MVC or A10 Refs?

[Taj79]

Over in the "should this rivalry end?" thread, responder mtripp said about the refs something to the effect that they were A10 refs and not MVC refs and we were "boobs" to think otherwise and should "eat crow."

So I checked, which is probably a good thing to do mtripp before your throw crow around and call us names. But the media guide for the Missouri Valley Conference names their league officials, and Dwayne Gladden and Terry Wymer are both on it. Now, as for the third ref, the boxscore says its was Craig Boroski and while the MVC does not list a "Craig" it does list a "Bo" Boroski. What are the chances he is the same guy? Probably pretty good.

But research is not enough if its not complete, so I checked with the A10 media guide, and, lo' and behold, the same three guys are listed there as A10 refs as well. So whomever talked about Ramsey on the radio dissing these three guys as "worse than A10 refs" ably demonstrated that Mr. Ramsey or whomever made the comment, didn't do his research either. So guess what, all parties are right making this a first-ever cataclysmic explosion on the Billiken Board. Right on!

Having a father who's a referee, I happen to know that referees are essentially individuals who contract their services to the various schools and conferences. They may band into a regional association almost like collective bargaining --- take all of us or none of us. The process can start as early as the referee does, moving from something like a CYO league to a high school league to AAU to junior college leagues and so on up the chain. In the old days of two-man teams, partners could ride each other's coattails and move up. Sometimes, it not what you know, its who you know. I am sure the same thing happens with three-man teams. Eventually, your rep grows and you turn into a Ron Hightower who is liked and respected at all levels and gets all sorts of gigs. An official with multiple league endorsements is only guaranteeing his availabilty to make a secondary income.

Having said that, when I went to the MVC listing, there was actually a sign-in page that was password protected. I believe that is where a coach or AD can go to rate the official on his game performance. Officials are rated after each game, according to my dad. The home team, because they contract to get officials for their home games, have the voting privileges. Not the visiting team. At least as far as my dad's referee system is concerned. While it is stated that fairness is the key and all officials should be unbiased and call an equal game, short of internal fortitude, why would anyone believe that's the case in every case. You don't think that, maybe in the back of the mind, a 50/50 call goes one way for a reason? We've all seen the proverbial make-up call. I don't mind those providing they balance out a call but to me, that's a traveling call or a stepped on the line call and not a foul that hurts the other team --- unless its to make up a foul on the other side. You don't think that happens?

You go into SIU or SLU or Omaha for a few nights, and get consistently bad ratings from the home team, you ain't likely to be going back there much in the future. So your income is affected. And schools talk. Dad has been blackballed by a number of schools in his league. He doesn't really care ---- he's 78 now. I want to be running up and down a court or football field when I'm 78! I get to do that, and I'll consider life to have been pretty good. Of ocurse, you can't blackball everyone, there is only a limited supply to meet your demand. years ago, I sat courtside in media row for a Louisville/UAB game. I think I owuld have had to foul every player out at least by halftime, if I called everything correctly. Another job I frankly wouldn't want.

So refs will be refs will be refs. Every now and then, a ref of some sort will blow a call or a game or a series (hello? Don Denkinger). And like the lottery, its a chance every team takes in every game. The point to me, once again, is that is somewhat expected and talent and preperation can overcome that. Talent is the key, and we will get there.

Home teams generally contract for the referees. I will accept any input from someone who knows more. The examples used most likely do not cover all scenarios.

[troutangler]

You're pretty much right on as far as I know. My knowledge of D1 referee stuff is limited, but I know they're independent contractors. The schools may actually have a signed contract with each official for a game, but an assignor may assign the games to the official instead of the school picking each referee. Most high school referees are in associations. The association "serves" any number of schools in a given area that pay the association a fee to provide them with officials.

[UIalum]

The refs from the game:

Dwayne Gladden

Craig Boroski

Terry WYmer

SIU-SLU Stat Sheet

None of these guys were MVC or A10 refs...

Dwayne Gladden has done significantly more A10 games however.

Stop crying no refs in the world would have helped win that game.

[jp18]

The refs from the game:

Dwayne Gladden

Craig Boroski

Terry WYmer

SIU-SLU Stat Sheet

None of these guys were MVC or A10 refs...

Dwayne Gladden has done significantly more A10 games however.

Stop crying no refs in the world would have helped win that game.

I agree that the Bills would not have won if the refs were different. The Bills played a bad game and didn't deserve to win. But with that said, the handchecking by the Carbondale was out of control. There is no reason to let that go. My dad and I were at the game and he was a high school and college ref for 20-plus years. He NEVER complains about officiating since he knows the demands. He always gives the refs the benefit of the doubt, but he even said that there was no reason to let that stuff go. That meant more to me than anything said on this board. That game was brutal to watch. The Salukis had their hands all over the Bills as soon as they crossed half court.

[billiken_roy]

4 blown charge calls that the billiken concerned whistled had made layup and should have headed to the free throw line = 12 points taken away from the billikens

2 moronic technicals whistled by guilt ridden "god i blew that" referees = 8 points gifted to the salukis

final score 64-48 salukis

final score adjusted for the minimum stupidity/cheating by the refs mentioned above

60-56 billikens

we didnt even get into the fact that until the last two minutes of the game when the zebras were rushing to try to even the fouls the fouls whistled favored the saluki's 2-1 even though the saluki's were the aggressors the entire game.

[Kbrew]

I agree that the Bills would not have won if the refs were different. The Bills played a bad game and didn't deserve to win. But with that said, the handchecking by the Carbondale was out of control. There is no reason to let that go. My dad and I were at the game and he was a high school and college ref for 20-plus years. He NEVER complains about officiating since he knows the demands. He always gives the refs the benefit of the doubt, but he even said that there was no reason to let that stuff go. That meant more to me than anything said on this board. That game was brutal to watch. The Salukis had their hands all over the Bills as soon as they crossed half court.

The Salukis are well coached in their physical play and I'm sure are told to play that way to the max until the refs stop it. (Kind of like the Patriots mugging Marshall Faulk every time he came out of the backfield for a pass in the Super Bowl). The picture in the PD of Mullins putting an arm bar on Kevin is a great example. Fairly subtle but very effective. It just makes for ugly basketball and just is not good for the sport. It's up to the refs to control it.

[brianstl]

I am not sure the officiating made a difference in if we won or lost the game, but it was brutal. We had key calls go against us at key moments in the game. Whenever Rickma gets a T you can be sure the officiating is extremely bad. He works the refs less than almost any coach in the game.

[billiken_roy]

I am not sure the officiating made a difference in if we won or lost the game, but it was brutal. We had key calls go against us at key moments in the game. Whenever Rickma gets a T you can be sure the officiating is extremely bad. He works the refs less than almost any coach in the game.

totally agree. rickma is probably the most composed sideline coach i have ever watched since john wooden. he just coaches the kids and lets the game play out. for him to go that ballistic is just so out of character that the cause had to be there.

[GOSLU68]

totally agree. rickma is probably the most composed sideline coach i have ever watched since john wooden. he just coaches the kids and lets the game play out. for him to go that ballistic is just so out of character that the cause had to be there.

Really have to agree that RM just couldn't take it anymore but our last home game saw him go to the refs without a technical when KL was forearmed to the face and knocked on the floor under the basket and had to leave the game bleeding. The scoop on playing the Bills has to be brutalize them and you have a greater chance as TL and KL are good clean, finesse players and Conklin or BT had better step up as an enforcer or this team is going to see these kids on the floor more often. This is not the NHL

[ColProd]

AGAIN, there were just as many bad calls going against SLU. The refs sucked, but they were sucked equally for both teams. Trust me, I was right underneath the basket, I saw plenty of blown and/or missed calls BOTH ways. Sorry guys, try a new topic for your loss, like poor shooting percentages on open shots. Young team, we've had the same problem every now and then, just not to the same extent...*knock on wood*