VTIME Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 >vtime said, > >"How can you say that he had nothing to do with Polk getting >out. You say kids like Polk were getting out regardless. >Why?" > >because polk approached his academics from the very >beginning with a higher priority. obviously that had to do >with some parental input, but still i am convinced dwayne >would have succeeded regardless of where he went to high >school and who his coach was." > >vtime said, > >"What was Floyd supposed to do, kick them off the team and >ruin any chance they had of going to college at all." > >ironically, if floyd had shown some tough love early on in >his career and indeed kicked kids off that didnt want to do >the academics, my bet is that it would have sent a message >to future wolverines that in order to play for the mighty >vashon program you better be serious about your schoolwork. >so to answer your question, yes, kick them off and maybe you >save more future kids. > >vtime said, > >"They could at least showcase their talents at JUCO." > >see here is where you are missing the whole point. >"showcasing their talent at juco doesnt fix their academic >distress. a player goes to a juco and still doesnt put in >the time or take the right classes will still be on the >outside looking in at most division one schools. so unless >the player you are talking about is a surefire nba player, >your showcasing is no help to the student athletes. > >vtime said, > >" Also I know for a fact that it's the ACT more than >in-school work that keeps the kids out of college. > >and i guess you think in order to get a 28 on an act test >you can just waltz into the testing room and do it? to >succeed on the act you better have been doing your classroom >work as well. the reason the act keeps kids out is when >students are in a bogus academic setting that is just giving >grades and not presenting the material needed to be able to >pass the act. if you know of an honor student that >struggled with the act, i would immediately question that >school the student in question came from. obviously the >school did not prepare that student for the next level and >gave away the grades. You said kick some kids off to save some future kids? I dont understand how kicking off an eligible player is in the best interest of the kid. As of late Floyd's kids have been qualifying. He has 6 kids D1 in the last 3 classes, and only Muse had to go JUCO I brought up the JUCO point because all of his kids could at the very least play JUCO when they are done at Vashon because they played at his program. Mineral Area in particular picks up any Vashon bench warmer who wants to come. They took Hicks in 04 and Pembelton in 05. The point is at JUCO, they'll get 2 years of college paid for and as long as they are eligible they will have a lot of, if not all of the work required to get an associate degree. Another Vashon 2006 graduate Jerry Brown is going D1 in football. He's playing DL for Illinois. Sounds to me like the guys who have dreams and want something more for themselves are qualifying while those who dont are falling by the wasteside. All you can do is encourage a kid to do the right thing. In the end, its up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 >How do they enforce it out of curiosity? Where I went to >highschool, the only real enforcing as far as academics >dealt with passing classes and attending school and this >should be the norm at all places. How does Belleville go >beyond that? I agree that coaches should encourage their >players to put time and effort into school, but to what end? > Athletes are not typically the smartest group of people and >as long as they are going to class and passing that is good >enough in my opinion. And from the looks of things the >basketball players from Vashon are doing that of late. The kids have really been taking care of business as of late. Three 2006 graduates went D1. I'd like to think that the change has come about because of the increased emphasis of going to college placed by society. There are so few jobs out here and the cost of living continues to rise and kids are trying to find a way to support themselves. I dont know, I'm just guessing. All I know is that the kids are taking school a lot more seriously now at that particular school. In 2007, Vashon has 2 D1 football prospects that have qualified. One of them is 6'4 270 OL Jarrett Ford. I forget who the other kids is. Ford has several division 1 offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 16, 2006 Author Share Posted August 16, 2006 >>vtime said, >> >>"How can you say that he had nothing to do with Polk getting >>out. You say kids like Polk were getting out regardless. >>Why?" >> >>because polk approached his academics from the very >>beginning with a higher priority. obviously that had to do >>with some parental input, but still i am convinced dwayne >>would have succeeded regardless of where he went to high >>school and who his coach was." >> >>vtime said, >> >>"What was Floyd supposed to do, kick them off the team and >>ruin any chance they had of going to college at all." >> >>ironically, if floyd had shown some tough love early on in >>his career and indeed kicked kids off that didnt want to do >>the academics, my bet is that it would have sent a message >>to future wolverines that in order to play for the mighty >>vashon program you better be serious about your schoolwork. >>so to answer your question, yes, kick them off and maybe you >>save more future kids. >> >>vtime said, >> >>"They could at least showcase their talents at JUCO." >> >>see here is where you are missing the whole point. >>"showcasing their talent at juco doesnt fix their academic >>distress. a player goes to a juco and still doesnt put in >>the time or take the right classes will still be on the >>outside looking in at most division one schools. so unless >>the player you are talking about is a surefire nba player, >>your showcasing is no help to the student athletes. >> >>vtime said, >> >>" Also I know for a fact that it's the ACT more than >>in-school work that keeps the kids out of college. >> >>and i guess you think in order to get a 28 on an act test >>you can just waltz into the testing room and do it? to >>succeed on the act you better have been doing your classroom >>work as well. the reason the act keeps kids out is when >>students are in a bogus academic setting that is just giving >>grades and not presenting the material needed to be able to >>pass the act. if you know of an honor student that >>struggled with the act, i would immediately question that >>school the student in question came from. obviously the >>school did not prepare that student for the next level and >>gave away the grades. > >You said kick some kids off to save some future kids? I >dont understand how kicking off an eligible player is in the >best interest of the kid. As of late Floyd's kids have been >qualifying. He has 6 kids D1 in the last 3 classes, and >only Muse had to go JUCO I brought up the JUCO point >because all of his kids could at the very least play JUCO >when they are done at Vashon because they played at his >program. Mineral Area in particular picks up any Vashon >bench warmer who wants to come. They took Hicks in 04 and >Pembelton in 05. The point is at JUCO, they'll get 2 years >of college paid for and as long as they are eligible they >will have a lot of, if not all of the work required to get >an associate degree. Another Vashon 2006 graduate Jerry >Brown is going D1 in football. He's playing DL for >Illinois. Sounds to me like the guys who have dreams and >want something more for themselves are qualifying while >those who dont are falling by the wasteside. All you can do >is encourage a kid to do the right thing. In the end, its >up to them. I mentioned Hicks in the previous thread. That's DeAlan Hicks for those of you not familiar with area hoops. He was a promising sophomore at Kirkwood before transferring to Vashon for his last two seasons. He was a role player for Vashon who finished his career on the undefeated title team of 2004. He is still in college and will be a junior this fall and on the basketball team for Clark Atlanta University which is a D2 school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 i never said it would be in the best interests directly of the kid being kicked off the team, however now that you say that, the sooner the kid in question is smacked in the face with reality the better. what i said was maybe if a kid had been kicked off early on in irons tenure at vashon, future kids would have known it was all about academics to be a wolverine and future kids would have been saved because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 "It wouldn't surprise me if Floyd is a cad." I didn't even know Floyd liked fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 correction to the above post. Ford is 315lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecrewfinance Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 BRoy, I agree EXACTLY with what you said. ACT's prove that every school isn't teaching to the same level of difficulty or requiring the same level of proficiency. Standardized tests serve as a pretty good benchmark to compare GPA's with. It serves to compare the kids at school A who earn a 3.0 GPA and score a 30 with the kids at school B who earn a 3.4 GPA and score a 21, proving that perhaps the kids at school A are better prepared when compared to kids at school B. That said, I'm not sure that GPA and graduation rates should even figure in to deciding if this guy should be fired. Having an audit allegedly discover that much misappropriated money should trigger an automatic firing. That's something that most firms/organizations would consider a gross violation of a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 >BRoy, I agree EXACTLY with what you said. ACT's prove that >every school isn't teaching to the same level of difficulty >or requiring the same level of proficiency. Standardized >tests serve as a pretty good benchmark to compare GPA's >with. It serves to compare the kids at school A who earn a >3.0 GPA and score a 30 with the kids at school B who earn a >3.4 GPA and score a 21, proving that perhaps the kids at >school A are better prepared when compared to kids at school >B. > >That said, I'm not sure that GPA and graduation rates should >even figure in to deciding if this guy should be fired. >Having an audit allegedly discover that much misappropriated >money should trigger an automatic firing. That's something >that most firms/organizations would consider a gross >violation of a contract. I disagree. People are not standardized, so tests shouldnt be standardized. There are students that are very smart that just dont test well. At Normandy, you're required to sign up for the ACT as a junior, I'm not sure if a lot of schools require kids to sign up and take it or not. I know High School grads who never took it. Its not that the schools aren't teaching to the same level of difficulty its the low expectations. I went to Whitfield where the teachers pushed you to do the work and were on your case if you didnt do it. At Normandy, it was the same work, but a lot of the teachers just graded what you gave them and didnt push you to do the homework or make up work that you missed. The schools were about the same, just smaller class sizes at Whitfield so you couldnt blend in and fall into the cracks and the color of the students were different. The class size issue is a big deal. Classes of 25+ are the norm and kids dont get nearly the kind of attention they deserve. Many times the teacher doesnt even know their names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 vtime this is exactly the problem. and it is what a SAINT coach would be doing not just encouraging but insisting that the kids are pushed to the limit academically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 >vtime this is exactly the problem. and it is what a SAINT >coach would be doing not just encouraging but insisting that >the kids are pushed to the limit academically. He's not a SAINT, but who is? He's a great basketball coach who gives kids every chance to go to nice school if they put in the schoolwork. Any kid who doesnt take advantage of that is a fool. Stop blaming the coach, blame the kids and their parents. No one ever had to make me do my work. I knew if I didnt learn anything I would be stupid, and if I didn't go to college, I would have no means to support myself. There have been honor students on every Vashon team, the Washington's, Hill's, Polk's, and Boone's. All the teammates that were struggling had to was ask for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 a great coach does value academics over athletics. irons hasnt proven that with his track record. a great coach doesnt charge kids a dollar to be able to wear whatever they want for a day and put that dollar in his pocket. a great coach doesnt decide to name a court after himself and have the floor painted on the financially struggling school's nickel without the school's authority. a great coach doesnt pay his friends obscene amounts to broadcast high school football and basketball games on cable tv without the school's authority a great coach doesnt spend the school districts money for uniforms and ten times the typical cost without the school districts approval a great coach doesnt double bill the school district and nike for those same uniforms without an explanation of where those dollars went to a great coach doesnt beat up students at the school a great coach doesnt recruit players to leave better academic schools to come to his school just to play basketball when it would have benefitted that student far more to have stayed in the better academic facility. now if floyd irons could reverse all of the above and still win his state tournaments, then i would say he is a "great coach". until then he should probably be in jail at worst unemployed which he rightfully finally is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 17, 2006 Author Share Posted August 17, 2006 1.What station are the games aired on? 2. Most of what you said is unfounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 charter. slaten read the check numbers and amounts on the air a couple of weeks ago that verified johnson was indeed getting paid huge dollars to broadcast the games. the gym floor is painted correct? school board says it was never ok'd. the uniform thing is an example of irons taking advantage of the poor record keeping. there is no defending the academic record of vashon. sure a few more kids have made it as of late, but even that number is unacceptable. the kid getting beat up is public record. sorry vtime your boy, when it comes down to it, is a borderline criminal that should not go looking for a fight imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 18, 2006 Author Share Posted August 18, 2006 >charter. > >slaten read the check numbers and amounts on the air a >couple of weeks ago that verified johnson was indeed getting >paid huge dollars to broadcast the games. > >the gym floor is painted correct? school board says it was >never ok'd. > >the uniform thing is an example of irons taking advantage of >the poor record keeping. > >there is no defending the academic record of vashon. sure a >few more kids have made it as of late, but even that number >is unacceptable. > >the kid getting beat up is public record. > >sorry vtime your boy, when it comes down to it, is a >borderline criminal that should not go looking for a fight >imo. What station are the Vashon games aired on? How come no one ever mentions that the money for uniforms was for the entire PHL including boys and girls at both the varsity and jv levels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willen Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Roy, I thought all schools had something similar to this system. I'd be really surprised if Vashon and all public highschools don't have something like this in place already. Usually a low GPA results in some sort of suspension or academic probation. You say in other posts in this thread that you think Floyd should have kicked kids off the team who weren't performing academically. Don't you think they deserve suspension or probation over dismissal? Personally, I've never heard of a kid being kicked off of a team outright for academic reasons. That being said, I went to SLUH and you get asked to leave school if you're cumulative gpa falls below 2.0. What happened most often with this is that guys would be academically ineligible that semester because of the previous semester's grades and they would quit the team on thier own because they didn't want to practice without being able to play. I'm also totally ignorant on public school's policies on this kind of thing. Are we sure Vashon doesn't have suspensions and academic probation? If they do I think its out of the coach's hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUBALLS Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stor...31?OpenDocument A bit coincidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 I saw that on the news. Very disturbing, but I would view the "link" to Irons as a stretch...a long stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 There is no causal link to Irons. That said, getting plugged ten times, and then having a gunman come back and administering TWO coup de graces, translates into an execution to anyone who served in the military or law enforcement. Someone wanted Mr. Bacon very dead. Follow the motivation trail and you are likely to find the three executioners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.