Hardball

The goal every year should be to get players that can push the starters for the starting job. It seems to me that the only spot open for play is the four spot. Which is not saying much since we didn't have a four playing all last year. If Brad puts DP at the point look for us to have trouble scoring again. TL,KL and DB are our best combination at the guard positions. Put Ian at Center and play the four by committee until you find the best player for our needs.

LaSalles trick defense? How about having an answer for the St. Joe's defense?

Without having seen the kid play I certainly like the schools we competed against. Hopefully this will show the Kool-Aid drinkers that SLU can compete for top talent against BCS schools and get them to commit. It is all about relationships. I hope with the increased athleticism BS is truly committed to the run and no more games in the 30's and 40's.

Hey 42, I don't have to be right BS does. He is the one making the big bucks. I can second guess all I want. My season tickets cost as much as yours. Can you spell N-E-W-B-O-U-R-N-E.

Roy, As for as making the offer early to O'Rear didn't BS make the early offer to DM. The Kool-aid drinkers defended this move to the cows came home. The difference between the two players recruitment is one had multiple D1 offer's while one recruit did not have any. The O'Rear situation is a carbon copy of the Shaw situation. History does tend to repeat itself.If BS is recruiting a bigger,better 4 than O'Rear then he should have gone to that recruit and given him an ultimatum. This would be one way of forcing the better recruit to make a decision. If the better recruit elects not to commit you can bet SLU is not his first choice. Then the question becomes do you roll the dice and wait at the risk of loosing O'Rear. Apparantly BS will roll the dice. The second reason for not offering is if BS doesn't think he can play here. My response to that would be if he can play for a NCAA Tournament team who was ranked in the top 20 in 2005 he can play for SLU. Not to mention that the MVC is a better league than the A10. So either way BS has either not learned from his mistakes (Shaw)or is still having difficulty identifing talent that can play at SLU. One way to help in this situation might have been to go to the Men's Head Baseball coach and see if he would offer a scollie based on his 90+ MPH fastball. I would think the Baseball Billikens playing in a diluted A10 would love to have a pitcher of this caliber.Then once he arrives have him play both baseball and basketball his freshman year and get a free look at him. But like the Suggs situation this positioning would be slimy and not truthful.

That is kind of the problem isn't it. BS can't really identify who can play here or who can't. I will not open up old wounds to illustate my point but the history is clear on the offers Brad did not make or was to late in making during his tenure at SLU. I think we can just add another lost recruit to the list.

This happens all the time at much bigger schools than SLU. Kansas had a player a couple of years ago that they offered only if his summer league teammate followed. That teammate was JR Gideons. The inferior player made the team but never played. If it is good enough for Kansas then it should be good enough for SLU.

Don't forget the POSQ.....

That is the way it should be. So why didn't that happen this year?

"when diener played in the game before his entering slu, he never touched the ball as a wing. i suspect that maguire being a similar type player would have not gotten too many touches as well." That was then this is now. I don't really care what you suspect...let's have DM show up and a make a difference. Let's have him go and shoot lights out and create a SLU buzz outside of Belleville. "as to the inside players, even in the mcdonalds all star game, the pf's and centers extent of input is limited to defensive rebounds and putbacks rarely if ever seeing an input pass." So what if he doesn't see a entry pass all night. Score twenty five on putbacks. 25 is 25 no matter how it is done. Also wouldn't mind seeing him shooting a couple 15 footers. "considering there would be no slu guards bringing the ball down, i dont see how you can advocate a shooting wing and a power forward wasting their time at a mi$$ouri players all star game." The only option now Roy is to take your ball and go home. I think I hear you mother calling now..... Same old tired arguments from a SLU faithful. How about just showing up and kicking their A$$. How about getting every freakin' rebound and being a horse on the boards. How about showing up and making some three's. Let see SLU recruits compete. The Kool-Aid drinkers are so predictable it is frightening. Roy you have such a defeatist attitude. Where is your Republican "survival of the fittest attitude" when it means something. You exemplify why SLU is where it is today. Always wining, never enough media coverage, recruiting rationalizations and Mizzou paranoria. CHANGE THE ATTITUDE AND THE RESULTS WILL CHANGE.

Skip I hate to say it but SLU missed a great opportunity to compete directly with Mizzou in a way they can't run from. Would you and the other Kool-Aid drinkers perceived value in DJ's game had the SLU recruits outplayed the Missouri recruits. Well you can't outplay them if you are not even willing to show up. I would love to use that kind of dig with the recruiting onslaught that is coming from Anderson and Missouri for the 2006,2007,2008 classes. Does it mean anything, not really, but at least we could have a discussion on how our recruits outplayed Mizzous recruits. If SLU wants media coverage then let's not turn up our nose when an opportunity arises. You see, while you and people like Roy try to minimize the game, hold onto the past and make silly Mizzou's references I'm wanting to change the perception of SLU basketabll. SLU will go anywhere and compete against anyone . Our No Show's for the premier ALL Star basketball game in St. Louis just cements everyones percetion of second tier SLU basketball. There would have been nothing better than to send Knollmeyer and DM to the game and have them outplay the Mizzou recruits. I wondered if 2006,2007,2008 recruits wondered why SLU was not represented? Missed opportunity like it or not.

42, I really thought our guy's should have played. This would have been a perfect opportunity to get SLU supporters excited about the upcoming season. I remeber last year when TL played how excited I was going to be to see him in a Billiken uniform. I saw many Missouri backers there on Saturday as they were checking out their new recruits. SLU can't claim that we are always short changed on the media coverage front and then not take advantage of opportunities to get SLU's name in the media. How about this..... Knollmeyer plays and gets 25 points and DM ends up hitting five three's and the locals win the game and Knollmeyer is named MVP. Now is there a trophy or an NCAA tourney bid on the line no but if SLU"S guy's show up and play really well just think how much buzz that could generate for the new year. Sometimes we get what we deserve.

It is kind of funny all the SLU Kool-Aid drinkers were bashing Nate for his lack of SLU coverage and then the SLU recruits don't even show up. How come a recruit going to a St. Louis University would not want to play in this All Star game? This will be his new home for the next four years and it could have been a perfect opportunity to show his respective Billiken boosters his talents against other Major Division 1 talent? What am I missing. Do you think BS had something to do with their decisions? you know, the last thing BS needs on the heals of the Stemler fiasco or the O'Rear snub is to have his recruits stink up the joint. And for all who say it was a good decsion to skip the event, I would have preferred our recruits to show up and be THE DIFFERENCE in the game as opposed to being a no show.

You guys are being ridiculous. VTIME is absolutely 100% correct. I would offer the younger brother to get the older brother every single time. I know for a fact we could have had R. Robertson had we made the same deal and we didn't do it. That was ridiculous. Here's why VTIME makes sense. First you may get the older brother and when the time comes the younger brother may not want to follow his older brother. Or maybe he gets recruited by anoher school that he likes better. Or maybe he will elect to play football instead of basketball. As you can see there are a number of reasons why you may never have to deliver your promise to the younger brother. This is exactly the time of recruiting SLU has to begin to become successful. BS has convinced most of the Kool-Aid drinkers that SLU can't compete for Top 100 recruits. VTIME finds a way for SLU to compete and you bash him. All VTIME has done here is given you naysayers a way to get a potential Top 100 recruit and your balking at the idea. Remember your own words "SLU isn't Indian Duke or North Carolina" Washington is probably not going to offer the little brother because he doesn't have to. If SLU offers it levels the playing field. This is how you recruit when you do not have confidence in your coach to win the kid straight up. Good suggestion VTIME but will BS listen?

Why would SLU want the same player as a Team that was ranked in the Top 20 last year and has been to the NCAA tournament the last four years? Maybe BS was only on the NO.5 evaluation period!

LaRussa and BS have a lot in common. I do not mean this in a bad way but both are committed to their beliefs as the way to win and run a ball club. I am not sure you will see much change from either. I think BS believes in Bennett like tempo/quality shot attempts/no turnovers while LaRussa believes in winning with veterans/good fundamentals and showing player loyalty. My philsophy with the Cardinals would take a different direction. The current owners have been adament about not exceeding their current salary cap. But when you have pitchers such as Reyes making next to nothing why not ship out a guy like Mulder and use his salary to get an outfielder. The Cardinals would be spending the same amount of money but would be taking advantage of the fact that they have good young pithchers making close to the major league minium.

You mean Weber didn't need his seven evaluation periods to decide? C'mon. Your joking,right?

I watched the Charlotte game and I thought SLU played awesome. However I did not see the Charlotte game style in too many games last year. What happened? SLU can have all the Top 100 recruits they want but you have to let your kids play the game without having to look over their shoulder.

I knew he was a JC transfer but I did not know the JC name so I just referenced his first school of choice.

Your right alot of this discussion is speculation. But speculation based on some kind of rational or use of trends. Rather than go back and forth and discuss who had better recruits I will say for the sake of speeding up the converstaion you are right. So here is my question.... If we have have better recruits under BS how come we had more success under Romar?

Yes it would matter. But my next question would be if he had the talent why did he maintain only a .500 record?

Rich, Romar had his mistakes but so has BS but Romar was good at Peperdine before we hired him at SLU. I am not saying Romar was the greatest but are you saying you feel more comfortable with BS handling our recruiting than Romar? Remember Romar had a committment from the Hollins kid that went to UCLA and he would have locked up Grimes had he stayed. My educated guess, based on his successful regional recruiting at Washington, was he would have delivered TL and KL as well. Look what he is doing at Washington. Do you feel comfortable saying BS could do as good of a job as Romar has done at Washington had he been hired as head coach? How would you explain Romar's recent success? I am not saying BS can't do it at SLU but rather four years is a long enough time to make an educated guess whether he can do it. Some major changes need to take place in the way this staff recruits. Hopefully Walker will be a start of a new beginning. Only time will tell. And apparentantly we have all the time in the world to wait.

Are you saying the coach sets your standards for SLU? Roy, just so I am clear about your position. Knowing that no coach can gauntee a successful program your claim is if BS came to you as the SLU AD and said "I can put together a winning program at SLU but it will take ten years to do it".... you would hire BS?

The reason Romar was not successful recruiting at SLU was because he was trying to get the West Coast Blue Chip players to come 2000+ miles to play for a not very successful college basketball team. BS tried the same thing his first couple of years before he understood the value of recruiting regionally. Romar finally understood the importance of the regional athelete (Grimes) and then he took the Washington job. Had Romar concetrated on the regional recruit here like he is doing in Washington he would have been extremely successful. It would be hard to claim based on the current results that BS is a better recruiter than Romar but if anyone could try and say it you would be the one. As for as our coach "steadily improving the talent base by upping the talent gradually" he has failed this year. Unless you think our recruits this year of MQ and AK are better than last years recruits TL and KL. BS was a recruiter for a Big 10 University for many years yet he has never delivered any player of note outside of KL and TL who by the way are from St. Louis. Where is his contacts that he developed at Wisconsin? When will they start delivering players to SLU? Yes you could talk about RB but he was a transfer as was the Federicks from UAB. Coaches like Munson and Few do not miss a beat when one leaves. Xavier has gone from Gillen to Prosser to Matta and now Miller and still are getting better players than SLU. And you say it can't be done in a timely manner...nonsense. It can happen and it is what we should all expect. Roy, if consistency is what you want how about starting with your own thought process. If the Blue Chip Recruit Plan was a good thought process 5-6 years ago it should be now as well. That theory should not change based upon who the SLU coach is at the time. Set your standards and expect your coach to fulfill them. Every successful program does this and SLU supporters should be doing the same. SLU just needs a staff/Coach to execute it. Ultimately Roy, the major difference between the _ _ _ and you are you want consistency regardless of results and the _ _ _ want winning basketball (NCAA TOURNAMENT). Neither are wrong it is just how you want to spend you time getting to your final destination. If consistency is what you want let's give BS a ten year contract. Now that would be consistancy.

Drew you are 100% correct this is the exact attitude that has to stop and stop now. I didn't suggest the reason why LH stayed home because I was not 100% sure it was correct. But if it was the reason, this only illustrates that someone found a way to make SLU attractive and it worked. Spoon faultered by not using the LH committment as a springboard to follow-up recruiting. Whatever the reason coaches all over the country fiqure something out and SLU's staff should do the same. I chuckle when I hear people suggest that Brown did someting slimy when he offered Danny Manning's father a job. Was this legal..absolutely. If need be why shouldn't SLU do the same in the same situation? All Brown did was find a way to make Kansas more attractive than other schools. Is the job offer any worse than providing world class healthcare to secure a recruit? I am a believer in using every legal advantage you have and never looking back. In all seriousness why shouldn't SLU get the same caliber players as Memphis or Xavier? Does Memphis and Xavier really have that much more to offer that St. Louis? Calipari and Matta (now Miller) found a way to position both Memphis and Xavier in the best light and get top recruits. SLU should be doing the same. Romar at Washington competes regularly and wins recruits against USC,UCLA at Arizona. It is all a mindset and why SLU can't believe in ourselves enough to go after Top 100 recruits boggles my mind.