit better for the players, saves a couple of hours of weekday/weeknight travel time. Chicago is easily accessible from St. Louis, plane, train, I-55. There's a potential two game road trip to Philadelphia in the mix, at LaSalle and at St. Joe's, Feb. 7 and 10.
Ten (10) of SLU's 18 A10 games are on National Cable/Satellite TV, 4 on CBSSN, 4 on USA and 2 on one of the ESPN Networks, both Friday nights vs. VCU, away and home.
SLU needs to make a visit to the West, is playing Utah State in St. Louis, reportedly sometime in late November, on an as yet unannounced date.
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This is a good move IMO.
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https://slubillikens.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule
SLU's A10 Schedule has been released.
Compton and BrettJollyComedyHour like this -
I’ve watched parts of all 3 games. Frankly, SLU is fortunate to be 1-2, was outplayed the first 67 minutes of the Butler game. In the Lipscomb road game, how can you not convert on 2 penalty kicks? We could see one going awry, but two?
One theme has been the inability to generate offense, the inability to make passes without an opponent intercepting. In all 3 games, the opponents had someone in SLU’s way, as if the opponents had too many players on the field (they didn’t). The Butler game took a favorable turn when SLU started kicking long drives behind the Butler defenders and the speedy SLU forwards beat Butler to the ball. But SIUe had that maneuver diagnosed and stopped it in the first half.
Here’s a suggestion. SLU has a freshman who scored 100 Goals in high school, was the best player on an Illinois State Championship team last season. He played 17 minutes as a sub off the bench last night. How about playing him more minutes and at his natural position? Try it and see what happens. My prediction is that result will be favorable.
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This is a disappointing result. SIUe was the aggressor, as evidenced by the 3 Yellow Cards, seemed to want it more.
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13 minutes ago, willie said:
I think you make a good point. The St. Louis Sports Commission should look in to it. We are in the middle of the country with an airport that has room.
Plus, the STL Metro has three nearby airports in Illinois, as well as hotels across the River, in case the CA travel ban remains in effect. There has been advocacy this year to end the travel ban.
SLU Men's Soccer Thread
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
https://x.com/slumenssoccer/status/1708301484847243389?s=46&t=jikm5nKg-NlIUjy2c9C9zw