Tommie's stats

[Cowboy]

Roy, you are essentially arguing that once RM has a player at a certain position that he should no longer recruit players at that position. It is the coach's job to win. If there is somebody out there that will improve this team at any position on the floor and immediately become an impact starter you cannot logically say that he should not recruit that guy just because somebody's feelings might get hurt when their playing time decreases. I mean honestly, under your premise if Luke Meyer were still around, you would argue that it would be wrong for RM to recruit a guy like WR or JS or CE to improve at the 3/4 because it might take away Luke Meyer's playing time. That is absolutely ridiculous. With that sort of recruiting the program would never improve and would always stagnate at the level of its current roster.

Also, In the scenario set out by Clock, it wouldn't be Majerus' doing that the player leaves. It would be the choice of that player to hopefully go to a LESSER program where there won't be players better than him at that position. I can't fault a player for leaving in search of more playing time, but you cannot possibly fault RM either.

-come on Band, every transfer/kid leaving is Rick's fault

[Clock_Tower]

and you condone that. i like you clock. but for the life of me, i cant see how anyone can condone that practice. and before anyone gives the "hey that's the way it is in bigtime basketball". there are plenty of programs that wouldnt do that AND still win. i wish we would strive to be one of those programs. if that means it would take rickma 4 years instead of three to reach the promised land so be it. we've waited this long.

Roy. My scenario was intended to be one where the PLAYER decided to leave. While coaches and teammates can often make the situation unbearable for a kid, my scenario was intended to be one more like R. Cotto's leaving. Unless I am wrong, RC wanted more time this year and also to play the PG. With KM looking like a fixture the next 3 years and with TL and KL looking like they'd each be getting 35 minutes per game at the 2 and 3, IMO RC should not have been surprised. This is why it makes more sense that he left, on his own, even though RM no doubt may have been a bit rough on him. After reading your posts these past few months, I doubt that you had a problem with RM about RC's leaving.

If I am correct, you are concerned about existing/future recruits receiving the same treatment 3 or 4 of our guys received last year. I will have more of a problem if RM repeats last year but I don't think it will happen.

[billiken_roy]

Roy, you are essentially arguing that once RM has a player at a certain position that he should no longer recruit players at that position.

i have no problem recruiting over for pt. i have a huge problem running kids off that really dont want to leave. unless a kid screws up in the classroom or societywise, that kid should be allowed to finish his/her degree at slu if the student athlete so wishes regardless of how wrong a coach or former coach was on their actual skills.

[billiken_roy]

Roy. My scenario was intended to be one where the PLAYER decided to leave. While coaches and teammates can often make the situation unbearable for a kid, my scenario was intended to be one more like R. Cotto's leaving. Unless I am wrong, RC wanted more time this year and also to play the PG. With KM looking like a fixture the next 3 years and with TL and KL looking like they'd each be getting 35 minutes per game at the 2 and 3, IMO RC should not have been surprised. This is why it makes more sense that he left, on his own, even though RM no doubt may have been a bit rough on him. After reading your posts these past few months, I doubt that you had a problem with RM about RC's leaving.

If I am correct, you are concerned about existing/future recruits receiving the same treatment 3 or 4 of our guys received last year. I will have more of a problem if RM repeats last year but I don't think it will happen.

cotto indeed was cotto's decision. and by all accounts (both publically and via grapevine) i have heard that rickma went out of his way to try to appease cotto. i have no problem with that at all with rickma on the cotto situation. THAT was indeed a player decision.

[Clock_Tower]

cotto indeed was cotto's decision. and by all accounts (both publically and via grapevine) i have heard that rickma went out of his way to try to appease cotto. i have no problem with that at all with rickma on the cotto situation. THAT was indeed a player decision.

Roy. Based upon last year's conduct, you are certainly entitled to wary and cautious. If RM did it last year - 4 x's whether his recruits or not - why would he be shy about doing it again? With that said, how likely do you think RM would do that?

Remember, last year was also different b/c guys like DM and Knollmeyer had been at SLU for 2 years already and while RM certainly did bring in some recruits (at the time we had 5 b/c Cotto and Cassity had not officially been offered/accepted), no one (including last year's 4) had seen them play, they were "just Freshmen" and guys like DM and AK would have been Juniors - yes DM would have had another year of eligibility. The other 2 would have been Sophomores but, since each year is a big deal in college, since they would have already been around RM and learned his system, I believe that our departing 4 (especially DM and AK) would have naturally assumed that could compete with even talented Freshmen for their remaining 2 years before RM really got the program up and going. As good as this past season was, it was a complete rebuilding year and, had AK stayed, he'd only have 1 year left. Since DM did not play at all last year and AK played only limited minutes, neither would have reasonably been expecting many minutes, both would have realized they really weren't in all that great of demand and that it would be best to begin thinking of life after basketball. Contrast that, however, to next year when RM will have 11 (or more) of his own highly talented guys, whereby none will be 2 years older than the others, whereby 1 or 2 might see the writing on the wall, realize that success is not in the future but in the present, realize that their future playing time is not much in such a situation and then, after having an honest talk with RM realize that they still have 2 to 3 more years elsewhere.

As such, I believe future guys departing (b/c of the improved status of the team and age of the players) will be more like RC and less like last year's guys.

[JaleJarr]

Jarr. If you have details and/or want to share your insight, please do so. Unless you are a player or coach, what makes you such an insider? My guess is that you either family/friends to TL. If I am wrong, correct me.

I've made no secret of Tommie being my nephew.

Without personally knowing RM, I doubt there are many issues (politics, religion...) that he and I would agree upon. On many prior posts, I have said that he is not the ideal role model for all young NCAA coaches. As to basketball, though, he is a HOF coach with not only controversy but also proven success. Maybe you don't like him and maybe you wish he were not our coach.

I don't know Coach Majerus well enough to like or dislike him. I understand full well what he is doing in relation to the basketball program. The thought I was trying to convey is quite simple, Coach Majerus' offensive philosophy had a huge impact on Liddell's play. If you can't see that I don't know what else to say. I do however understand his reasons for doing such.

The fact of the matter is, though, is that he is our coach and I support him. RM, call him an 800 lb elephant/gorilla or whatever.

There you go with the spinning again. I did not make up these terms:

800 lb gorilla- one that is dominating or uncontrollable because of great size or power <like it or not, the 800-pound gorilla usually sets the standard- Rick Majerus

White Elephant-an object no longer of value to its owner but of value to others-Tommie Liddell

The program is bigger than any one player and if TL disliked RM that much, IMO then he should have left - 2 years ago, after last year or 1/2 way thru this year.

I don't know how to answer that. Maybe you are unaware as to how the change in coaching occurred.[/i]

Also, when the team is winning down the stretch next year, and certainly winning the year after next, SLU and RM will be basking in the glory and success and his treatment of TL and last year's 4 guys he cut a distant memory. Is this fair? No, but much in life is not fair either.

If Majerus is the stand up guy you seems to believe he is, he would have been honest enough in the very beginning with the returning players. The only reason he wasn't was due to the fact that SLU would have been looking at (3) consecutive years of losing basketball.