STL Hoops Insider Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 In the past I've seen South Carolina do it with not much more talent. I think Michigan has done it a couple of times recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkelsey55 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Lets worry about getting in before we worryabout winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARbilliken Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Lets worry about getting in before we worryabout winning. I agree---that is getting way ahead of ourselves. We've got a long way to go and too many things need to fall in place IMO for us to get into the NIT. I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I just don't know if we've done enough put feel safe in that spot yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 In the past I've seen South Carolina do it with not much more talent. I think Michigan has done it a couple of times recently. The last 2 wins really put SLU in a decent position to go to CBI/CI.com. I think they are in a solid position with 2-1, 1-1 finish. However, SLU would need a spectacular finish to get into the NIT. Even a 3-0 and 2-1 finish would put them in worse position than when they were NOT selected two years ago RPI-wise. Of course, they would have a strong finish working in their favor so that might get them the nod. RPI forecast now predicts SLU's NCAA chances at 1 in 500. NIT chances are still 1 in 50 (so they now have a much better chance at the NIT than they did a week ago). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The last 2 wins really put SLU in a decent position to go to CBI/CI.com. I think they are in a solid position with 2-1, 1-1 finish. However, SLU would need a spectacular finish to get into the NIT. Even a 3-0 and 2-1 finish would put them in worse position than when they were NOT selected two years ago RPI-wise. Of course, they would have a strong finish working in their favor so that might get them the nod. RPI forecast now predicts SLU's NCAA chances at 1 in 500. NIT chances are still 1 in 50 (so they now have a much better chance at the NIT than they did a week ago). Do you think conference rank would work in our favor? The NIT is definitely more $$ driven than the big tourney. If we finish 5th in conference, could that get three A-10 teams in? At this point SJU has a higher RPI and a lower overall and conference record. Would they get into the NIT ahead of us even if we are higher ranked in conference? My thought/hope...and it's not based on math at all...is that we could get into the NIT with a top 5 A-10 finish. That would most likely put three teams from the conference in (3-5). A-10 deserves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Do you think conference rank would work in our favor? The NIT is definitely more $$ driven than the big tourney. If we finish 5th in conference, could that get three A-10 teams in? At this point SJU has a higher RPI and a lower overall and conference record. Would they get into the NIT ahead of us even if we are higher ranked in conference? My thought/hope...and it's not based on math at all...is that we could get into the NIT with a top 5 A-10 finish. That would most likely put three teams from the conference in (3-5). A-10 deserves it. I don't think conference rank or rank in conference play much of role in selection directly. The NCAA does not appear to care at all rank in conference and selects on individual merit (yes, they will pick a 4th place team as an at-large over a 3rd place team if the 4th place team has a better overall profile). Conference rank (A-10 being 8th) probably plays a tiny role on a toss-up but not that important. I have no reason to think the NIT is any different, although as an NCAA property they have more reason to follow the committee's process. Remember SLU was the 4th seed (and LaSalle the 3rd) in the A-10 three years ago when the 48-team (since 32) NIT selected Temple (9th) and St. Josephs' (5th) because of better RPI. I think rank in conference probably plays a role when two teams are from the same conference and close but otherwise not (so we may get a nod over Duquesne/St. Joe's if we beat them, finish ahead of them, but have a worse RPI). Anyway, if we are talking about the NIT then a win over Duquesne is pretty likely a must. There is an outside chance that if A-10 bubble teams all get in (3 teams) that the A-10 gets one in the NIT (if St. Joe's and Duquesne continue their fall) and 3-4 A-10 teams end in in CBI/CI.con. Remember that the NIT gives out a lot of "automatics" for regular season champions in one-bid leagues so it is not like the "next 32 best teams" get in. The NIT is much more sensitive to upsets in conference tourneys than the NCAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Do you think conference rank would work in our favor? The NIT is definitely more $$ driven than the big tourney. If we finish 5th in conference, could that get three A-10 teams in? At this point SJU has a higher RPI and a lower overall and conference record. Would they get into the NIT ahead of us even if we are higher ranked in conference? My thought/hope...and it's not based on math at all...is that we could get into the NIT with a top 5 A-10 finish. That would most likely put three teams from the conference in (3-5). A-10 deserves it. nashville, remember, the ncaa now owns the nit. so the purpose and process is far different than in previous nit days. i think the ncaa sees the nit now as a true extension of the ncaa tourney now and they try to basically just fill the next tier of bubble teams and conference regular season champs that lost their tourney but didnt have the at large juice to get picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenthyearsenior Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Forget the NIT. The bills need to win the A10 tourney and go to the big dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 nashville, remember, the ncaa now owns the nit. so the purpose and process is far different than in previous nit days. i think the ncaa sees the nit now as a true extension of the ncaa tourney now and they try to basically just fill the next tier of bubble teams and conference regular season champs that lost their tourney but didnt have the at large juice to get picked. Yes, this is no longer the old friendly NIT, whose committee knew the Billikens. With an RPI of 107, I fear that SLU is still on the outside looking in re the NIT. And there's just not much way for SLU's RPI to significantly improve, especially with the increased weight the newer RPI gives to road wins. Let me also say that I don't think this is just, as IMO SLU is better than a number of those teams who have better RPI's. That is pretty obvious by just watching the games, even through my Billiken Blue hued glasses. But the CSI (Common Sense Index) is not used by the NCAA or NIT Committees. If SLU can get a CBI or CI.com bid, which is more probable, here's hoping the SLU fans understand the situation and do not complain or balk. Kevin Lisch and Tommie Liddell III deserve to play in a post-season tournament. And the freshmen could use that post-season experience. Also, even if perhaps improbable, I'm not giving up on SLU winning the A-10 Tournament. Re that, Tom Timmerman wrote about avoiding Xavier as long as possible. The hope would be someone else upsetting Xavier. But that's unlikely, and it might well be better to play Xavier earlier, when the SLU team is fresher. To win this A-10 Tourney, SLU is going to have to beat Xavier, Temple, or possibly even both, anyway. As I recall, the 2000 team beat Cincinnati in the C-USA Tournament quarterfinals when Kenyon Martin went down. Nevertheless, I still think the goal should be to finish at least 4th and get the first round bye. Per TT, that's going to be tough to do, given the tiebreakers. If SLU finishes 4th or 5th, that will likely translate into playing Xavier in the semifinals. Finishing 4th would mean closer to equal rest for that game; finishing 5th would mean SLU would have played an extra game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 I would hope a 20 win season would do it, with wins over no. 25 Dayton, some of the best in the conference and the Boston College win in non-conference. The Billikens should be among the top 97 teams in the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I would hope a 20 win season would do it, with wins over no. 25 Dayton, some of the best in the conference and the Boston College win in non-conference. The Billikens should be among the top 97 teams in the country stlhi, where your math is wrong is that you forget about subtracting the 18 conferences that get a guaranteed spot that have absolutely no business in the "top 65" of the ncaa. then add a few conference upset champions in the other 13 conferences, then the nit will take the teams from those weak conferences that got upset in their conference tourney so figure another 5 or so spots that go out to lower rpi teams and you got at least 25-30 teams that will get spots before to "top 97". so really a team better finish in the top 70 to put your team in position for consideration on an nit spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-West & PO-Z Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The last 2 wins really put SLU in a decent position to go to CBI/CI.com. I think they are in a solid position with 2-1, 1-1 finish. However, SLU would need a spectacular finish to get into the NIT. Even a 3-0 and 2-1 finish would put them in worse position than when they were NOT selected two years ago RPI-wise. Of course, they would have a strong finish working in their favor so that might get them the nod. RPI forecast now predicts SLU's NCAA chances at 1 in 500. NIT chances are still 1 in 50 (so they now have a much better chance at the NIT than they did a week ago). I think that if SLU goes 3-0 the rest of the way they are in the NIT. We would be 11-5 in the A10 which is better than the conference record from the last time SLU had 20 wins and got left out. If we go 3-0 and one tourney win in the A10 I think its close to a lock. Also while the RPI plays a part, it plays much less of a part than people realize. The NCAA selection committee has said as much in the past. Also having a good venue to host the games is an important thing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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