courtside

Ahh road games in conference, Zags go down at USF too.

So far, Louisville is the ONLY C-USA team that I have seen win a good road conference game so far. It is my understanding from people that T Diener has been playing hurt for a while now. Marquette isn't playing good ball right now, and are really struggling to find ball handlers. Too many mistakes on the road. Sounds like Depaul and plenty of other Cusa teams...UAB, Charlotte, etc... If SLU plays well, there is no reason to think they can't beat Marquette at Savvis next weekend. But they need to play one of their better games. You have to hold serve at home and steal a couple on the road. As for barely winning a game etc...well it isn't horshoe's. And New England barely beat the Raiders a few years ago to play the Rams, and barely won the Super Bowl....I think you look at that two ways in hoops. If you have a young or struggling team, playing a team close can help you I suppose. But if you win a game barely you are supposed to win...it gets chalked up as another win. If Marquette doesn't hold serve at home,...like Sat vs Charlotte, then...they will have some issues for sure.

Thanks for the post...an interesting in depth article...but incomplete. The President's of those religious institutions don't get a check. If they were lay people, it would be a much different percentage. For example, they use Crean a lot in their article as an example...the salarys compared were Crean's and a VP, not a president, so how can it be compared to other lay presidents like Vandy's Gordon Gee's almost $900,000.(wow btw)? sure the VP makes 250 k, but a President would pull in more than 500k. Also why no asterisk reference at the other religious schools?

Obviously it all starts with students. Increasing regular student attendance in a dramatic way.

Actually no, that isn't what I said at all. What I said was..if you are going to Chicago you need to spend time in the city to distinguish its trip from something else, as opposed to just going to its suburbs and not seeing the city. You even said, you spent time in the city on your trip(s). You can have the chains if that is what you like, as mentioned. I enjoy Chicago, Milwaukee, and the other mentioned cities. Game and location atmospheres are two different things. Chicago is a pro sports town. The poor man's NBA arena is a rich man's college arena. Nothing wrong with Rosemont or the above mentioned places, or even the ones I mentioned. IMO Milwaukee and STL have a lot of simialrities. BTW try Gibson's or Chop House for those steaks in Chi town. Roy, if you go to NYC, go to "John's Pizzeria," either Village or Theater district location. Best pizza I've ever had.

Okay, I'll bite. IMO, Chicago is a lot more of a larger version of Milwaukee than say it is a big city like NYC. No question. Sure it offers more things than STL or Mil, but isn't too far removed from them either. I like Chicago a lot, have had many good times. So understand that up front. But what exactly is "happening" in the western burbs by Rosemont. Well, there is a Shoeless Joe's and Harry Caray's by the All-State Arena, and a lot of traffic moving toward Hoffman Estates there. That is the area I am discussing. But, you could even pick another area....if you wanted. Burbs are burbs...and other than some of the pretty but snotty North Shore burbs,(very cool neighborhoods, but you get the snotty part too) nothing distinct about the West, Northwest and South Chicago burbs. No bias here. I grew up in STL, but have spent a lot of time in other places too. I can gladly discuss its pro's and con's. But this is about Chicago, and the other cities mentioned. I would argue that Milwaukee is much more fun for going out/bar scene than Cincy area. Memphis obviously is a good weekend visit going out town. Ah Boston, the built in East Coast advantage of road trips due to proximity.

Freedom Hall for whiskey...;-)

Marquette would be good for a road trip to go to a game in that atmosphere as opposed to DePaul's lack of atmosphere. DePaul plays by the airport. When in Chicago, if you aren't in the city, why bother being there imo. Milwaukee has actually improved a lot in recent years, still a ways to go. I have find it very similar to STL in many ways. Weather there is similar to Chicago, FREAKIN cold. But nice summers. Memphis is fun, close to STL, like Nashville for a visit. Cincy is okay...I think what helps Milwaukee imo is that it is so close to Chicago. Those other cities STL included are pretty isolated from other major met areas, and if you get bored or need a change, of pace, you can take a quick spin to another city. ...It is one of the nice things about the East Coast, proximity. Been a while since I have been to UD.

Found this one interesting...Wake Forest and Marquette. http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellit...s=1037645509099

Dear Lord, NO more classes to Il high school hoops. Aren't they embarrassed enough at 8 football classes. I'm all for the little guy getting a chance to compete with little guys...though one big class and I wouldn't get too upset.... but give me a break small schools get one class, period. Like in MO, I really don't care size of school comparison of Burroughs vs Ritter, vs Country Day or Whitfield. The above should ALL be put in the small schools classification. One field. Any decent size high school should play in large schools. Two classes for ALL sports in MO and IL should be just fine. The system now is pathetic.

Former Billiken Brad Davis was traded from Dallas to San Jose for the 4th pick in the draft ...which included other players. Recent early SLU departures Tim Ward and Will John also were drafted. Ward 12th overall in first round by New York who traded up to get him. And Will John was drafted in 2nd round 18th overall by the Chicago Fire.

Roy attended SLU games with 5 people if I read the above thread correctly. The point is ...if you like something why didn't you do it. Came across as, hoops isn't big at UW so I didn't go. Fair enough explanation, wanted to make sure I had it correctly. Was surprised at the answer. Perhaps you should take another look SLU72 before making a foolish comment. I never said "rooted for," said followed. Two entirely different things. His post came across as he didn't follow it because no one else did. What does that have to do with yourself.

Vijay lives for practice. Nobody practices more in any sport. I would disagree. I know a LOT of people who hold that against him still. His great play has slowly won some people over. I would however agree that his personality is an acquired taste for many. Sadly I also never discount race in America, for some. Woods has helped that in golf. ...But Roy, I mentioned Thomas in reference to Rich saying basically that U of I didn't cheat...nothing to do with Missouri. Doesn't really matter, I just threw it out there, more to show a lot of schools even likeable ones have a lot in the closet. That was it. On a seperate note, I know that when I read something here, like the Mi$$ouri instead of Missouri, it usually is a turn off for me to even read the post. I just don't find it necessary, whether it is UC or whomever. I don't paint such a broad brush I suppose. Skip, yeah Vijay cheated a long time ago, got suspended a year on that tour. ...you could probably dig up some stuff on a vijay google search.

I don't think any team is guaranteed. Their only two losses to this point are at Memphis and a tight one at home to AZ. As long as they have a decent run in conference, their rpi will most certainly be good enough. They went what 12-1 non-conference. Depending on how many teams C-USA takes, they really wouldn't have to be much more than 8-8 to get in. Depending on a few others. I'd be shocked if 4 teams didn't make it from C-USA. Tough to win in their building for a lot of teams. Quick glance at their schedule and I would think they would win their share of tough games like the Charlotte at home etc...the teams they would need to knock off to do it. If they lose at places like East Carolina, and the like, then it would be different. If I was asked today for an opinion, Marquette would have to fall on their face and go under .500 in conference to not get in. I think they can go anywhere from 8-8 to 11-5, guessing 10-6 or 9-7 for them this year. that would be well over 20 wins and solid rpi, and perhaps adding a win in the conference tourney.

I would agree that students is the place to start. And that begins first and foremeost with a serious commitment to winning basketball. A little tighter watch than past years. More funds directed to the program. Kids even more so than adults need that entertainment factor. Levick's job is to create a top 25 program, that LONG term has 3000 to 4000 student season tickets. Without football, basketball should be the destination of a SLU student once to twice a week between Jan and March. The basketball program needs to win first and foremost. You will get more kids if it is in any decent attractiveness of ball. Will Levick get the job done? Will she get the full support of the university to do so? Only time will tell. It is my personal recollection than in the 90's successful era, though student section sold out, etc...it wasn't exactly near the size mentioned above. you had the old folks, and a lot of random walk ups, adults, who do not have ties to the program who jump off when they stop winning. It will take some time, but she seemed to do it on a miniature level in Santa Clara and Stanford. This is a bigger task, with many more seats to fill as long as they play at Savvis. It certaqinly isn't impossible to do.

Isn't Marquette's ahoya board the same as their rival board? Maybe you are thinking of another board. ...and sometimes all that talent at Memphis comes together, a dangerous team at times. Thanks for the word change, I am holding you to a higher standard. ;-)

What does the mention of Thomas have anything to do with Missouri? I never mentioned Missouri once, and their same time probation is just an unsolicited cheap shot out of left field. I never stuck up for Missouri. Earl Austin Jr, STL youth basketball guy, Bruce Pearl, UWM coach, former S Indiana coach, and assistant to Dr. Tom Davis at Iowa. U of I cheated, period, spin all you like. And I don't care either way to be honest with you. Pearl did tape conversations and was banished for a long time to S Indiana. That would be an interesting topic. Bruce Pearl. Do you ban a guy forever for making that particular mistake? Is there a period after many many years, you forgive and move on? or no? In sports today it is funny where some people get free passes ALL the time repeatedly, and others, don't. Vijay Singh, people still hate him in golf and do not root for him for cheating many years ago. Maybe it comes down to, if you are not already a likeable big time star, ...tough to overcome. As for my personal thoughts, ...hmmm..if people commit a mistake that warrants just punishment, but is forgiveable, and correct punishment served, then slate is clean. ...in general, imo...(obviously it has to be something within reason)

"Soft" would be better for me. And Diener is NOT soft. Novak on the hand is a soft player. Doesn't get any more clear cut than that imo. Roy you base your entire opinions on this topic on two things: Bliiken Law and the ahoya board....lol...no wonder you hate Marquette. That is a pretty small sampling don't you think? ;-) I'll break down any team in the league, but I'll do it objectively. Memphis has grossly underachieved. They offer matchup problems with Marquette especially when they hit their perimeter shots. Down 20-3 to start the game, of course Diener is going to try to do too much. He had I believe 32 agaisnt Wisconsin, and theyh led AZ late in game before losing. They are a tourney team. Depending on how their younger kids develop will depend...will they win a game in the tourney. Their schedule was to let new younger players gain confidence, experience and wins at same time. Just looking at it, sprinkling in Air Force Nebraska etc...not good teams but good enough to schedule, ...with the above mentioned two. Could have been tougher. But maybe not the right one for that year's team. Memphis is a dangerous team that too often doesn't put things together. But you can't have it both ways....Calipari...you could say doesn't get enough out of his kids...but you have to also take into account he gets the players too. Sure overall they should be in tourney every year making a run...like last year.

So what you are saying is...that because as we know UW is a football school, you couldn't or didn't want to follow the hoops team a bit(didn't say root for)??? Sure UW is a football school. But what does that have to do with not following the hoops team when you move there and live for 4 years? I guess I just don't understand. I suppose lack of coverage/support in the area up there led to your lack of interest...I suppose. I can see where it would more difficult to get interested from the casual fan. I went to some non football events at UW this past year and know it is obviously a football school, even when you win 1 game. But who cares if it is another sport in front of fewer people if that is something you like or something any good to see.

Good posts Skip. I too don't understand the Marquette envy on this board. Maybe becuase people read a couple of posts negative about SLU at the Marquette board and label the rest of them. I was actually told that is why other better boards started because people hated that board. Maybe it is because of Billiken Law? Maybe it is a new conference sour grapes thing. Maybe a combiniation of a few things. Nothing wrong with trying to develop rivals. But I won't stop being objective. And Roy...I really thought words like pu$$y were beneath you. Wow, disappointed.

Deion Thomas anyone? ...couldn't resist.

Wow, it was one game for both teams. Some big judegements on just one game. I certainly didn't fly off the handle when Louisville lost to Houston when I saw it, or when DePaul waxed Notre Dame or got waxed at Cinci if I just watched one game. Memphis had been playing poorly, and at some point with their talent was going to put to gether a big game and they did. How about crediting them first? Marquette did play a bad first half, got down big, played a better second half, but got down too much. Memphis has a lot of problems but has the talent to be an NCAA team. Only Arizona from what I have seen has defended Marquette as well. Take away the pick and roll sets with Diener and Novak and force the others to beat you. Not sure why other teams don't defend them this way. I would agree Mason is not a superstar yet and may never be. He is a nice player, a typical improving Soph who will probably be getting better and better next two years, but no he isn't a Dwyane Wade impact player in his first two years,(Wade only played two years, one more than Hughes) has too many lapses. I would disagree with Mac, Diener is 13th in the country in scoring and is a scorer. He can shoot it, from 3 or mid range or on drive, and he is almost a 90% ft shooter, who knows getting to the line is important. I think he just had a bad game. I think he will be a mid to late second round pick. Hinrich? I always thought he would do well in NBA. ever see him up close? he is a big dude who could always score because he can shoot, has size and athleticism. His question was he willing to play point and distribute and handle the ball? Both he and rdnour are much taller than Diener and can throw it down if they have too. Diener would be more appropriately compared to a Steve Nash(obviously I am not literally comparing them on results), ...I think he has a place in the NBA. Comparing Novak to Chris Braun is laughable imo. Watch more games. If you just watched Wade based on his games vs SLU people would say he wasn't that good, and a LOT of people here did. Get a larger sample of the other teams, especially conference teams. For example, Diener has to score this year, if Marquette wants to win, period. They do not have developed big men on their team. So, Marquette runs endless perimeter screens for Diener and Novak, because the three is like a lay up for them. Marquette has a big time recruiting class for next season, but for this year, Diener needs to score for them. I actually am impressed even more by him because not only does he get 20 plus a game, but his turnover ratio and assist ratio are quite good too, tough to do when asked to be "the" guy. The only thing I don't like about Diener's game is his defense, which has gotten better but isn't good. Marquette obviously isn't as good as thier record, but they are an NCAA tourney caliber team this season. As we all know here, tough to win on road in C-USA, like many conferences. If East Carolina gets off to a better start the other night, they give UC a run for their money.

Why didn't you follow UW? Sort of difficult not(if living in Seattle) to unless they were horrible when you lived there. Sort of like the current brief bad football teams of past couple of years. I know it is a football school, but ...just curious.

AP boys basketball rankings January 11, 2005 Here is The Associated Press Class AA and Class A boys basketball polls with school, first-place votes, record and points. Records are through Jan. 10. Class AA 1. Thornton (24) 15-0 414 2. St. Joseph (2) 13-0 375 3. Carbondale 12-1 328 4. Homewood-Flossmoor 13-2 317 5. Julian 11-2 312 6. Westinghouse 10-2 298 7. Bloomington 13-1 250 8. Simeon 12-3 215 9. (tie)Glenbrook North 13-2 167 9. Hillcrest 11-2 167 11. West Aurora 12-2 112 12. Marshall 11-2 95 13. Warren 12-2 77 14. Proviso East 11-3 75 15. Edwardsville 10-1 55 16. Marist 11-2 52 Others receiving votes: Peoria Richwoods, Thornridge, Rockford Jefferson, East Aurora, Conant, Alton, Peoria Central, Von Steuben, Mount Zion, Bolingbrook, Murphysboro, Lyons, Bethalto Civic Memorial, Brother Rice, Quincy, Lincoln, Rockford Boylan, Belleville West, Farragut. Class A 1. Hales Franciscan (8) 12-4 216 2. Quincy Notre Dame (2) 16-1 199 3. Breese Central (4) 15-0 198 4. Belleville Althoff 9-4 189 5. Seneca 15-0 134 6. Winnebago 12-1 110 7. Teutopolis 12-3 92 8. West Frankfort 12-2 86 9. Leo 11-4 82 10. Normal University 12-4 70 11. Rock Falls 12-3 58 12. Nashville 11-3 51 13. Liberty 12-0 50 14. Lovington 12-0 48 15. Red Bud 12-2 37 16. Maroa-Forsyth 13-1 36 Others receiving votes: St. Joseph-Ogden, Colfax Ridgeview, Mason City Illinois Central, Hope, Timothy Christian, Barry, Riverton, Winchester West Central, Nokomis, Concord-Tropia, White Hall North Greene, Carrollton, St. Anne, Bureau Valley, Carthage, Illinois Valley Central, Rock Island Alleman, Edwardsville Metro-East Lutheran, Bloomington Central, Pinckneyville, Steelville. Copyright © 2005, The Associated Press

I would agree that most STL residents have no affiliation with much of anything once you cross the river. No need for a "Roy" response, just stating what I have observed. Other than some footballers over the years, U of I doesn't have a large STL contingency. ...a big Chicago school. Because U of I is pretty far from Chicago, imo most Chicago people only follow them or root when their teams are doing very well. Local STL tv covers U of I decently, but not sure there is any interest on MO side of river. To beat IL in hoops this year. Need two good low post players. IL is obviously very good and well coached, ...but beatable inside. ...as is KU imo.