Lori Flanagan the new AD

[volfan]

Is Lori Flanagan a canidate for the new AD position. She has been there the longest and knows what is going on at SLU.

[DeSmetBilliken]

Actually, Doug McIllhagga, SLU's Sports Information Director, has been at SLU longer than Flanagan. Doug and his staff do an awesome job.

[billiken_roy]

i think doug is very overated. if he is so awesome, then why does slu NOT have the media in their "hip pocket" here in st louis. imo, his job should be more than handing out stats and printing a kick a$$ media guide. (which btw i think slu has the best i have ever seen and apparently they do a great job of handling the stat thing as well) since the media comes through the sid's office when the approach slu, a "great" sid, would make sure by developing and enhancing relationships with the media members that he is able to "work" the media and get the most favorable coverage both in quanitity and content. this would also help slu in recruiting and fund raising. i dont think anyone thinks that slu gets the best coverage in st louis. the day we are "it" in st louis, at least collegiate coveragewise, is the day i will say our sid is doing a great job.

[tseugnekillib]

broy, "the day we are 'it' in st. louis", is the day SLU men's bball plays in a couple of Sweet 16's, or a couple Elite Eights', and a Final Four. It will also help if the men's soccer team wins another NCAA title or two. On the women's side, just making the NCAA tournaments in bball, volleyball and soccer will also help the SID group in earning space in the P-D. Doug Mc cannot buy the articles with free dinners and free beer, no way. Winning and winning big is the only answer to sports page coverage. (Cheating is another way to get sports page attention, but that's not an option at SLU.)

p.s., winning BIG is also is the key ingredient (80%) in SLU's marketing efforts. You have to have a product to market!

[billiken_roy]

to a degree i agree with you. however, there are far too many media guys that openly treat us second class to believe that we ARE doing everything we can to win these guys over.

[TheBand]

Roy, What can be done? Studies and polls (as well as attendence) have obviously shown the news directors and sports directors in this town that the Billikens (when they arent winning) dont warrent an in-depth interview every night. When SLU beats the "big-boys" we get the play we deserve, other nights (playing Ark Pine-Bluff) we get the score, a highlight or 2 and maybe a quote...not bad in this era of 2 1/2 minutes of sports on the late news. In season we have a SLU guest pretty regularly on the sunday shows (even Dan Donigan makes appearances) and the PD has come up with several feature articles each season lately in addition to the gameday, post game and weekly college hoops wraps.

We are the fourth (soon to be third with the looming NHL strike) place team (sometimes fifth due to Mizzou's ups and downs) in town and I accept that. Do you think that the Mizzou folks do anything different than what SLU does? Is Chad Moller out wining and dining people to get "positive press" from people? Is that what you want the SLU folks to do?

The Editors and News and Sports directors are the ones that ultimately decide how much "airtime" SLU gets...and thats based a lot more on what the audiences want to hear as well as a compelling product (winning).

the SLU SID office is regarded as one of the best in the industry. thats a fact. It wouldnt be that way without Doug Mac's leadership.

Doug is the personable and likeable guy that Woolard wasnt.

PS. It also doesnt help that Mizzou has a plethora of Journalism school grads in town and SLU doesnt b/c of the lack or a j-school

[billiken_roy]

when a jeff gordon writes a condenscending piece of crap about the "little engine that could" what does doug do? my guess is nothing. what should be done is a call to jeff, thank him for the attempt, but ask if they could go to lunch and talk. then take the guy out, chit chat, ask about the wife and kids, chit chat more, eventually get around to "hey i appreciate the column, but why do you have to paint us as such? cant we get a more serious portrait?

same can be said when our own radio play by play guy "tries" to help with his mid afternoon ramblings.

or how about when harry on 1380 is telling the world that slu is afraid to play any mvc teams? after he did that the second time, i called the slu athletic people and asked if they knew he was saying that stuff. they did not. so obviously they hadnt talked to him about it. i suggested they spend some time talking to harry about it. no idea if they ever did or not. maybe "the band" knows more on that.

how about the fact that our tv guy (frank) and our radio guy (rammer) both originally came out praying and hoping and arguing that slu should join the mvc. amazingly they both jumped to the otherside of the tracks but the damage had already been done. now if i was the sid, you can bet that as soon as the whole cusa blowup thing was happening and it looked like we were hoping to head to the a-10, i would have been wining and dining all the media guys to make sure that they were on board with the future and getting their promise to help smoothly announce the happenings to be. instead we play cia dont tell anyone and the whole fricking thing gets f'd up beyond control and we still have to fight the fight with the mvc nonsense that should have never happened. if creating that atmosphere with the media isnt the sid's job, well then who's is it? i say it is.

[3star_recruit]

Phone calls and lunches aren't going to change what comes out of the media's pens and mouths. LaRussa and Martz have been criticized by the press and the talk show circuit for years now. Tino Martinez, who had a great reputation as a team guy and was defended by his manager until the end, was labeled a troublemaker. And this despite the Cardinals and Rams having the most powerful sports information appartus in town. By winning you can increase the amount of coverage but you can do very little about the tone of the coverage.

[billiken_roy]

the fact that the media did an about face for the most part after the fact on the a-10 vs mvc thing tells me you can control to a great degree what is being said or at least how it is presented.

or another perspective of winning the media. look at the comparison of stu vs timmermann. timmerman hates the billikens. there is no doubt in my mind about it. or at least he hates having to report on the billikens. every time he writes about the billikens it is a perspective that paints a picture he would just as soon be home cleaning bathrooms as watching the billikens. stu writes the truth, but he does it in a constructive manner that can be enjoyed.

stu has probably become a friend of the program and whether he now wants to admit it or not, a fan of the billikens. thus he tempers what he writes even though he writes the truth. timmerman is not a friend and writes as such. they both give the same information. but who would you rather read?

[3star_recruit]

>the fact that the media did an about face for the most part

>after the fact on the a-10 vs mvc thing tells me you can

>control to a great degree what is being said or at least how

>it is presented.

Besides Frank and Rammer, who work for SLU, who did an about face? Gordo, Claiborne, and Kilcoyne, just off the top of my head, still think we would be better off in the MVC. Bernie could care less.

>

>or another perspective of winning the media. look at the

>comparison of stu vs timmermann. timmerman hates the

>billikens. there is no doubt in my mind about it.

And no amount of lunches or phone calls is going to change that.

>stu writes the truth,

>but he does it in a constructive manner that can be enjoyed.

Exactly, Stu is a professional. Schmoozing or censuring doesn't influence what he writes.

[TheBand]

>when a jeff gordon writes a condenscending piece of crap

>about the "little engine that could" what does doug do?

I assume he laughs at the humor that Gordo was trying to create. Its a column...not a story. What was innaccurate about it? Was it Jeff's opinion? Did it generate discussion? Then thats exactly what was supposed to happen. Everything columnists write cant be positive and correct all the time, sometimes they go that other route to generate calls or letters.

>

>or how about when harry on 1380 is telling the world that

>slu is afraid to play any mvc teams?

Looks that way doesnt it...we have shortened our schedule to only have one MVC team on it a year. Again, its one person's opinion and one person's take on the situation. Is it quite a leap from scheduling one fewer MVC game to SLU being afraid that MVC teams will beat us and hurt our schedule. C'mon roy, can you honestly tell me that you believe that he believed what he was saying? (He is paid by SLU as the women's PBP voice, by the way, so he is a SLU fan)

i suggested

>they spend some time talking to harry about it. no idea if

>they ever did or not. maybe "the band" knows more on that.

Not a clue.

>

>how about the fact that our tv guy (frank) and our radio guy

>(rammer) both originally came out praying and hoping and

>arguing that slu should join the mvc.

Why is this SUCH a leap? With the Valley in town each year, offices located here and the A-10 a blip on the local radar (for the most part), what other thought would you have? Was SLU far enough along in their talks with the A-10 to justify any "leaked" information about those talks? Its a natural fit at first glance, especially since you knew that the Big 10 and Big 12 werent looking to expand with us and the closest leagues (geographicly) were the Valley and the Horizon, it made sense for them to make that leap. Do you leak the info and potentially screw up negotiations?

instead we

>play cia dont tell anyone and the whole fricking thing gets

>f'd up beyond control and we still have to fight the fight

>with the mvc nonsense that should have never happened.

Lets not forget that the "CIA" aspect of the situation may have come from above. It was an interesting "fight" and I think it proved a couple of things...that the SID can get the info out quickly and it proved SLU's goal was to continue to be a "player" in college hoops and not fall into mediocrity in the MVC

if

>creating that atmosphere with the media isnt the sid's job,

>well then who's is it?

Cant argue with creating the "atmosphere" line, but you seem to forget that the media are individuals with their own thoughts...noone can control them, they are going to write and report what THEY want (within reason) and every problem you listed was one that was based on people's opinions, not facts.

[billiken_roy]

the band said,

"Looks that way doesnt it...we have shortened our schedule to only have one MVC team on it a year. Again, its one person's opinion and one person's take on the situation. Is it quite a leap from scheduling one fewer MVC game to SLU being afraid that MVC teams will beat us and hurt our schedule. C'mon roy, can you honestly tell me that you believe that he believed what he was saying? (He is paid by SLU as the women's PBP voice, by the way, so he is a SLU fan)"

doesnt matter what i think, i am a diehard rabid sports nut and specifically a billiken fan. so a harry cant mess with me as i get more informed information because i make the extra effort for more news. however, the casual fan, which is the exact fan that isnt coming to billiken games anymore that hears what a harry says on the show will be affected by coincidental hearings or viewings of information like that. and like i said, that fan is the one that isnt coming to the games anymore. not the ones like me.

the band said about letting our own play by play guys trumpet the mvc first before the a-10,

"Why is this SUCH a leap? With the Valley in town each year, offices located here and the A-10 a blip on the local radar (for the most part), what other thought would you have? Was SLU far enough along in their talks with the A-10 to justify any "leaked" information about those talks? Its a natural fit at first glance, especially since you knew that the Big 10 and Big 12 werent looking to expand with us and the closest leagues (geographicly) were the Valley and the Horizon, it made sense for them to make that leap. Do you leak the info and potentially screw up negotiations?"

well we had been talking about the a-10 for a few weeks already here on this board. woolard had hinted about it at a few booster functions. i heard him theorize the a-10 as a possibility myself at two functions in illinois and reported it here on the board as such. i.e. rumors of the a-10 were out there already. the reason frank and rammer came out for the mvc is probably because they hadnt been told anything from slu and rumors on sites like ours or casual conversation were saying the a-10 and they thought otherwise originally (why i dont know as it was obviously the wrong choice.)

besides, if slu had been practicing what i am preaching all along, by now they would have the trusted media guys (i would hope rammer and frank would be in this trusted category) that they could share such with to help control situations exactly like this.

the band said,

"Lets not forget that the "CIA" aspect of the situation may have come from above. It was an interesting "fight" and I think it proved a couple of things...that the SID can get the info out quickly and it proved SLU's goal was to continue to be a "player" in college hoops and not fall into mediocrity in the MVC"

i totally agree it showed what eh sid office can do. my question is why was it even allowed to happen? with that kind of network power available, they should have forseen what coulda and dida.

the band said,

"Cant argue with creating the "atmosphere" line, but you seem to forget that the media are individuals with their own thoughts...noone can control them, they are going to write and report what THEY want (within reason) and every problem you listed was one that was based on people's opinions, not facts."

i had a public relations teacher at slu that told us pretty much just the opposite. i forget his name, but he did pr for first ab and later in life at channel 5. old guy, but interesting as can possibly be. he basically said that a good pr guy strives to do just the opposite of what you are saying. they build the relationships and write the releases and feed the information to CONTROL WHAT IS WRITTEN AND SAID ABOUT THEM. you are correct they cant control it all, however i cant see where SLU is controlling much of anything. they just answer questions and prepare information.

that's fine. if that is all their job expectations are fine. but this discussion started with someone thinking the slu sid was worthy of athletic director status. satisfactory work does not deserve superior job promotion. when the department is going above and beyond their expectations, then i will scream for more. but let's not promote for "just doing their job".

[DeSmetBilliken]

Roy, first of all, I never touted Doug Mc as a potential AD. I simply pointed out that Doug Mc has been at SLU longer than Lori Flanagan. Since I have seen Doug and his staff in action, I felt that I should add that they do a great job, which I still believe, and none of your arguments today have come close to changing my mind.

If the SID spent as much time as you think they should kissing up to the media by wining and dining them, then nothing else would get done. If you want someone who will do that, then a new position of Assistant AD for Kissing Up to the Media would have to be created.

People in the media are not programable robots. As far as Jeff Gordon is concerned, I don't think that Mizzou fans are always happy with what he writes, especially since he is a former Antler. I guess the Mizzou SID isn't doing a good enough job of wining and dining Gordo either.

You suggested that if someone writes a condescending piece on SLU, Doug Mc should get on the phone and suggest that they write differently next time. I would guess that professional writers would not take too kindly to an SID trying to control what they write seeing as many writers are big proponents of journalistic freedom.

You mentioned Tom Timmermann and Stu Durando. While I agree that Stu has done an outstanding job as the SLU beat writer, I wouldn't say that Timmermann hates SLU. While I haven't read all the articles he's written, I am of the opinion that maybe basketball just isn't his thing. He's the head soccer writer for the PD and is a fixture in the press box at SLU home soccer games and writes very good articles on SLU soccer. If he's not covering soccer, then his next assignment is Blues hockey. I think that he is just more into soccer and hockey than basketball.

As a writer for the University News, I could be considered to be a member of the media and have been helped by the SLU Sports Information Office on a number of occasions. I can definitely say that I have never been at a loss for stats or info on SLU or the opposing team when I have covered games. I have always been treated very well by Doug, Betsy, and Diana at SLU basketball and soccer games, when I could have very easily been looked over since I am just a college kid, not a professional. I've been treated like any other member of the media whether its been at SLU basketball games, soccer games, and also the C-USA tournament this season.

[billiken_roy]

desmet, you take my points too literal. if i dont use examples, no one would see what i see. so i used a few instances that jump out at me. let me address of a few of your points.

desmet said, "If the SID spent as much time as you think they should kissing up to the media by wining and dining them, then nothing else would get done."

i totally disagree with this thought. i am talking about 10-20 lunch, breakfast or dinner meetings a month. a person has to eat, why not schedule a few lunch meetings with the media? and it wouldnt all have to be doug meetings. the assistants on his staff could share in that. sorry, i find it hard to believe they couldnt easily add that to their routine. but if you want to add another assistant to spread the responsibilities, and that allows the department to totally stay on top of the st louis media, imo it would be money well spent.

desmet said, "If you want someone who will do that, then a new position of Assistant AD for Kissing Up to the Media would have to be created."

come on desmet.

desmet said, "People in the media are not programable robots. As far as Jeff Gordon is concerned, I don't think that Mizzou fans are always happy with what he writes, especially since he is a former Antler. I guess the Mizzou SID isn't doing a good enough job of wining and dining Gordo either."

i really couldnt care less what the missouri sid does or doesnt do. their time framss and responsibilities are a litte f'd up right now with other issues.

desmet said, "You suggested that if someone writes a condescending piece on SLU, Doug Mc should get on the phone and suggest that they write differently next time. I would guess that professional writers would not take too kindly to an SID trying to control what they write seeing as many writers are big proponents of journalistic freedom."

if you approach the writer/radio/tv guy that way, you are damn right he wont take kindly to it. but if you are truly a good pr/salesman, you ought to be able to smooze that guy and get your point across in a way that they leave the meeting thinking you are the greatest guy in the world and feeling like they owe you one. someone at the level of a sid or ad should have these skills. as an outside sales exec, i do this all day long. if these guys dont know how to do it, i am pretty sure there is a dale carnegie franchise here in west county that would love to help them learn.

desmet said, "You mentioned Tom Timmermann and Stu Durando. While I agree that Stu has done an outstanding job as the SLU beat writer, I wouldn't say that Timmermann hates SLU. While I haven't read all the articles he's written, I am of the opinion that maybe basketball just isn't his thing. He's the head soccer writer for the PD and is a fixture in the press box at SLU home soccer games and writes very good articles on SLU soccer. If he's not covering soccer, then his next assignment is Blues hockey. I think that he is just more into soccer and hockey than basketball."

if he is a professional he shouldnt let his distaste of his assignment show as badly as it did this past winter. my point is that if we are assigned a temp writer, and we know he might be doing it for a few games, i sure wouldnt be bashful about making him feel comfortable and trying to win him over.

desmet said, "As a writer for the University News, I could be considered to be a member of the media and have been helped by the SLU Sports Information Office on a number of occasions. I can definitely say that I have never been at a loss for stats or info on SLU or the opposing team when I have covered games. I have always been treated very well by Doug, Betsy, and Diana at SLU basketball and soccer games, when I could have very easily been looked over since I am just a college kid, not a professional. I've been treated like any other member of the media whether its been at SLU basketball games, soccer games, and also the C-USA tournament this season."

you have described above exactly what i think they believe the extent of their job is. provide statistics and information and write a media guide. if that is what you want the department to settle for, fine. but the world is run by salesmen and the relationships they develop. it is my belief that if we develop better relationships with the media on all levels, we will be treated better by the media when they produce their product that concerns us. sure the media will still report facts. but as a reporter yourself, surely you know that the writer has the ability to paint a picture in many ways and still provide the facts. i just want our picture to be the best picture.

[DeSmetBilliken]

>you have described above exactly what i think they believe

>the extent of their job is. provide statistics and

>information and write a media guide. if that is what you

>want the department to settle for, fine. but the world is

>run by salesmen and the relationships they develop. it is

>my belief that if we develop better relationships with the

>media on all levels, we will be treated better by the media

>when they produce their product that concerns us. sure the

>media will still report facts. but as a reporter yourself,

>surely you know that the writer has the ability to paint a

>picture in many ways and still provide the facts. i just

>want our picture to be the best picture.

I think that one problem with your argument is that most of the writers that write disparaging articles or commentaries about SLU are not frequent attendees at the Savvis Center. The only times I have seen Brian Burwell, who sometimes writes positive articles and sometimes writes negative ones, have coincided with a column by him about SLU being printed in the next day's PD. I don't think I've ever seen Gordon in the press room after a game and have only seen him on press row once or twice in my two years as a student at SLU. Charlie Tuna has a tendency to spout off on SLU, but I have only seen him at Savvis once.

Those are just a few examples, but my point is that most of the negative press about SLU come from people who do not frequently cover the Billikens, thus it could be a little more difficult to develop a stronger relationship with those guys than it is to work with guys like Frank Cusumano, Earl Austin Jr., Bob Ramsey, as well as others who have had longer associations with SLU. Heck, Gordon is considered to be below Bernie Miklasz(who has apparently been saying good things about SLU lately on the KMOX morning show), and Tuna is considered by many to be an absolute nutcase, so not only are those who criticize SLU not frequent spectators, but they also carry much less weight in the St. Louis area sports media.

As far as Burwell is concerned, he wrote a column saying SLU should go to the MVC, then a week later wrote another one that said he was wrong and that they should go to the A-10. Maybe someone at SLU did sit down with him and show him the light.

Finally, I think that the St. Louis sports media as a whole is a lot more positive on SLU than we normally give them credit for. As is the case with just about anything, people seem to be more drawn to the negative things that are mentioned. They also seem to respond more to things they disagree with rather than those with which they agree. One SLU student who occasionally would write commentaries for the University News is without a doubt the most outspoken conservative voice on the SLU campus, and he definitely presented those opinions very strongly in his commentaries (which as a Republican I personally thought were very good and agreed with), and as a result his pieces were probably the most talked about things in the UNews since so many people were offended by those remarks, which has also led to him having quite a few enemies around the SLU campus. I, on the other hand, try to present things in the best light I can and as a result have no name recognition for my writings, nor any enemies as far as I know. It could be because I'm a sportswriter and this other writer writes about more serious things, but still it proves my point that people will more likely respond things with which they disagree rather than agree.

[billiken_roy]

burnwell's change of heart was because we all e-mailed him about his thoughts and calmly gave him reasons he was wrong. you dont remember our little campaign on that? burwell even admitted in his change column that he was flooded with well reasoned e-mail if i remember correctly. which proves the point that the writers will listen if approached.

[DeSmetBilliken]

The little e-mail campaign actually did slip my mind, probably because I don't remember participating in it.