StLouBlue Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I think we need to look at these two leagues and see which is the better league for SLU. I am sure SLU is doing this as well. MVC POSITIVES 1. Regional location. The schools in the MVC are mostly 3 to 6 hour drives from St Louis. --Less travel expense, especially for minor sports --Easier for local fans to travel to away games --Area that SLU recruits the hardest, after St Louis area. 2. Attendance at games. The MVC draws better than the A-10. 02-03 MVC had 7(of 10)teams average above 6K, 3 teams below 4500 A-10 had 2(of 12) average above 6K, 6 teams below 4500. 01-02 MVC had 5 above 6K, 2 below 4500 A-10 had 3 above 6K, 6 below 4500 00-01 & 99-00 MVC had 7 above 6K, 3 & 2 below 4500 A-10 had 3 above 6K, 6 below 4500 Some may wonder why attendance matters, but I think attendance shows a few things, level of commitment to a program by the school, fans & alumni. Also attendance at men's basketball is probably the main revenue source for these schools athletic programs. 3. The MVC is a good league for Soccer & Baseball. I know, many people have probably screamed, "who cares", and rightly so, these sports to me have little consideration in what league we play in. That is what I think, but I am not sure about SLU Admin. They have spent a lot of money on the on campus baseball and soccer fields. It seems like these are priorities to them and that is why I mentioned it here. MVC NEGATIVES (I will try to stick to the main ones I see, I am sure many of you can and will add to this list) 1. TV Deal. MVC has to fight to get on ESPN, best teams usually get 2-3 games, rest are left out. Fox Sports does show an MVC game on Sundays. I am sure the A-10 has a better deal. 2. MVC is in small cities, not major markets. Peoria, Wichita, Bloomington(IL), Carbondale, Des Moines, Omaha, Evansville, Waterloo(IA),Springfield(MO) and Terre Haute. Doesn't matter what cities the A-10 is in, I am sure they are much larger than these. 3. Poor NCAA seeding. Creighton had about as good of year as an MVC team could have and only received a 6 seed. A-10 had Xavier at 3 and Dayton at 4 last year. Has had Temple at 2 in '00 and UMass as 1 in '96. 4. MVC is preceived as a mid-major the A-10 is usually not. Probably part of the reason for the low seeds in the NCAAs for the MVC. SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE MVC & A-10 1. Both leagues are stepping stones for college coaches. A couple good years and then move up to a larger conference/more pay. Cheney and Altman are the exceptions to this. 2. The bottom of the league teams are bad. 02-03 The MVC had 3(nearly 4) teams w/ Sagarin ratings over 200. The A-10 had 2 (nearly 3) w/ over 200. 01-02 MVC had 3 teams w/ over 200. A-10 had 3 teams w/ over 200. 00-01 MVC had 1 team w/ over 200. A-10 had 1 (nearly 2) teams w/ over 200. The difference here is that 6 different teams in the MVC occupied these 8 spots. In the A-10 4 teams occupied their 8 spots. I know thetorch included RPI ratings for last years teams, I don't have access to RPI ratings going back, so I used Sagarin ratings. Just to show how you should not look at only one year, here is a list from the '98-99 season. A-10 Sagarin MVC Sagarin Temple 15 SMS 29 Xavier 34 Creighton 32 GW 44 Evansvill 73 Rhode Isl 52 Ind St 76 UMass 94 SIU 83 Dayton 125 Bradley 86 St Joe 131 Ill St 105 St Bonn 132 N Iowa 130 V Tech 150 Wichita 141 LaSalle 152 Drake 164 Fordham 172 Duquesne 241 A-10 and MVC look pretty similar there don't they. The Sagarin Conference rating had the MVC at 8 and A-10 at 9 for the '98-99 season. So after looking at this, I say that the A-10 is the better conference of the two. I don't see a wide gap between them though. I think the A-10 should drop the lower teams, it would strengthen the conference overall. I also like the 10 team size of the MVC-that way you get to play each team twice, 14 may be too many for the A-10, just another reason to drop a couple teams. I do think the MVC would be the more stable route if you are looking for stablity. I think the A-10 will be raided if/when the Big East splits, we could be the Memphis left behind in the shell of a weak conference. We have no guarantees we would be invited to these Big East teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentFLBilliken Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I think we need to stop these types of comparisons. There is absolutely no way SLU will rejoin the valley. It is also silly to take last years RPI to compare the conferences. The upside for the A10 teams are MUCH MUCH higher than the valley teams. St Joes, Temple, Rhode Island, UMASS, Xavier, Dayton and GW have all had multiple top 20 caliber teams in the last 10-15 years. Creighton was very good last year. SIU was very good the year before. SMS a few years before that. But consistently, year after year the Valley is not comparable. They usually have one or two good teams and the rest runs from average to atrocious. The day I give a rats butt about the big Drake-Evansville showdown is the day I quit following college sports. If SLU aspired to mediocrity, they would have never left the MCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 if you need rpi rankings for previous season's, go to http://teamrankings.com/ncb/ you need to go down the side of the page and click on rpi though as the author post's his own power rankings on the first page. there you can also get the rankings for the previous 5 seasons as well. sangarin ratings might be nice, but the fact is the ncaa uses the rpi so anything else is meaningless. i thought it was convienent you used the best season the mvc probably had in league history for your example. so i went back and got the individual seasons for the last 5 seasons and how the conferences ranked. i think what you will see is that the a-10 has consistently been ranked about the same for the last 5 seasons, while the mvc continues to slide down and down and down. i believe this comes from the rest of the league just not holding up their end. after siu and creighton it is ugly. the rumor is that the a-10 is cutting lasalle and fordham to add slu and charlotte, my guess is that combined with c-usa more or less imploding makes the a-10 the 6th or 7th best conference for next year. overall, i dont think there is even a discussion. the mvc would be the "let's just be content to be small time" choice. the a-10 is the only option that hints at wanting to attain an elite program status as the best of the league are confirmed good programs that tradition exceeds even creighton and siu imo. here are the previous rpi rankings by conference: 98-99 cusa 6 a-10 9 mvc 6 99-00 cusa 7 a-10 10 mvc 11 00-01 cusa 7 a-10 8 mvc 11 01-02 cusa 7 a-10 9 mvc 13 02-03 cusa 8 a-10 9 mvc 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former_d1 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 The 2 teams that have had a high profile in the valley for the last couple of years are about to go back to the middle of the pack (siu and cu). siu has lost their coach and the 3 players that made the good (deerman, williams, and roberts). cu lost their mvp of the mvc to the nba. The valley is not the place for slu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 No way that the MVC compares favorably on the basketball front to the A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.