cgeldmacher
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Posts posted by cgeldmacher
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The rule used to read that students cannot "cohabitate." As is the case with most laws, it is written to be intentionally vague. Back in my day, the 90s, the enforcement was basically a don't ask don't tell situation. The university knew students had sex. They had a policy against it. However, they never enforced the policy unless pushed into doing so. If a roommate complained, they had to take action. If you were plowing the girl up against a window of Greis, they had to take action. If you were caught by someone stumbling out of a girl's room wearing only a comforter, they had to take action. Unfortunately, this is a situation where they will probably have to take action because of the press that this matter has gotten.
As far as Slufanskip's comment above, this sort of thing puts a Catholic university in a tough spot. It is a private institution, and even the outstanding lawyers these kids have cannot prevent a Catholic university from enforcing its own private rules. If the speculation is correct, if heard the supposed scenario many times so I'm basing my comments on it, that the players were engaged in a group sex situation, that alone might trigger them to have to take action. Forget that it was recorded, that would make it worse. Forget that a recording my have been shown to others, that would make it even worse. Forget that the recording may have been sent through social media, that would be even worse.
Think of it this way, if they don't punish the players that were involved, then how do they punish anyone going forward for anything that's done that's less than what these kids did. It's not the fact that it happened, it's the fact that it went public due to the girls making allegations to the police. Now the university cannot look the other way like it, arguably, correctly has countless times over the years.
TheA_Bomb likes this -
36 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:
i think we should do all we can to create the hostile environment at Chaifetz and to me, a sea of blue (or white, as long as we are all the same) is an amazing platform. by wearing alternative colors that is an indirect endorsement for the fans to do the same. thus i think blue and white uniforms should be our rule. now if saint louis university wants to change our school colors to black and white. i will be the first to buy a black pullover for game day.
I agree with what you are saying, but on games where they give out t-shirts the old folks in the expensive seats won't even put them on to get the crowd looking all the same color. I've given up yelling at them about it. When they schedule a blue-out or white-out game, only the ends and upper deck appear color coordinated because the old farts refuse to throw a t-shirt over their plaid button downs. If the bigger donors don't care about an intimidating color scheme on those games, I'm not sure the younger fans should have cool looking black jerseys kept from them in the name of uniformity.
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I think that this is still at the very beginning stages. If it gets resolved quickly and within Title IX guidelines and the players involved are not charged and found to not be the subject of discipline, then there would never need to be a reason to divulge their names. I'm assuming that this is the reason that Ford, the Athletic Dept., and the University are acting the way they are. They want to, if possible, have a situation where the names don't have to come out.
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31 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:
Understood to the first sentence, but disagree on the second. I don't understand why they wouldn't want to do the same generic interviews as the other three coaches building up some interest for the upcoming season while having a canned answer concerning not being able to comment on an ongoing investigation or telling the reporter on the front end that they are not discussing it. It is odd for me to see a relatively big program not even address a situation like this even if it is a generic it is an ongoing investigation that we cannot comment on, but maybe there is an overall lack of media who really cover SLU basketball? Locking doors and declining to do interviews just seems a little odd on the surface to me.
If he agrees to answer questions, the first one he would get would be about the accusations. Ford would respond that he can't talk about it. He would then get three or four other token questions about the season. The only question that would get used on video and in print would be the one about the accusations showing that he refused to talk. That would become the story. Best just to avoid giving the press that sound bite. I think he did the right thing.
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Absolute garbage. Can't believe he is upset that SLU won't let him figure out who the accused kids are so that he can publish their names in his paper and get a nice pile of clicks. That is completely what his article is about. He's whining that he can't write a story naming the players. A true journalist would write an article about the situation going on and include the fact that the practices are closed mostly likely due to the University's own policies, Title IX rules regarding investigations, and a general sense of decency toward young men who have only been accused of terrible acts.
I canceled my Post subscription recently as the result of this kind of stuff and others. It is just not a credible source of news anymore. Not sure what is, but the Post certainly isn't.
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4 hours ago, Old guy said:
And why is this a high profile case? These kids are nothing in terms of a high profile case like the OJ murder case, which was a national figure and had reams of support behind him. Defending OJ was a true high profile case, these kids have not even been arrested and are not waiting trial, not yet anyways. And being accused of raping some girls and taping porno is far from being in the same league as a high profile case. The world and the nation do not revolve around SLU's basketball team, or its demise. Therefore how and why did these guys get into this case which is not yet a case? It certainly is not a high profile case either, since it is not even a case. How did they get in? Anyone really thinks they did it because of their profound sympathy for people in situations like this?
By the posts I have been reading, I think Bonwich has a good deal of doubts that may be similar in some ways to my own.
High profile only in that it gets his name in the local news which is all he’s looking for. Just by the fact that he took their cases, this board has turned into an advertisement for him. How many guys on this site, many of whom have some money, are talking about him being the guy to use for an important criminal matter. He’s getting exactly what he wants and deserves for that matter out of helping out our players.
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Attorneys like Rosenbloom often take high profile cases like this without charge. I don't like the term pro bono, because that implies the person cannot afford representation. In these situations, the attorney handles the case for free just for the exposure. By keeping his name out there as the go to guy for criminal matters, which he his, Rosenbloom more than makes up for it on other clients he gets during the year due to being known as the guy to call.
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Oh, no. Just looked it up. Rosenblum is a Mi$$ou grad. Graduated in 1979. Looks like Cuonzo has the fix in to get all of our guys. I heard he's making calls to see how strong their commitment is to SLU now.
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Just now, JohnnyJumpUp said:
Just making the tape is not a misdemeanor, there are other elements that need to be met. Look up the definition of the bold/underlined, that's would be a tough one to meet in this situation.
In an apartment and not knowing you're being taped is an expectation of privacy. That language is for when someone is doing something in public.
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25 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:
Fixed it for you. Recording a sex act without consent is not necessarily a crime.
Then allow me to turn it right back around and fix your error. This was cited before, but comes right out of Missouri statutes (RSMo. 565.252):
A person commits the offense of invasion of privacy if he or she knowingly:
- (1) Photographs, films, videotapes, produces, or otherwise creates an image of another person, without the person’s consent, while the person is in a state of full or partial nudity and is in a place where one would have a reasonable expectation of privacy
Just making the tape is a Class A misdemeanor. Once you start showing it to other people, it goes to a felony
Invasion of privacy is a class A misdemeanor unless:
- (1) A person who creates an image in violation of this section distributes the image to another or transmits the image in a manner that allows access to that image via computer;
- (2) A person disseminates or permits the dissemination by any means, to another person, of a videotape, photograph, or film obtained in violation of this section;
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Does Mizzou just have unlimited spots available? Seems like they are sending life rafts out to all the ship jumpers.
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So, if the message board speculation is correct, sexual assault may be off the table. We're now, maybe, dealing with the repercussions of secretly taping a sexual act or taping and distributing (showing to friends) a sex tape that was made consentually.
Making the tape could be just on one guy, not all four. Since it is a criminal charge to tape sex without consent, the punishment could be severe. I'm talking severe from the university as in not ever playing a game.
If the video shows that everyone seemed to be on board with the taping of the events, then we're dealing with the university's reaction to making a video depicting group sex and showing it to others. That could get fact specific as far as did all the guys know the video was happening, did they know it wasn't immediately erased, did they know it was later shown to others. Seems like it would be hard for the university to punish a student simply for having sex, although I can see a Catholic university saying that group sex goes a little further against its principles.
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When a program has zero history of winning and then a coach comes in that puts them on the map, that coach can never be called a bust. If, after several years, the school decides to go in another direction, because we don't improve on the initial success, I could understand that. However, even in that scenario, Stone should never be viewed as a bust.
TheChosenOne likes this -
This is going to sound very unsympathetic and opportunistic, but the fact that the Situation II and this FBI deal are happening at the same time might allow us to fill possible openings that occur because of the Situation II with guys that are transferring because of the other deal.
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Again, keep in mind that we're having two different discussions. If these guys didn't do anything wrong and they get suspended for just putting themselves in a bad position, then I agree that would be very unfortunate. It would probably happen, but it would be unfortunate.
If they did something wrong such that two girls went to the hospital to presumably get a work up with rape kits, then that's a whole different discussion. If the girls said "I'm not comfortable with what is happening anymore and I'd like to leave now" and that's not what occurred, I could care less what happens to them. I would be upset about the harm done to the program, but I wouldn't be shedding any tears for the individuals involved.
Zink likes this -
50 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:
No offense but the numbers aren't as relevant as you think. People stick together, peer pressure can be a defining issue, collective shame can lead to collective accusation. I have no information pointing in any direction but I'm still not ready to just throw out the babies with the bathwater
I believe in innocent until proven guilty. I also believe that there is a process in place that has to play out. However, three girls making the same accusation is daunting. I just cannot see three young girls all saying something happened that didn't happen. This wasn't one young lady in a room behind a closed door and the other two girls backing her story. Two of the girls went to the hospital.
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After sleeping on this, I have woken up to some realities that I'm not happy about. There are three young women accusing the players. This is not a Kobe situation or the first SLU Situation or Duke lacrosse. I believe that those incidents all involved one accuser. Three different girls are telling this story, whatever it is. What are the chances that all three of these young ladies are lying about this? What would be their motivation? We don't have any sure NBA players on our roster such that we could say that they are trying to cash in. Going to the hospital and reporting something like this to the police is a big deal. Girls aren't going to go through all that unless something happened. They're not going to go through everything they will have to endure simply because they regretted their own actions after the fact. I would guess that more often than not, young women don't report this sort of stuff. The fact that these female students reported this is not an if there's smoke there's fire deal. It's more of a "hey, I see something on fire over there." We have to stop letting our fandom get in the way of our sense of what is right.
Let's stop pretending that this could blow over. It won't. As much as it pains me that this will harm the program I love, I want any A-holes that would do this to young college girls off the damn team. Good bye. Good riddance. I would rather have a bad Billiken team than a good team with rapists on it.
willie, billikens747 and Spoon-Balls like this -
Amazing. Someone said that they had to sit through a no means no speech. Sounds like the coaching staff needs to have a second session after that where they say "Listen, guys, just don't F'in do it. Bringing girls back to your room is too dangerous."
Then we need another speech for the co-eds where the athletic department asks them to please stop ........" I should stop now. Going to get myself in trouble. I'm just super frustrated with this whole thing.
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53 minutes ago, JMM28 said:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press-release/file/998746/download
Attorney translation? I read this as 50k and 15k have exchanged hands between Person and someone...
The government has always looked the other way with college sports, having the opinion that fighting corruption and stopping the practice of recruits getting paid bribes wasn't worth investigating and prosecuting. Now, it appears that may have changed. Any charges brought will cause coaches and assistant coaches to question whether they want to face prison time to move up in the college sports coaching world. I believe that this could only be a good thing.
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21 hours ago, WVBilliken said:
That logic makes no sense to me. More modern ought to mean easier to setup broadcasts, not harder. Now being the geographic outlier in the A10 could be a more logical explanation.
By the way, my cable system still has ASN and is still broadcasting A10 stuff like soccer, volleyball, and even some field hockey this month. So heres hoping the basketball coverage continues............
My point was that I prefer road games be on TV, because I go to the home games. Networks prefer the modern facilities at Chaifetz, so we get more home games broadcast. I could care less about home games being broadcast, because I'm there.
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17 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said:
I would be estatic with Yuri as a Billiken.
+1
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20 hours ago, 615Billiken said:
Last I read on post dispatch live coverage was that protesters were turning back toward downtown.
I don't really care if they were on campus if they didn't damage anything. I also don't care if students chose to join the protest or not. I do think its bad optics that there was a protest going on while the private school students looked on from their balcony. Perfect opportunity for media to portray SLU as an oppressive elitist institution.
I don't know about "oppressive," but I'd be fine with being portrayed as an elitist institution. Mizzou got portrayed as an institution that tolerated protesting on campus at the expense of the safety of its students and at the expense of concentrating on being an institution of higher learning, and that university is paying the price. If Fox News showed some shots of kids looking down on the protesters from balconies and refusing to take the bait to come participate, that wouldn't be the worst thing for the image of the university.
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For those of us with season tickets, I bet that we get punished a bit by how nice and modern the facilities are at Chaifetz. I assume it's a hassle, and more expensive, to set up a broadcast at a lot of other A-10 gyms than it is at the modern Chaifetz Arena. Thus, networks like NBSSN prefer to do games there, and we end up not getting as many of our road games televised.
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After the past few seasons, the idea of regularly outrebounding teams gets me all tingly inside. Can't wait.
New Locker Rooms
in Billikens.com Main Board
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Didn't realize until seeing those videos that we are just keeping up by making these renovations. Someone at SLU needs to make a video like this.