Taj79

SHORT VERSION: I agree with you, kshoe. LONGER VERSION .... and think you've hit the nail pretty well on the head. But let me ask you this, short of predictions like "I think we'll do better this year than last (based on the fact that it can't really get much worse)" what good are predictions? That might be a rhetoical question without a real good answer but you have to admit that those predictions have raised some interesting debate. My point posted many threads ago originally was that I think it is extremely hard to say what's going to happen and when. Yet I think that most involved in the annual prediction contest were sincere in their posts. I would never have predicted Claggs's junior year based on their sophomore year other than an incremental increase. I believe that if I were a coach, I would be looking at it in a different light. With a lesser team, maybe the Fang Mitchell approach of getting the crap beat out of us, not winning a single game pre-conference, making enough money to support the entire school's athletic program, and then hopefully cruising through that conference and gettting the automatic bid would be the way to go. Of course, those conference sometimes have upsets and its all your eggs in one basket. SLU is not one of those schools. We've won what, one conference tourney and automatic bid in our entire history? So we do stand a chance of winning enough games so that the tourney automatic is not our only hope. So you have to win non-conference games in those situations to improve your chances. Frankly, right now, I don't see us getting ot the NCAAs short of winning in Cincy come March. I don't think we will know enough about this team until January, maybe even later. And that might get short circuited on injuries, especially since we have one now with Meyer. What do you think happens to the whole house of cards should that big pillar in the middle break a leg or something? I remember having us winning the league based on the enrollments of Manuel, Tadysak and Ivester. these are the Billikens .. I've learned to scale back.

By the way, you want in for the AC, you are always welcome. Just stay in touch. I'll be with b-roy .. I'm the good-looking one, which is an easy clue.

B-Law .... when we go to the end-of-season tournament, we are always struck by the "lovely apperance" of the Marquette cheerleaders and dance team. I was wondering if this might the reason that the thongs are worn by the men at this institution of higher education????? I mean, if its a hairy arse, I guess it doesn't really matter does it?

... I'll give it to you and agree that we learned the running style is here to stay for the "foreseeable future (inasmuch as one can draw the conclusion from two exhibition games). But I will say that Brad is nothing if not a creature of habit. I predict that the plug-it-out style will quickly return should we find the winning difficult to achieve early on. Second point: "EARTH TO DUSTIN." One shooter does not a complete team make. And to place such a burden on a freshman would not be completely kosher in my book. What this advocates is a wait-until-next-year kind of thought and I'm not ready to do that. With the addition of Kevin Lisch and the continued (supposed) maturation of Anthony Drejaj and the (see other thread) breakout year for Dwayne Polk, I am inclined to not wait for next year and bank all those outside firepower traits onto another incoming freshman. Can Danny Brown shoot? Luke Meyer? Perimeter vs. Post defense. You're 6'10" and 7 feet. The tallest guy you're playing is 6'6". Is the picture we're seeing slanted? I would think so. And the numbers you attribute to Bryce Husak are now also slanted because at first, I was impressed. Bryce totaled 3 blocks and 7 rebounds for the game. If he had the numbers you state (which I believe to be true) and in the spurt you describe (3 - 4 minutes) then the rest of his 11 to 12 minutes he must've been sleepwalking and of no use whatsoever. Not a good warm and fuzzy as far as I'm concerned. Liddell and Lisch are freshmen. I for one have been saying that all along and been somewhat castigated for it. Yes, they are freshmen. Which means one should expect inconsistencies. I know that ... but others seem to believe that they are the second comings of guys like Hughes and Highmark. I think I can accept closer to Highmark than Hughes ... but let's remember it took Highmark around two years to really hit his stride. Hughes was an aberration for this program and we'll never see another like him in my lifetime. Potential is there. Frankly, we live on potential. So nothing new there. But i for one am getting tired of all the "potential." Fish or cut bait. Attendance. I believe attendance is where it is and where it will always be, fan-base speaking. We always have those locked in season ticket holders ... what ... 7 to 8 thousand strong? The increase will indeed come if and when we start winning because IMO St. Louis, outside of the baseball Cardinals, is one of the best examples of fair-weather fan bases anywhere. If the Blues win, they'll go there. If we win, they'll join us to dispose of their entertainment dollar. But I just don't foresee ever having 20K+ in the house consistently ever again .... the Bonnies, the Explorers, the Spiders?!? Sure, for Memphis, UC, UofL at times ... but not now. That's why I still support a 12K to 13K on-campus arena for this team. Danny Brown, track star. You yourself pointed out the key to all this ...the good finish. You can beat your man all night and if you miss the layups at the end ... so what. We once had an intramural team that was all cross country team members. They ran the opposition into the ground each game. They never won a game because you still had to put the ball through the hoop. I respect effort, and every once in awhile, effort will beat talent (see: Chaminade versus Ralph Sampson/Virginia). But in the long run, talent wins out 90 to 95% of the time. To streak down the floor on an offensive run, you need either good defense causing steals or rebounds leading to outlet passes. You yourself said the perimeter defense did not look good and I am concerned about Ian going it alone on the defensive boards. Danny Brown, or anyone else for that matter, could streak away to their hearts content. It won't matter much without the rock and the ability to finish. There is another thread in here that describes Eastern Illinois as "perilous." On 10/10, kshoe took me to task on my prediction saying that there were "four cupcakes on the schedule this year." If I identify those four cupcakes as Eastern, Jackson, Kennesaw and Chicago, it seems somewhat unbelievable, to me, that Eastern is indeed "perilous." But that is one subjective thread against another. Still such a connotation to me is an indication of the uncertainty that surrounds this season. Is it negative? Sure ... at its base is a 9 and 21 season. No one wants to go through that again (although it was more the rule in my early years assocaited with the program). Maybe what we learned is that the car is shiney and looks pretty in the sunlight. As to just what happens when the key is turned .... well, that I don't know. And the interest on this boards is "in the weeds" with the details as far as I can tell. In that respect, I still say we've learned nothing of value. Let's tip off!

I understand, as the good doctor has pointed out, that it is impossible to go into any situation, do something, and not learn. But the reason I started this thread is because someone, somewhere, in one of the prediction threads (I believe) made reference to maybe waiting until AFTER the exhibition games to make these preseason prognostications on the upcoming year and the potential record. So, in that context, I asked what have we learned and in the long run, I am stating that we learned nothing that would in any way-shape-or-form give us any truer of an indication of where this team is at this point in time versus what we knew on October 30. There are so many variables that enter each and every game that any prediction would seem to be quite futile. Yet we persist. To me its still in the "hell if I know" category. With that said, let the games begin!

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The most obvious answer to the question is that we can learn very little by playing local, lower Division schools. I like it better than EA Sports or Athletes in Action but in the long run, it gives you nothing more outside what you hear from practices. Some year when Maryville or UMSL jumps up and kicks us ala McKendree some 30 or so years ago, then we'll har about it. It might even mean more to the local boys just competing with us short of winning. As of right now, the answers to the questions are still out there. Is IV the real deal? I believe the jury is still out and will be so for a few more games. Sure he's a monster shooting 10 of 12 from the field and 9 of 12 from the line but it was against no one taller than what, 6'5" or 6'6". In both contests he had three fouls; that's not good. Extrapolating 11 rebounds over 28 minutes might be good but who knows. Again, the competition was not indicative of much and comparing a four-guard lineup against this competition is again not indicative of things to come ... good or bad. Who's the 4 and what's the depth on the front line? No answers here. A four guard starting lineup seems to reinforce the fact that no decision is to be made at the 4 .. maybe because we don't ahve one. VN did average 10 ppg over these two games in about 15 mpg so that is hopeful albeit agaisnt the noted height-challenged competion. JJ exhibted the now-you-see-him-now-you-don't attributes of no points agaisnt UMSL and then 10 agaisnt Maryville. Too inconsistent for a fourth-year junior in my book. Obi from all accounts is off to a red-shirt year so no help there. And BH's contributions seems limited to shot blocks with five in his 28 minutes of time. Two points is quite disturbing from a scoring contribution. Right now, if I were the opposing coach, I'd bang the ball inside consistently to get IV in foul trouble. that's my view from the cheap seats here. Who's gonna score? I can't answer that from a box score review. Again, consdier the competition. But nada-for-13 from three-point-range seems to scare me a whole lot right now. DP's numbers are good in the UMSL box; less stellar in the Maryville box. DB/TL/KL/Ad shot a collective 19-31 in the first game but a total of 15-33 in the second and I think I'd like to know how many of those were layups or dunks to get a better perspective of shooting percentages. Shooting the trey the team is a collective 6 for 25 for 24% .... not good in my book. And at home and against inferior competition. Free throw % goes from 80% in the opener to 56% last night. While I was going to say "yikes" I think that is a very real summation of what youth also brings to the table .. inconsistency. I didn't expect the questions to be answered but I think what these two games did was demonstrate that the questions are there and the weaknesses are glaring. The fact that some are calling it a "piss poor" effort also shows how tough college can be in that getting up for every game is a personal thing and will not necessarily be inflated by some perceived rivalry or what have you. These kids are going to have to motivate themselves each night .... there is no likelihood of Vashon or Althoff playing rival city schools or Belleville schools. And its a new league with no opp to see Marquette, Louisville or Cincy once or twice a year and get that automatic pump up in your adrenalin. Another potential failing of youth. Eatern will bring an interesting perspective. I have it down as a win but their roster points to an interesting mismatch as far as the interior game is concerned so we hsall see. It is indeed great to have the games going. By the way, if the preseason exhibitions were a pause to reevaluate our picks onthe record .. I'll opt to keep mine the same.

... because its ... so ... so .... so ... (what's the word?) .... appropriate! Welcome to the first annual Long-Term Strategic Weasels Club meeting ...... say that fast.....

small "b" ... none of that joebon crap. That's like Wilbon. And here's hoping they ain't twins. This is my old compadre .... bono immortalizes it ... like U2 ... er, you too broy.....

You want to fly in I'll get you and off we go. I don't know what the Southwestern Ohio Doc's plns are or what the Northeastern Ohio Doc's plans will be as well but as for me, I'll be doing the driving from here. If the beautiful Miss Anita were to meet the powerful and all knowing Cindy, who knows, they could strike up a friendship and we could leave 'em with each other for that five day period. I know SW Doc is asking if golf will be in the AC itinerary and it could be. It would be in these here parts about that time ... maybe chilly but doable. I can't speak for the coast.

... now were they there all the time and I jsut did not scroll down far enough? If so, shame on me. But I did scroll down to at least the last of the "big" stories and the last ones were about the A-10 preview and one other. Now I know to keep going. It does seem odd, however, that a more recent story is found on the bottom of the page. Imagine if we had to do that with billikens.com?!?!?!?!

But it is almost 0830 here on the East Coast Monday morning and the on-line version of the great Post-Discgrace has nothing on anything Billiken ... no ladies win over Stanford. No ladies loss to Santa Clara. Nothing on the men's A-10 soccer cahmpionship game. Nothing on tonite's men's basketball game against Maryville (gratned its an exhibition but ya think the local ties would merit at least a little something). What I do know is that Mizzou is playing Sam Houston State and they're already extrapolating out to a matchup between the Mighty Quinn and his Dookie alma mater. Did the published version run something? Sometime? I mean the Stanford game was late Friday so I am guessing it would miss an early Saturday print. And today's stuff might not be up there what with all the No Fun League coverage and the crappy Seahawks proving the Rams are all the more crappier. I know joe will defend them but this seems rather ridculous ... I am gathering from threads below that we lost to Rhode Island in the A-10 soccer final but can't really be sure. I also don't understand the PD story on Champ's ladies having to go way out west because of a LACK of good teams in the Midwest region. What the hell does that mean?

I can put you up no problem but it would only be for the night as we'd still have a two hour or so trek out to the AC each night and back. Hell, the tolls will kill the drinking money signifcantly!!! Now ay ... I'm out there for the week. If need be, I'll stay across the Great Egg harbor in Ocean City and rough it in from there. I am in ..... get a cheap SouthWest flight into BWI and we'll road trip out. And I know Anita is in on that one 'cuz she ain't letting you loose with me in the AC!!!!!

.... that this team is young, has no proven inside presence, is guard-dominated, and is playing very well against itself in practices. And one more thing, hope springs eternal.

Unless its Chaminade and the throw-in bonanza is Hawaii! Silver Swords y'know.

Some publications had Hughes listed as the second best high school senior IN THE NATION. I don't recall Liddell being even on anyone's list. Again, all I want is to caution NOT to set the bar that high. If the Hughes bar is set at the perfect 10 level, and Liddell or Lisch for that matter only gets to 9-6, is it a failure? In light of other SLU talent maybe topping out at a 4 level? As for Liddell for four years, right now, I am more worried about not making that mark more to grades then to NBA-comes-knocking. I base that on his going to prep school for that fifth year. And maybe that fifth year makes this point moot but that is still where my basis lies.

Unfortunately, I can't get to practice .. its 900 miles away. That's why I try to defer on passing personal judgments. That and who am I to say anyway. I'm just musing poetically and if I ever offend any of the guys, well, they have the smae right right back at me. Again, I'd like ot see a winning year and youthful development. Who is the leader doesn't interest me as much as who will be the leader. time will tell a lot about this team and the players. All the rest is pure speculation right now.

You bring up an interesting point .... and I don't know how to answer the question on the value of experience. I do know that the proverbial "they" say that the speed of the game changes dramatically as you advance through the various levels so what is good for the goose at the high school level may not translate at this level. Having said that, I believe Kevin will succeed at this level. But how much will we be behind on the experience level? I agree that we seem to be ahead on the talent level. But all levels are interrelated and interdependent. We shall see. Gentlemen ... start your engines.

I have seen leadership manifest itself in a variety of ways on a variety of teams and other non-athletic group dynamics. For the most part, the rah-rah types eventually had the lack of real talent catch up to them. On one team, we had a guy maybe average 20 ppg for the season. If we played 20 games, that's 400 points and he scored about 380 of those against "lesser" competition. When faced with equal or better talent, he was nowhere to be found. Teammates see that and they know. In a less stressful situation, we had a leader on the team. We jokingly called him coach but when it came to decision time, there were three other, less vocal guys pulling the strings behind the movements. While I think there are folks who can eventually grow into a leadership role, I think the norm is that natural leaders have it and use it early in life and often. For as good as RB was, I didnt perceive him to be THEE team leader in either of his years. That's not a real knock on Reggie .... some guys have quiet demeanors and quiet personalities and MY perception was as such. Some guys rah-rah to get the coach's attention and if the competition is fierce even if the talent is overall lax, any little edge has got to help. We had a guy like that in high school. We called him "Snorkle." He was so far up the coach's *ss that he needed a snorkle to breath. But after all the assessments were done, he'd probably be called the starting point guard.

yeah ... right, call me shocked. But behind even Duquesne wow ... If all works out well, remind me to send these guys a "thank you for the motivation card" at the end of the year. Do I believe this? No. Do I think it closer to the truth than most of us would admit to believing? Yes. But behind Richmond as well wow.

.. the best thing about freshmen is they turn into sophomores. Maybe it is Polk or Meyer ... if one gets off crutches soon enough.

In the ten-second-sound-bite, headline news, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately world in which we live, no one on this team qualifies ... the position is wide open. I suspect that most of us need to see that in someone new to the roster because if we are faced with what's returning ... well, let's just say it doesn't make the coffers overflow with confidence right now.

I agree with SShoe on this assessment of that particular team and season.