What would other coaches have done...

[moytoy12]

...with this team? Huggins, Pitino, Calipari, Howland, Bennett, Sutton, Knight, Crean, Weber, Self, Coach K...? I think some...actually...I think most would have done more with this team this year than Majerus. I am really disappointed with the coaching staff. Why? Why with so little talent that you were bemoaning them, Moy? I think great coaches get the most out of their players. Because i'm not a perfectionist, but an 80/20 guy and I think that RM is trying to be perfect when 20% of his coaching ability would give this team 80% of the desired results (being a perfectionist is just wasteful...and kind of dumb). I think RM is really being a stubborn ass when he won't seemingly meld his style to the team at hand.

I guess I am bummed about the team and the coaches. Both get a D+ in my book (i don't think either totally gave up the other night). This team also lacks D-1 talent. Thanks Brad. You f'ed us. TL. Great. KL. Great. LM. Great. Ummm...the rest of you...you're alright. Is it that tough to learn a new offense guys...? It ain't brain surgery.

I blame everyone.

[Taj79]

I disagree. I don't think there is a great player on this team. Adequate? Maybe but in the proper context. Hughes was a great player. Burns was a great player. Bonner was but not in the same sense as Hughes because Hughes was great one and done while Bonner didn't exactly set the world on fire as completely his freshman year as his senior year. But his career is what this program needs --- four years per person for development --- to model things after. Claggett and Highmark were good, and approached great but only with the right parts added like H and Donnie and others.

That's my issue as described in the Post Mortem from GeeDub. For example, Tommie can't shoot as well as Maurice Rice does for GeeDub. Rob Diggs is just as great a leaper as Tommie. The Christmas kid and the Forbes kid are better perimeter shooters at Temple and Umass and are better that Kevin. Luke is a scrapper and fighter in the Jeff Harris/Chris Heinrich mold but those guys would never win championships or even some games if that's all you got. Luke's like Steve Carlton on the '72 Phillies. The team won 54 total games and Carlton won 27 by himself. Luke won't win those games but he'd be more like the guy that lost the other 27 and you'd still like him because you know or can tell that he's plugging and doing all he can. If just for one bounce per game, he'd at least be a .500 pitcher. He'd win the Cy Young if you traded him. Why? Not because his stuff got better but because his supporting cast did. Can you say Johan Santana to the Yankees? Thirty wins maybe.

This is a lot of post-FRUBS stuff we are paying for but there is some blame to be handed to the head shed. Why not change to fit your personnel? Maybe he can't. Maybe, he is thinking he trains these three guys (Liddell, Lisch and Eberhardt) and they help train next year's class to start the four year training rotation I'm talking about that will be the only way to offer salvation or even find this program? Some have read his book --- did he do this at Ball State and Utah? Given our tepid history, don't you think that if someone has a blueprint, that they've done this sort of thing before, it would be better to follow a previous example than to make this sh*t up as they go?

As for RickMa, we were warned. I recall folks talking about his demeanor all the way at his hiring. Right now, unfortunately, the poor kids left over from the FRUBS are the sacrifice. Its unfortunate for nice kids like the ones we have. I like Kevin and Tommie and (love) Luke but let's face it. To go where no SLU man ever has gone before, to reach out for the final frontier of the NCAA Basketball universe, is goin to require drastic measures. To say RickMa is not enamored with the talent in the program is not a reach but it should not be surprising. I get the feeling a lot of Saint Louis University boosters will be turned off.

I must say that I'm alien to RickMa's style. His playing in the western most time zones of this country meant I did not know much of him until tournament time. I 'm going ot have to read the book. Maybe adapting his style is not in his mantra. Maybe the groundwork is laid here with the task of remolding his returning players so that they, in turn, help assimilate next year's group. Maybe a huge part of that is Paul Eckerle. Is he praising Eckerle to ensure he has one spear carrier coming back to "enlighten" his first class? If his two best players don't liek the way he coaches, and they are around for only one more year, I don't know if appeasing them is the route to go.

If there is one thing to change, maybe its the public criticism aspect of things. Otherwise, I'm fed up enough with the lack of success in this program that I'm willing to give him a blank check and a free ride. Let's face it --- if this doesn't work, we may as well amputate and go D-III or move to the Horizon conference for good. If we can't play in the A-10 with any consistency, we need to look down, not up.

[Sheltiedave]

I expected this season to be like Pitino's first season with Kentucky, back when they had Pelphrey and a couple solid but unspectacular role players, and then some deep reserves. Implement the new program, play like hell but be hellhounds, and have a below average season with games where the new system clicks and upsets are registered. I also expected RM to spread the love, establish a very positive mantra, and get set up for the following seasons. I also expected him to be able to coach the team up, even moreso than FRUBS.

Maybe it is the media, maybe RM has pissed the media off too much, or they won't listen to his mantra, who knows. Maybe RM doesn't want to sell a positive mantra because he feels it is beneath him. We are witnessing an incoherent PR campaign followed with incoherent coaching and game planning. We have a coaching staff with three HCs and a lead assistant, yet no one colud tell RM to dial down practices so the players had enough in the tank to match the feeble defeat boxscores that overmatched FRUBS teams could generate?

RM is driving this futile season to the point where he'll be able to convince any recruit that they will be better than anyone we currently have in the program, but I question whether that is a good thing. It is obvious to me that RM and staff are not going to squeeze any more effort from the team on the defensive side(we are the 17th best defensive team in DI with what many posters like to point out is a team with two true starters,) yet a strict overanalysis of what to do offensively has led us into catonic efforts for most game starts, and some finishes as well.

Another two eggs like GW will lose a lot of recruiting advantages we inherently have in the region.

[SLUMS81]

I expected this season to be like Pitino's first season with Kentucky, back when they had Pelphrey and a couple solid but unspectacular role players, and then some deep reserves. Implement the new program, play like hell but be hellhounds, and have a below average season with games where the new system clicks and upsets are registered. I also expected RM to spread the love, establish a very positive mantra, and get set up for the following seasons. I also expected him to be able to coach the team up, even moreso than FRUBS.

Maybe it is the media, maybe RM has pissed the media off too much, or they won't listen to his mantra, who knows. Maybe RM doesn't want to sell a positive mantra because he feels it is beneath him. We are witnessing an incoherent PR campaign followed with incoherent coaching and game planning. We have a coaching staff with three HCs and a lead assistant, yet no one colud tell RM to dial down practices so the players had enough in the tank to match the feeble defeat boxscores that overmatched FRUBS teams could generate?

RM is driving this futile season to the point where he'll be able to convince any recruit that they will be better than anyone we currently have in the program, but I question whether that is a good thing. It is obvious to me that RM and staff are not going to squeeze any more effort from the team on the defensive side(we are the 17th best defensive team in DI with what many posters like to point out is a team with two true starters,) yet a strict overanalysis of what to do offensively has led us into catonic efforts for most game starts, and some finishes as well.

Another two eggs like GW will lose a lot of recruiting advantages we inherently have in the region.

[SLUMS81]

Apparently, SLU had numerous decent looks at the basket at GW. The coaching staff is responsible for getting the players in a position to score. RM cannot make jump shots for the players.

If SLU shoots 40% rather than 12%, we lose by 7 or 8 points and there is no hysteria.

[Sheltiedave]

40% shooting means the players have their legs, which means the coaching staff didn't flog them every day in practice.

RM said they would have an easier practice and watch film after the debacle. Well, IF he made the easy practice day(s) BEFORE the game, we wouldn't have a debacle. The coaches were the ones who can determine whether the players burn their reserves before the game, or in the game.

If we are still blowing through the players energy on conditioning, this season is tanked. Ditto for next season as well. If RM's obsession with perfection is grinding down the juniors and seniors who have the skill and mental aptitude to handle this level of skit, then we will see three of next year's recruiting class sent packing soon as well.

This wasn't a perfect storm - every player who scored was one fer the game. We could have forfeited, had a four hour practice on gameday, and generated less negative publicity. I'll be cheering for the stepchildren tonight, but I can't wait for RM to go back to being a good announcer on ESPN. He has lost his coaching fastball. There, now I'm doing some RM motivation.

[slufanskip]

40% shooting means the players have their legs, which means the coaching staff didn't flog them every day in practice.

RM said they would have an easier practice and watch film after the debacle. Well, IF he made the easy practice day(s) BEFORE the game, we wouldn't have a debacle. The coaches were the ones who can determine whether the players burn their reserves before the game, or in the game.

If we are still blowing through the players energy on conditioning, this season is tanked. Ditto for next season as well. If RM's obsession with perfection is grinding down the juniors and seniors who have the skill and mental aptitude to handle this level of skit, then we will see three of next year's recruiting class sent packing soon as well.

This wasn't a perfect storm - every player who scored was one fer the game. We could have forfeited, had a four hour practice on gameday, and generated less negative publicity. I'll be cheering for the stepchildren tonight, but I can't wait for RM to go back to being a good announcer on ESPN. He has lost his coaching fastball. There, now I'm doing some RM motivation.

The only thing I'll agree with is that he should be better at recognizing where this team is in terms of mental and physical conditioning.

In practice though being a perfectionist is the only way ... when someone is doing something and it's not right, the only way is to stop and correct it. Teach them perfection. If you don't and sometimes you correct the wrong thing and sometimes you don't .... you are reinforcing that it's not important. That doesn't work when you believe it is important.

[kevinfootes]

I disagree. I don't think there is a great player on this team. Adequate? Maybe but in the proper context. Hughes was a great player. Burns was a great player. Bonner was but not in the same sense as Hughes because Hughes was great one and done while Bonner didn't exactly set the world on fire as completely his freshman year as his senior year. But his career is what this program needs --- four years per person for development --- to model things after. Claggett and Highmark were good, and approached great but only with the right parts added like H and Donnie and others.

That's my issue as described in the Post Mortem from GeeDub. For example, Tommie can't shoot as well as Maurice Rice does for GeeDub. Rob Diggs is just as great a leaper as Tommie. The Christmas kid and the Forbes kid are better perimeter shooters at Temple and Umass and are better that Kevin. Luke is a scrapper and fighter in the Jeff Harris/Chris Heinrich mold but those guys would never win championships or even some games if that's all you got. Luke's like Steve Carlton on the '72 Phillies. The team won 54 total games and Carlton won 27 by himself. Luke won't win those games but he'd be more like the guy that lost the other 27 and you'd still like him because you know or can tell that he's plugging and doing all he can. If just for one bounce per game, he'd at least be a .500 pitcher. He'd win the Cy Young if you traded him. Why? Not because his stuff got better but because his supporting cast did. Can you say Johan Santana to the Yankees? Thirty wins maybe.

This is a lot of post-FRUBS stuff we are paying for but there is some blame to be handed to the head shed. Why not change to fit your personnel? Maybe he can't. Maybe, he is thinking he trains these three guys (Liddell, Lisch and Eberhardt) and they help train next year's class to start the four year training rotation I'm talking about that will be the only way to offer salvation or even find this program? Some have read his book --- did he do this at Ball State and Utah? Given our tepid history, don't you think that if someone has a blueprint, that they've done this sort of thing before, it would be better to follow a previous example than to make this sh*t up as they go?

As for RickMa, we were warned. I recall folks talking about his demeanor all the way at his hiring. Right now, unfortunately, the poor kids left over from the FRUBS are the sacrifice. Its unfortunate for nice kids like the ones we have. I like Kevin and Tommie and (love) Luke but let's face it. To go where no SLU man ever has gone before, to reach out for the final frontier of the NCAA Basketball universe, is goin to require drastic measures. To say RickMa is not enamored with the talent in the program is not a reach but it should not be surprising. I get the feeling a lot of Saint Louis University boosters will be turned off.

I must say that I'm alien to RickMa's style. His playing in the western most time zones of this country meant I did not know much of him until tournament time. I 'm going ot have to read the book. Maybe adapting his style is not in his mantra. Maybe the groundwork is laid here with the task of remolding his returning players so that they, in turn, help assimilate next year's group. Maybe a huge part of that is Paul Eckerle. Is he praising Eckerle to ensure he has one spear carrier coming back to "enlighten" his first class? If his two best players don't liek the way he coaches, and they are around for only one more year, I don't know if appeasing them is the route to go.

If there is one thing to change, maybe its the public criticism aspect of things. Otherwise, I'm fed up enough with the lack of success in this program that I'm willing to give him a blank check and a free ride. Let's face it --- if this doesn't work, we may as well amputate and go D-III or move to the Horizon conference for good. If we can't play in the A-10 with any consistency, we need to look down, not up.

KL and TL are good players who would be significant contributors on top teams. I wouldn't be so quick to dump on them.