Vashon Romps In Opener

[aj_arete]

While the score might have been close in the end, I think they won by 7 or 8 points, they totally dominated St. Raymond's of NY tonight in Springfield. I must admit that St. Raymond's wasn't impressive at all as they blew layup after layup. Vashon played real loose at the end and saw their lead of 21 points dwindle to 6 points at the end, but they were in control most of the second half.

Vashon's next opponent will be Lake Howell, who was wiping Willard off the floor when I left late in the 3rd quarter. Lake Howell has three Division I prospects and a 6'9 player in the middle. They were real flashy as they toyed with the competition with some risky, high-risk passes.

Hopefully, Bonner will have his boys ready tomorrow night because they will be seeing a much better squad than tonight.

[VTIME]

Powell had 29pts and 14rebs in a loss to Lake Howell in 2nd game. I dont know what happened on Sunday.

[satrap]

http://www.bassprotofc.com/

Yikes, Vashon was crushed. 4th place.

[Nate Latsch]

Vashon lost on Monday at East St. Louis.

The Wolverines have lost three straight games, while East St. Louis has won 16 in a row.

Grunk and Jamal Walker were both in attendance for the Vashon-East St. Louis game (Leon Powell) and the McCluer North-Gateway Tech game (Femi John, Torres Roundtree, Anthony Booker, Jesse Perry).

East St. Louis is a fun team to watch. Two of the Flyers top players tonight were juniors who came off the bench, guard Darian Sain (Dwayne Polk clone with a nice jumper) and 6-foot-6 forward/center Brandon Harold (big, strong and aggressive).

Powell had a nice game, scoring 28 and coming close to double-figures in rebounds and blocked shots. Cornelius Walker showed a nice shooting touch from the outside, with four 3-pointers.

If it wasn't for Powell and Walker playing well in the second half, Vashon would have gotten blown out. Instead, East Side won 80-70. See tomorrow's P-D for more info.

- Nate

[VTIME]

Weird, Vashon beat that same team a week ago, and then got blew out this time. I guess that's why you play the games. For anyone who was at the ESL-Vashon, what were your thoughts?

[Nate Latsch]

http://prepsports.stltoday.com/ssi/prep/st...A4?OpenDocument

- Nate

[courtside]

>Weird, Vashon beat that same team a week ago, and then got

>blew out this time. I guess that's why you play the games.

>For anyone who was at the ESL-Vashon, what were your

>thoughts?

It's why you don't judge any team based on one game. Somebody posted on here that S Medford for example didn't impress that person...their first game was tighter than expected...then they win the tourney beating both teams that beat the V. Their national schedule and results speak for themselves. Can't just watch one game and make an overall judgement on a team.

[aj_arete]

I'm not in St. Louis, but I learned they lost another tough game against Chaminade. How did Chaminade and Vianney get so good all of a sudden. It makes me wonder if DeSmet ruled back in the day because they also resorted to recruiting. By the way, I've heard of the rampant rumors of recruiting that occurs in the private Catholic schools.

[courtside]

>I'm not in St. Louis, but I learned they lost another tough

>game against Chaminade. How did Chaminade and Vianney get

>so good all of a sudden. It makes me wonder if DeSmet ruled

>back in the day because they also resorted to recruiting.

>By the way, I've heard of the rampant rumors of recruiting

>that occurs in the private Catholic schools.

Considering I know people in some of these mentioned hoops programs pretty well, I do have some knowledge on the subject...I'd be happy to take it to pm's....and will send you one.

Actually I can't find you in the list for pm's. You might want to send me one and I can reply.

[aj_arete]

I'll send you a PM first.

[thetorch]

Desmet has no real talent outside of Brandenberg and Bruin. Chaminade is deep with decent talent, a couple mid level stars in Nelson, Lockhart, and Starks and a team full of shooters. They are one of the best teams in the area, an underrated club, only losses have come against #1 McCluer North and Berkely, really the two consensus top teams on this side of the river.

[courtside]

>Desmet has no real talent outside of Brandenberg and Bruin.

>Chaminade is deep with decent talent, a couple mid level

>stars in Nelson, Lockhart, and Starks and a team full of

>shooters. They are one of the best teams in the area, an

>underrated club, only losses have come against #1 McCluer

>North and Berkely, really the two consensus top teams on

>this side of the river.

Then, would you say Steiner is a great coach? and Lee is not?...since if you say Chaminade is deep with talent and DeSmet isn't?...since their outcomes were two points in both games and DeSmet missing starters in both games?

DeSmet and Chaminade played twice, both times DeSmet missed starters in two games, including a kid who scored 13 their first matchup. Both games came down to buzzer and were 2 point games. You mentioned Bruin, who you mentioned was talented...but didn't mention he didn't play first time.

Not really sure where I understand you can say Chaminade is any better in hoops this season than DeSmet. I would argue that neither team is a great team...both decent...but I also argue that anyone in the top area 15 could beat another on a given night this year. Take a look at DeSmet and their tough area schedule, still doing well...but they have led almost every single game in the 4th quarter and have lost some in the 4th quarter late in games...mostly because they run out of gas with short bench....so what do I also conclude based on these results all year i games I have seen...no top level teams....some nice competitive teams...DeSmet could easily be one of top couple of teams in area if a few bounces were different...

I know you have posted often on Chaminade, not sure if you are a graduate or fan...etc...or neither...but I wouldn't conclude two two point wins both where the other team missed players, one of which they trailed by 16 points in 3rd quarter to be any better than the other.

I think most would say that Webster, Troy, McCluer North and Vashon would be four best STL side teams...but I do agree that many others can upset teams in post-season this year...an average DeSmet and average Chaminade team sure.

For those who watch Brandenburg...he doesn't have the guards to get him the ball, nor...who can score to take the doubles and triples away from him...but he has had some 16 point double doubles recently...and 5-6 blocks...too..he is definitely going to be a high major recruit. Can really run the floor, good passer, good hands, athletic. At 6'11 they don't come around often.

Let me add...that Chaminade is Berkley's biggest win by far all year. Same Berkley that lost to Gateway Tech who lost to DeSmet...are you noticing the parity yet? Chaminade? outside of what we discussed above...they have one quality win, Borgia. That's it...at a schedule, not as tough as DeSmet or any of the other schools I mentioned above. I think Lockhart has a lot of potential at guard for Chaminade. And you also have a double standard. Chaminade loses twice to McCluer North...okay...so they are cloe to McCluer North in your opinion...but not close to DeSmet in which the games overall were closer and DeSmet missed starters each game? Can't have it both ways.

[brianstl]

AJ all the private schools (Catholic or non-Catholic) recruit. The fact they are private schools means they have to recruit for students. They have to convince a student's parents that it that it makes sense to spend multiple thousands of dollars to attend their school instead of not paying an extra dime to attend a public school.

This does not mean that there isn't recruiting done for particular athletes for no other reason than they are an athlete. It most certainly does happen. All the private schools do it to some degree. SLUH, DeSmet, CBC, Vianney, and CCP have all done and currently do it.

It is not as nearly rampant or the problem many people make it out to be. Many times students who parents say that their kid received a scholarship for basketball it is not the case. They say that because they do not feel comfortable sharing the fact they are in financial straights that allows the child to qualify for a full or partial need based scholarship. Catholic high schools, especially the members of the MCC, give out many of these.

But, those schools have nothing on what the county schools that take part in the deseg program have done when it comes to recruiting. County schools have totally destroyed the PHL and are known to aggressively recruit from the city's African American population. It makes what happens at the private schools pale in comparison.

AJ, I would suggest that you put little stock in what people say in pm when it comes to this subject or most other subjects. I have learned that people like to use this to spread rumors and flat out lies. They know if they post it on the main board it will get called out for factual errors.

[courtside]

>AJ all the private schools (Catholic or non-Catholic)

>recruit. The fact they are private schools means they have

>to recruit for students. They have to convince a student's

>parents that it that it makes sense to spend multiple

>thousands of dollars to attend their school instead of not

>paying an extra dime to attend a public school.

>

>This does not mean that there isn't recruiting done for

>particular athletes for no other reason than they are an

>athlete. It most certainly does happen. All the private

>schools do it to some degree. SLUH, DeSmet, CBC, Vianney,

>and CCP have all done and currently do it.

>

>It is not as nearly rampant or the problem many people make

>it out to be. Many times students who parents say that

>their kid received a scholarship for basketball it is not

>the case. They say that because they do not feel

>comfortable sharing the fact they are in financial straights

>that allows the child to qualify for a full or partial need

>based scholarship. Catholic high schools, especially the

>members of the MCC, give out many of these.

>

>But, those schools have nothing on what the county schools

>that take part in the deseg program have done when it comes

>to recruiting. County schools have totally destroyed the

>PHL and are known to aggressively recruit from the city's

>African American population. It makes what happens at the

>private schools pale in comparison.

>

>AJ, I would suggest that you put little stock in what people

>say in pm when it comes to this subject or most other

>subjects. I have learned that people like to use this to

>spread rumors and flat out lies. They know if they post it

>on the main board it will get called out for factual errors.

So, since I am the one who mentioned pm's in this message...is that pm reference for me?? Just asking?

[TheRaginCajun]

Is this a high school basketball board now? From the aggressiveness in your post, you likely graduated from DeSmet and now work for a graduate of Chaminade.

[courtside]

>Is this a high school basketball board now? From the

>aggressiveness in your post, you likely graduated from

>DeSmet and now work for a graduate of Chaminade.

If you don't like a thread you can do one of two things:

1) Ignore it like most people.

2) Tell the administrator you are unhappy.

[TheRaginCajun]

I just found it comical that you wrote a page long post about how Chaminade is not any better than DeSmet. It did not appear to be warranted in the least and I am sure nobody really cares. Enjoy performing ###### on Bob Steiner tonight.

[courtside]

>AJ all the private schools (Catholic or non-Catholic)

>recruit. The fact they are private schools means they have

>to recruit for students. They have to convince a student's

>parents that it that it makes sense to spend multiple

>thousands of dollars to attend their school instead of not

>paying an extra dime to attend a public school.

>

>This does not mean that there isn't recruiting done for

>particular athletes for no other reason than they are an

>athlete. It most certainly does happen. All the private

>schools do it to some degree. SLUH, DeSmet, CBC, Vianney,

>and CCP have all done and currently do it.

>

>It is not as nearly rampant or the problem many people make

>it out to be. Many times students who parents say that

>their kid received a scholarship for basketball it is not

>the case. They say that because they do not feel

>comfortable sharing the fact they are in financial straights

>that allows the child to qualify for a full or partial need

>based scholarship. Catholic high schools, especially the

>members of the MCC, give out many of these.

>

>But, those schools have nothing on what the county schools

>that take part in the deseg program have done when it comes

>to recruiting. County schools have totally destroyed the

>PHL and are known to aggressively recruit from the city's

>African American population. It makes what happens at the

>private schools pale in comparison.

>

>AJ, I would suggest that you put little stock in what people

>say in pm when it comes to this subject or most other

>subjects. I have learned that people like to use this to

>spread rumors and flat out lies. They know if they post it

>on the main board it will get called out for factual errors. ]

Perhaps you should practice what you preach Brian? ...An awful lot of generlizations and accusations across the board and individually at public schools, private schools...many lumped all in together, others singled out individually, without anything to back up what you say. You have mixed facts at best.

[courtside]

>I just found it comical that you wrote a page long post

>about how Chaminade is not any better than DeSmet. It did

>not appear to be warranted in the least and I am sure nobody

>really cares. Enjoy performing ###### on Bob Steiner

>tonight.

They aren't...just as the V has played some good competition lately win or lose, just as there aren't any top end teams in STL this season...etc...I posted on topic, to a post in this thread.

As I said...ignore a thread or go to an administrator if you have a problem with the thread overall. I didn't start the thread. This is a high school basketball thread. There are plenty of other threads to choose from or to start on your own.

[brianstl]

It was not directed at you in particular. I have been sent some stuff on the pm that is total bs. I think people have used the pm to spread rumors and falsehoods with out fear of somebody noticing it and calling them out on it. I also know that people use it to discuss topics that they think are off-topic.

I just think if people want to talk about high school recruiting they might be best served to keep it on the board. That way nobody is able to push an agenda or put forward incorrect information with out being called out for it.

[courtside]

>It was not directed at you in particular. I have been sent

>some stuff on the pm that is total bs. I think people have

>used the pm to spread rumors and falsehoods with out fear of

>somebody noticing it and calling them out on it. I also

>know that people use it to discuss topics that they think

>are off-topic.

>

>I just think if people want to talk about high school

>recruiting they might be best served to keep it on the

>board. That way nobody is able to push an agenda or put

>forward incorrect information with out being called out for

>it.

The main topic on the board is SLU sports, and that carries over into high school basketball and the area, as it is relative to SLU. Not sure how recruiting at the high school level is relevant to the board?

No offense meant to you Brian...but you are guilty of what you just preached against. Your original post had some factual errors in it.

If there was an open discussion forum it would go there, there isn't anymore...hence..don't see it's place here. It is a long specific topic that can't be generalized with a brush as you did, or you might come up with several errors as you did.

So I prefer to just talk about the games and teams and individuals. If somebody wants to discuss privately what they know and don't know, then I would think that would be easier and more relevant.

I don't think anyone would refute your general theme, and I think most people wouldn't just throw around casually non-factual information....and those who did...not be taken seriously.

[TheRaginCajun]

I think high school recruiting is very relevant, although maybe not to the current coaching staff. I personally like hearing about local players and players we are targeting. However, a page long post about how Chaminade is not any better than DeSmet has no place on this board. I don't think anyone really cares which team is better and care even less about your opinion on the topic. It is obvious you either graduated from DeSmet or have children who attend DeSmet based on how aggitated you got based on a poster asking when Chaminade and Vianney surpassed the other teams in the MCC.

[AlumniFan]

Brian states this case very well. Private schools have to recruit because, unlike public schools, there is no "district" to draw from. It is VERY competitive for the best students. Very competitive. However, people fail to make the distinction between competing for students and competing for athletes. As someone who has been involved in working to attract students to private schools for years, I can tell you that I have never once heard anyone say, "we need to get Tom Smith because he is a great (insert sport here) player." I am not saying that in the past 50 years it has never happened, but anyone who thinks that it happens at all private schools on any kind of a regular basis is just kidding themselves.

If there is any school that has ever been publicly accused of recruiting, it would be Vashon based on the Riverfront Times article this past year. Now THAT was an egregious example of recruiting supported by a well documented set of facts, not rumor, opinion, or innuendo.

Also, differentiate between recruiting good athletes and building a program that attracts good athletes. Two entirely different things. Of course a kid who wants to play on a good team may choose a school which has a history of having good teams in his/her particular sport. That is just obvious, yet some people immediately jump to the conclusion, or perhaps errantly infer, that this is recruiting when it clearly is not.

"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands up for others." - Ben

[brianstl]

I went to CBC. I have friends that went to all the other schools I named. I believe it was you that stated, a few weeks back, that SLUH and DeSmet were the only two MCC schools that didn't recruit. That was flat out wrong. They all do it and have done it for a long time in football, basketball, and soccer. I know people that were recruited in all of those sports.

I am not saying that what the schools did is wrong. It is not like the schools were offering free rides or anything like that. They were trying to convince them that their team and their school was the best fit for them. That is recruiting.

When it comes to the county public schools just look at the schools that had programs that went from terrible to state champs and state contenders when the deseg program started. Look at those schools percentage of deseg athletes compared to the total amount of kids that were part of the total deseg numbers at those schools. The Post has done multiple articles on this over the years. Look at what happened to the PHL.

[courtside]

>Brian states this case very well. Private schools have to

>recruit because, unlike public schools, there is no

>"district" to draw from. It is VERY competitive for the

>best students. Very competitive. However, people fail

>to make the distinction between competing for students and

>competing for athletes. As someone who has been

>involved in working to attract students to private schools

>for years, I can tell you that I have never once heard

>anyone say, "we need to get Tom Smith because he is a great

>(insert sport here) player." I am not saying that in the

>past 50 years it has never happened, but anyone who thinks

>that it happens at all private schools on any kind of a

>regular basis is just kidding themselves.

>

>If there is any school that has ever been publicly accused

>of recruiting, it would be Vashon based on the Riverfront

>Times article this past year. Now THAT was an egregious

>example of recruiting supported by a well documented set of

>facts, not rumor, opinion, or innuendo.

>

>Also, differentiate between recruiting good athletes and

>building a program that attracts good athletes. Two

>entirely different things. Of course a kid who wants to

>play on a good team may choose a school which has a history

>of having good teams in his/her particular sport. That is

>just obvious, yet some people immediately jump to the

>conclusion, or perhaps errantly infer, that this is

>recruiting when it clearly is not.

>

>"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands

>up for others." - Ben

I agree with all of your paragraphs...but your first one said Brian said it well...I read...and maybe misread Brian to say that all private schools also recruit for athletes only...and even listed schools....this would go against what you were saying in your first paragraph.