Old guy

Deleted

White Pelican, J. Crews was fired for any number of reasons, not solely because of attendance to the basketball games. A facility like Chaifetz does have a fixed cost in terms of maintenance, staffing, etc... Of course attendance to the games is a source of income to cover those expenses. However, SLU does use the Chaifetz for a number of other types of performances or shows. For example the ATA had an exhibition game at the Chaifetz featuring McEnroe (who is pretty old but still superb) going against some of the current crop of professional tennis players. My wife was there with her daughter and loved it, the place was full. They have all kinds of comedy and music performances in there as well. I would believe that these shows most likely cover the fixed costs for the Chaifetz, or come close to it. So, the Chaifetz is not a money loser for SLU even with poor attendance to the men's basketball games. Crews was fired because they (the execs at SLU) decided he was not doing what he was expected to do, whatever that was. I personally assume (with no proof that this is correct) that SLU wanted someone that would be active and effective with the media. Crews most certainly was not, Ford most certainly is. I think Ford has been superb in his dealings with the media, at least so far, much better than Crews was. Whether you fill the Chaifetz seats with people coming to see basketball, tennis, or music performances, the important thing is the money flow produced. I believe they have enough from performances other than basketball games to cover expenses or most of them. People whose butts are in the seats for basketball games are important, but even more important is the public image of SLU and the program, the TV coverage (and how well or poorly we do in it), and finally the sweet attendance to NCAA play. Crews was not doing well in this respect, and this, my friend, is a colossal understatement.

I think all depends on how many decent new players Ford manages to sign up for the coming season. We need 3 new players to fill up vacancies (Yacoubou, Reynolds, and Yarborough), We have Moore with a LOI, that leaves 2 new players to be signed up for next season. If he gets more than 2 additional good players (besides Moore) then the issue becomes who is going to be let go from the team? Until we get to this happy point, the fact of the matter is that anyone already in the team will likely remain in the team next season. A certain degree of hope and prayer for the improvement of some of our current players (Jolly included) appears to be in order at this time.

As far as I know by what I have read in this regard, "we" (that means SLU not us) hired Ford because he was the one the candidate presented by the search firm who really connected with them, that means the execs interviewing him, in a totally favorable fashion. Being a good recruiter may be part of the reason, but there may as well be any number of other reasons why he was hired, for example: his age, the fact that OKSU was going to bring in significant financial support for the first three years of his contract, and many other reasons we will probably never know. We are still in the "honeymoon" stage with our new hire. He knows he has to live up to the expectations of those who hired him (not us), whatever these expectations may be. So far he appears to be doing well and is on track to bigger and better things. Whether he pleases us or not is of no concern to Ford or anyone else in a similar situation, the ones he has to please are the ones who hired him.

The power of positive thinking, we should all cultivate it. Tatum is past history, not a real issue any longer. Ford on the other hand may be the beginning of very nice things for SLU. It is always better to look forward than backwards. Sulfan states this very well.

That is exactly the point BigMouth, we have to find someone who can play and replace Milik and Miles first, then if and when we find another somebody who can play, we can replace Hines. Personally I would prefer others would be replaced prior to Hines.

The picture is missing Milik and Miles, the two players that have decided to transfer. I have no reason to believe it is an old picture. I have no idea what Ford will or will not do but really good players suitable for on the spot replacement do not grow in trees. And, for those of you who do not appear to understand, we need 3 new players (2 after Zeke joins if he joins) before we can think of replacing Hines. Once we get them we can think of who is to replace who else. Personally I would rather see other players, will not mention the name here, depart before Hines goes.

I am not trying to make any points about Hines, just passing information. There have been lots of posts taking Hines' replacement with someone else in the team as close to a sure thing. I also do not think he is going anywhere.

The main page of Billiken.com has a tweet from "SLU men's basketball" showing a picture of the basketball squad. Hines is included in this picture.

Clock, I believe that Reggie was living in Buffalo NY when we got him. He was at a prep school there.

Thank you Moytoy.

OK JMM, maybe you would be kind enough to help an old guy befuddled by electronic stuff. I got the google FOIA for OKSU Stillwater. It contains 245 pages of names and contract numbers. How do you get to the actual contract with Ford? Once you find the number that is?

And I assume everyone assumes OKS is bound to continue paying the full amount for the whole 3 years as long as Ford says he is looking for a job, right? Nope, wrong. The mitigation of damages to be paid after firing an employee and breaking his contract is generally not allowed, contractually, to go at the same level forever, there are options built into the contract. One option is an outright buy out (expensve), another option is to use a system to build up whatever the fired person is paid in his/her new job (the new salary base) up to the level stipulated in the broken contract, this can save significant money to the payer. To determine the buil up level of a base salary provided by the new employer a sliding scale is generally used with the longer time elapsed from the time of dismissal "looking for a job" generally triggering progressively lower payments over the base provided by the new employer. They may pay full amount for "x" amount of time, then lower the amount in stages as time goes by. Of course, other options may be used as well. Unless you read the contract you do not know what the options given to Ford or what the sliding scale agreed upon in the contract is. OKS best interests are to pay the least amount they can, not the most. When you are dealing with a potential overall payment of $2.4 M a year over "x" years you, as a payer, have enough incentive to limit what you pay. So, for those of you that do not understand the concept, the payer may pay in full, increasing the base pay from the new employer to $2.4 M per year if the contract with the new employer is finalized within a specific amount of time which is generally not very long. As more time elapsed the build up of the new base salary decreases. Again multiple options may be stipulated contractually. This is not a matter of fairness, it is business. Of course OKS may (and should) have all kinds of additional protection to their best interests built into their contract with Ford or anyone else in a similar position. From the point of view of the fired person, they, of course, have a copy of the contract and have to make a decision between the options given, be it buy out or sliding scale payments or whatever is available. An old coach looking to retire may well take the outright payment option, someone who thinks he may have difficulty getting rehired may likewise take the outright payment option. On the other hand, a coach that believes he is hot and will be rehired rapidly may take the residual balance payment option over the remaining lifetime of the contract. If this is the option taken, the coach will have to scramble to get his rehire finalized within a pretty short period of time, to insure his overall take will remain at top level allowed by the contract. All of this is generalized speculation of course, we do not know beans unless we know the details of the contract signed between OKS and coach Ford when he was hired. Thank you for the clarification Kwjibo, however please understand that upon firing the ex employee has to make decisions as to what options, among those available to him/her will be taken. These decisions are indeed modifications of the original contract and will be the basis for all additional negotiations and payments to be received by the fired employee. Now enter SLU with its new contract with Ford, stipulating what salary, benefits, etc... will be paid to the new coach. This contract will generally form part of a negotiation with the prior employer (OKS) as to how the residual payments owed to Ford under the prior contract will be paid, when the payments will be made, and to whom the payments will be made to. Of course Ford is a party in this negotiation. All of the parties will be looking to further THEIR own best interests. Do we need to go further or can we let this go to rest now? Without the contract you do not know the exact terms controlling the payments from OKS to Ford after the firing. You can read all kinds of interpretations or opinions in the press, in blogs or in tweets, all of which may be conflicting in some way or the other. Without the contract all you can say is that all parties involved in this issue will be trying hard to get what is best for them, as they should.

I find it exceedingly unlikely that any major institution or corporation would guarantee anyone (after firing him) 3 years of salary pegged at a cool $2.4 M per year, based upon the sole condition that they have to show they are looking for a job. This is not the government unemployment payments line. Did you happen to read the actual contract signed by OKS and Ford?

I believe Ford had to sign up with someone else within 30 days of his demise from OKS in order to get the full salary guarantee from OKS. He really had no time to waste thinking about what vacancy might or might not open and whether or not he might like it better elsewhere. He needed, and got, a deal within 30 days.

Welcome Coach Bailey, we need your expertise.

So what is new? Mistakes and errors were made last year, I am sure you will all agree with this statement so far. The present concern is not any longer a matter of reliving the mess from the last couple of seasons, what matters now is what is going to happen going forward. All of this would have, could have, should have stuff is nonsense. As someone said if your aunt had ba_ls she might have been your uncle. The opposite is true, if your uncle did not have them maybe he might have been your aunt. If pigs had wings they would fly, but maybe not maybe they would be more like ostriches and run around flapping their little wings... And of course, the eternal speculation as to how many angels fit in the top of a pin. Or if you wish to make this stuff more current and more practical, how about selling reincarnation insurance to buddhists who do not want to be reincarnated as worms or cockroaches. You collect if you can prove you have been reincarnated as a worm. Sounds like a money maker to me, also it sounds like a trip to some kind of federal or state facility. I liked Grandy, he played with a major injury. His play improved during his last season elsewhere. His eligibility is gone. He did the best he could with what he had, both for SLU and for the other school. It is over folks. Who in this board would like to rewrite last season make us win a few more games and retain Crews as a coach? Any takers?

Let's get serious about this business will you. We will not know how well Bartley, Crawford, Welmer or Gillman are likely to perform next season. They all have had injuries, in the case of Bartley and Crawford, the nature of the injuries appear to be chronic and not likely to fully heal, not while they are engaging in competitive play. Gillman and Welmer may heal their injuries completely before next season but neirther has played in a competitive D1 or A10 setting a whole lot. Welmer has yet to play his first D1 game in formal competition. We need people that can carry the load if we are going to do better next year. Unfortunately the two players that have left the team were both perfectly healthy and capable of playing at their full capacity. Ford has a lot of work to do. In my opinion, Hines is not the problem, the problem is the team's injury load level and the lack of Welmer and Gillman playing experince.

Good bye Miles and all the best to you in the future. I always thought you were a real class act and I am sorry to see you go. May the future smile upon you in your chosen path.

Yes father, understood. By the way, how many angels fit on the head of a pin? Any elucidation, obscure meanings, or fresh thinking into this confusing problem?

Hicks, you should have been a priest since it is you disposition to confuse semantics with reality and to enjoy spending time elucidating the hidden meanings of whatever is said anywhere. But oops, maybe you are, in which case I am sorry father.

We can only expect one thing from Ford, the very best. Why? because that is what we are going to need from him for this coming season.

Hicks, some people die suddenly but this is not the way the majority of people die. Most people die because they have a number of diseases in fairly advanced stages and they just deplete their reserves and stamina. Majerus, as good as he was coaching was in very a very bad medical state, it got worse progressively and finally caused his death. As far as I can see, this is absolutely not the case with Ford, so we are or should be very happy in this respect. To correct your prior post, any number of the posters in this board may indeed die in the next five years. However, if this is the case and one of us dies, the chance of dying will be much greater for those among us that have a number of diseases (take your pick, heart, kidneys, neuro, CA), and much much lower among those of us (not including myself because I am after all an old guy) that are younger and disease free. Of course there is always the outlying possibility of a lightning strike, of being attacked by a Great White shark while scuba diving in the Great Reef Barrier in Australia. However the likelihood of these things happening to anyone of us is rather small. The ones that are likely to die in the next five years are those who are old, like me, and who have a parcel of medical conditions in various states of control.

OK guys let's analyze the situation as it is profiling itself: We have lost Milik, and like it or not he does have a lot of talent which will go elsewhere. We are going to lose another two sophomores it looks like, let's assume for a second these are Davell and Miles. Despite their shortcomings I liked them both. I think Davell would be very good under a different coach but we may not get to see this either. Ash will graduate and be gone. So far so good. We have a few decent people left. Reggie is good but needs support he cannot carry the game by himself. Bishop is reasonable although he is small and skinny. And there the count ends. We have what you could call two walking wounded. Crawford and Bartley, both played many games and gave SLU all they had with (quite likely a good deal of pain). I do not think either can be expected to be 100% next season. I do not know how much they will be able to contribute and think it will depend upon the status of their chronic problems. Then we have a whole bunch of marginal players. Hines tries hard but really does not make it consistently. Gillman has been out most of this year with a broken foot, even if ti fully mends and he is fully functional, he needs a lot of work and training before becoming a significant factor (in my opinion). I know nothing about Welmer, never saw him play as he was sidelined again with a broken foot. What can we expect out of him?, he has not played D1 yet. Jolly is Jolly, there may be something in him that has not been shown as yet, but I would not take a bet on this. Neufeld may improve but I doubt he is ready to pull his weight for next year. Zeke Moore is coming in as a freshman, he is supposed to be a decent shooter but has not played D1 yet. I do not know if you will agree with me or not but this is looking pretty bad to me. All I can really say is that if Coach Ford is really capable to recruit talent in short notice, he will have his work cut out for him. I hope he, and his assistants, whoever they may be, will be good training this bunch. It looks like it will be an acid test for the new coaching staff. We will have ample opportunity to see exactly how good they are by what we do next season. Talking about a rebuilding year... This will be a seriously tough one, or so it seems to me.

If there is something we really do not need again at SLU this is a coach with advanced medical conditions which may or may not die before completing his contract. Thank the Lord that Ford is not in that category.