slufanskip Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Agreed Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 i talked to jamal at the shootout. he is limping a little. and he has a lot of steel in the way of plates and screws in his body, but he said he will be ok. he is still coaching at the juco level. good guy. but not as good of a player as josh fisher imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I have seen Tommie play but have not seen Dwayne. No disrepect intended by not mentioning him ... just that Tommie really has very good court awareness and vision Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Also ... Tommie was not Shaun ... but he has NO help on his team. He creates many easy opportunities that get wasted. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastballer45 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Great point on your ending paragraph Billikenroy could't have said it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastballer45 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 So if you dont use a crossover dribble all the time you can't be a point guard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastballer45 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 As a point guard would you say that dribble penetration is a big key in a motion offense? I have noticed that when you get the ball over half court a key to the motion offense is movement. If you start to dribble penetrate right off the bat it messes up the offense. Fisher penetrates and takes the ball to the hole hard, if he sees someone open when he does they are gonna get the ball. If not he is gonna either go to the line or have a great look at the hoop. He has done this all year and will continue to.For you to say he is not a true point still cant figure that out. 6'2" or 6'3" great ball handler hardly ever turns the ball over and I don't rembember him getting his pocket picked, moves the ball, always finds the open guy, and free throws this year, so great concentration, must be in game shape already. And his 3s will start to fall I remember last year at the end of the season say last 10 games he shot the lights out of the ball. Dont see this kid do to many wrong things. So Like other posters I would take fisher as my point any time. Someone also said he cant compete against good teams,that is when fisher plays his best. To quality games in two years against arizona, played great against missouri,shut down every player any team has thrown at him. Duane wade and alot of other good players. So to say he doesn't compete with big name teams is a joke. I think fisher is the best player on this team and would not even wanna watch what would happen to the billikens this year if they lost him. He will keep this team in games down the stretch with his solid all around play. Still averaging close to 15 a game and that is gonna go up. Once evereyone on this team figures out the offense and plays solid defense and the team plays a 40 min game they are gonna be good and they are gonna beat some really good teams. So go Billikens !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Westcoast ... how do I say this without being offensive ... because it is not intended. I would venture to guess that you have not played much ball. Fisher is playing the point and is doing an adequate job ... but he is really a 2 ... and I think a very good one ... as I said before if he was able to have played the 2 for a couple of years instead of always being thrust into the 1, I think he would be a better player today. His physical tools are better suited for the 2. He can shoot and he can drive and score. With more time at the 2 he would have probably developed more of a midrange game also. At the point ... his strengths are ball control and consistency. You said he can go to the basket and if there is an open man he can get it to him. ... He needs to create the open situation with his drive ... sorry but if you think he drives and creates open layups for his teamates or swings the ball to an open player for an easy jump shot ... you are watching a different game than I am. When JF drives his intent is to score ... nothing wrong with that ... it is just the mentality of a 2 not a 1. Josh does not have great vision either. Coach recruited a true 1 in Brandon Morris because he knew he didn't have one. We as a team get very few easy baskets ... that is due to lack of a real pt. I am not knocking Josh ... I am a big fan ... as I know you are. His ppg average ... will not go up. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 josh fisher maybe isnt flashy, but he does a very good job. like i said above, there is a big reason that slu does such a great job with turnovers. and josh is it. for every wild exciting play a non-josh fisher point guard might make, there also might be an extra turnover or two as well. i have never been a big eric snow of the sixers fan, mainly because he sent larry out of philly more or less. but the fact is he is a very effective point guard that more than gets the job done. besides the turnovers (or lack of them), josh is shutting down the opposing star on defense. then couple that with the fact that currently for players that have shot at least 30 free throws this year, josh currently ranks 4th in the nation with 95% made. btw, 30 is a lot of free throws apparently at this stage in the season as well, so another aspect he is doing a great job at, getting to the line. i went back the last 15 years and looked at our point guards over that time span. as i suspected, this season for josh is on pace to be a season that can probably only be compared with waldman's two seasons at the point and charlie newberry's senior season. charlie of course played two other seasons as the billiken point guard, but they were no where near his senior season. i am not considering marque last year as a point guard, because he simply did not play there. however he did play point exclusively his freshman and sophomore seasons and split time with josh there his junior season. but even then, those 3 seasons of marque dont compare. here are the previous point guards over the past 15 years which i have somewhat ranked. we could argue the spots down the list forever. but you will see the trends. now tell me, where does josh's current pace of 13.8 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.9 apg, 2.3 spg, 1.8 topg, 95% ft's 45% fgs and 32% 3's rank? imo, there is little doubt he ranks near if not the top. one note, steve doesnt have the 96 season of stats for us, however i doubt carlos mccauley's return for his senior season at the helm after h's two seasons, would change this argument. player............season..ppg...rpg...apg...spg...topg..ft%...fg%..3% C Newberry.......89-90...12.8...2.9...5.7...1.5...2.8...87...44..41 H Waldman........94-95...11.3...2.4...4.8...2.4...1.7...77...45...43 H Waldman........93-94...10.3...2.7...5.2...1.8...2.4...80...44...41 K Footes.........90-91...13.9...4.3...4.5...1.4...3.0...68...49...35 M Perry..........01-02...14.1...2.7...3.3...0.9...2.6...76...43...25 M Perry..........00-01...10.1...2.7...3.4...1.2...2.6...76...42...31 O Stewart........90-91...10.1...2.8...3.4...1.3...2.0...68...40...40 J Winfield.......91-92...9.5....5.8...3.0...1.0...3.7...55...48...16 J Fisher.........02-03...8.2....2.6...3.7...1.2...2.2...72...44...34 C Newberry.......88-89...6.8....2.2...3.6...0.9...2.0...79...49...41 J Fisher.........01-02...6.3....2.2...3.3...1.5...1.0...65...38...37 D Ferguson.......98-99...9.1....2.1...1.9...1.0...1.7...77...39...31 J Walker.........97-98...6.1....2.1...3.9...1.3...2.1...62...36...35 J Biles..........96-97...7.4....2.6...2.0...1.4...2.0...65...31...28 D Ferguson.......99-00...6.7....2.1...2.2...2.2...2.1...79...44...33 J Walker.........96-97...6.0....2.3...2.6...0.9...1.7...53...34...24 C Newberry.......87-88...5.7....1.5...3.5...0.6...2.3...69...52...33 M Perry..........99-00...6.0....1.1...2.0...0.4...2.3...69...46....9 J Walker.........98-99...3.2....2.5...2.7...1.0...2.2...52...32...21 C McCauley.......92-93...3.0....2.0...2.9...1.1...2.8...67...34...18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastballer45 Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Hey billikenroy thanks for spitting out the facts better than I did. Slufanskip mayabe when Josh was recruited in Highschool the coaches were recruiting him as a point and not a two guard.Sometimes coaches see a player in highschool and envision him player another position. I have played a little ball in my time and not knowing your background won't speculate.But mine is about 14 years I really played every year starting in grade school. For you to say josh doesnt get his players open looks is ridiculous He probably should have had at least 30 to 40 more assists last year if people would have finished under the basket.Love kenny brown but at times during the game he couldn't catch the ball if his life depended on it.Watch during the game if someone is hot who Fisher gets the ball to. He doesnt stand out and dribble and go one on one. He finds that guy I cant remember how many times josh found diener opon on a consistant basis last year.Its not like Chris Braun was a go to guy in the post I mean how many passes did he foul up last year. He did have a great hook shot though. Ha Ha .We have yet to develope our post game this year but when we do and the bigs are playing with confidence they will get the ball. Right now with sloan slumping (great player will see him back to his old self soon they need you chris or we are in trouble)fredricks is playing well and JJ is coming around. But fisher finds the open guy. But yeah your right if he gets a step on his guy at the hoop he should go and go strong like he has been doing all year. He can body up with any guard in college basketball. Fisher is not a 2 guard playing out of position he is a point guard that is where he has played since he got here. In highschool he played every position except for the five.His size puts him at the 2 or 3 maybe needs to have a couple inches more to be a true three. So you can say what you want slufanskip but you fisher is a point guard now at thats how he will go down in the books at slu forbidding any injuries to any players and things go the way the should. Fisher could have one of the best seasons a point guard at slu has ever had and for not being a point guard according to you just shows what a great mentally touch fundamentally sound hard working kid can do. Who else on the team do you want to be the point guard slufanskippy? Great job fisher and keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 We will have to just disagree on this one. I am not knocking JF ... I have said many times he is solid and consistent ... but I don't think he is creative. Time will tell on this one ... Josh should play after SLU ... watch he will play the 2. I think him playing the point at SLU has hurt his development. BTW ... I congratulate JF for being unselfish enough to play where he is needed. I am a JF fan. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 slufanskip said when commenting on josh's ability as a point guard, "I don't think he is creative." as my research shows, in the last 15 years, there have only been three players with more assists per game than josh in a season than what josh has averaged this year. let's also not lose sight of the fact that josh is closing in on the billiken all-time assist record for a career. not bad for someone not creative. or does this just say we havent had any point guards to speak of for the last 15 seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 "or does this just say we havent had any point guards to speak of for the last 15 seasons?" That's pretty close to the truth. We need a dynamic point guard almost as badly as we need a post player who can score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 Except for H. I would say we haven't had many real good point guards. Also remember this will be Josh's 4th year here ... many of our point guards have only played 2. What is Josh's best assist per game average? Also I am not sayin g Josh has done a bad job ... his 4 assists and low turnovers show that he is consistent and safe. If you think he is a great or even very good point guard then that's fine ... I just don'r see that as being his natural position. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 So ... someone who agrees with me... Thank you Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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