MUTGR

Assuming they all show up and qualify, he's got a pretty damn good class coming in to join Conley, McKinney, & Kleiza. It will be interesting how his next class shapes up after Alden's leash has been in place.

Ironically, this "scandal" or whatever it is will probably guaranty that Quin stays at MU for some time, provided he cleans up his act and doesn't miss two or three NCAA tournaments in a row. You figure that despite his deficiences as a coach, Quin recruits well enough that MU should stay in that middle of the pack big 12 area, which many years will be good enough to get in the tournament as a bubble team based on the strength of the conference. So I doubt he will do so bad he gets fired just based on results. And the bloom is clearly off of him due to the NCAA problems and the team's lackluster play this year, so I don't see an elite program, or even most programs at or near MU's level, touching him for some time. He's got to build his reputation back, on and off the court, and I think it will take awhile to do it. He's not going to get offered a better job than Missouri for some time. Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with him.

I don't want to distract you with facts, but Quin was Alden's guy all the way. Others suggested Self.

If this was a boxing match, it would be stopped to prevent SD from suffering permanent damage from any more head shots with the facts.

In all seriousness, I don't have a problem with your analysis except fo Johnson/Frericks. I think you guys are way undervaluing Johnson. One of our problems was how often our players would totally forget about Johnson for long stretches of a game--and I pin that back on Quin, but Johnson was a far above average college post-player. Indeed, at times he was simply dominant.

Snyder can't coach his way out of a paper bag. I think any MU fan that hasn't come to that realization is just kidding themselves. I would have used the NCAA problems as a pretext to fire him for his sorry coaching, but that's just me. Some people are still infatuated with him for some reason. After five years of Snyder, we are nothing more than a middle of the pack big 12 team with a bad reputation.

Well, you're not much fun to bait today.

So, based on your logic then, isn't it a huge disappointment that SLU didn't make the NCAA tournament, given the great coaching coupled with the talent? What went wrong? Conversely, if SLU achieved what it should have out of the talent it had, and its talent was equal to or better than Missouri, and we all admit that SLU had an advantage in coaching, then Missouri wasn't a disappointment at all? It has to be one or the other, given your logic.

How can he be overrated when everyone agrees he can't coach a lick?

David, the article indicates that public funding, i.e. taxes, are being used by SLU directly or indirectly in two ways: (1) the first is the federal funds being used to help build the research center. I can only assume the ultimate source of these funds is tax dollars. (2) with regards to the TIF financing, I will not try to argue the mechanics or merits of TIF funding with a real estate lawyer, but your own description states that TIF provides a way for SLU to use tax revenues (even if they are generated by the project itself) in a favorable way. I am well aware that private groups use TIF financing all the time. Indeed, I imagine that not many delevopments occur without TIF financing, nor did I say there was anything wrong with it. I note that some groups, like the post-dispatch, scream bloody murder when TIF financing is used in areas like Des Peres-although I realize that has nothing to do with SLU's project. So, based on this article, I can see that SLU, a private catholic university, is more than happy to use tax funds where available and to use, if not actual tax dollars, than preferential financing arrangments involving tax revenues. Either way, SLU is benefiting from either the direct use of public funds or indirectly through a financing mechanism involving tax revenues. So when you gripe about tax dollars going to public institutions such as MU, you should at least admit to yourself that SLU is also receiving tax dollars, directly or indirectly.

I'm happy to learn that a fine private institution like SLU is also at the public trough for handouts. Remember that next time any of you SLU alums ***** about your tax dollars going to Mizzou.

Some Missouri fans agree with AJ: http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/missouri-...message=1514076 I might be one of them, too, depending on how things shake out with the NCAA.

That may be true but it is irrelevant. The point is the reason there is not more discussion or knowledge about Lisch on Tigerboard is they were not recruiting him, whether it was his choice or not. If in recent years McKinney or Spencer Laurie had chosen SLU over MU, there would have been a lot of discussion about it because it was a kid MU was recruiting.

Roy, even if all they ever read was that thread, they should realize that many of those posts were quite condescending towards SLU (i.e., good recruit for them, he'll get losts of playing time for them) and Lisch (not really big 10 material, we have better point guards to recruit, they can have him).

I'm glad you at least recognized how condescending those Illini posts were about SLU and Lisch. Most of those are hardly complimentary.

I think you should also factor in the fact that Lisch was not on most MU fans' radar screens because MU was not involved in recruiting him. I think some of the St. Louis area MU fans that post on Tigerboard were aware of him and understand he's a very good player and a big recruit for SLU. If you were looking at those Illini posts objectively, I think you'd conclude many of them were pretty condescending towards SLU and even Lisch. Also, notice that the caustic posts were in response to AJ's post, which was suggesting that SLU was going to pass MU and have more post-season success in 3 years. AJ was clearly trying to stir things up with that post for reasons only he knows. The other thread was mild and in response to the statement that Lisch committed. I suggest you go back on the Illini board and post some smack in relation to SLU/Illinois similar to what AJ posted, and see what kind of responses you get from those "civil" Illini fans.

Well, at least you can't chalk this up to some imaginary Mizzou conspiracy. If anything, maybe it's becoming a southwest Missouri rural/urban bias type of thing, witht he past two winners coming out of that area.

I don't follow these things as closely as some of you, but here's an article about it. This implies that it goes to seniors only. Funny, I never heard of Richards or of Rogersville. http://sports.news-leader.com/preps_basket...0426-71805.html

I'm not sure why you guys get so excited about this stuff. Everyone knows who the best player in the state is anyway regardless of class, and he is in Poplar Bluff.

I can tell you that for some reason even the most obvious and straightforward NCAA rules can be extremely difficult to remember and follow, even for someone, for example, with a law degree and MBA from Duke, who may think that all rules are open to interpretation. That example is for illustrative purposes only, and was not intended to refer to any specific person.

In other words, their lawyers told them to pull it.

I tell you what, that really ticks me off. I mean in a sense the report states that its simply repeating rumors, but that in itself is news given where the rumors are circulating and the reporters who chose to report it, and worthy of discussion. It's funny that Nick has a problem with those kind of rumors, but the couple of posters who claim to have sources "inside" the program can post that its all bs and any penalties will be minor. As usual I have mixed emotions about it. I certainly hope it's not true. On the other hand, if it is, I hope it's justification enough to clean house, hire a solid/ethical coach, and start trying to rebuild our reputation Worst case: it's true and they still don't clean house. Under that scenario, I might actually have to stop being a Mizzou basketball fan for the first time since I was about 7 years old. That would be a pity.

The drawings look great. I just wish it wasn't named after a 22 year old girl from USC. Meanwhile, KU's stadium is named after Phog Allen.

Until this nightmarish season, I might have tried to argue that MU is better in basketball than SLU. As we sit here today, after not making the NCAA tournament despite being ranked in the top ten to start the year, after having lost in the first round of the NIT, while we are waiting for the NCAA to release its findings on its investigation of our program hoping for only "minor" sanctions, after losing three times to KU and losing to Illinois with new coaches at both jobs, after our new arena is going to be named after a 22 year old girl who goes to USC, I have no enthusiasm for trying to argue that MU is better than any other program. I simply can't do it. I have been following MU basketball closely for about 25 years, and this is the lowest point we have ever been, IMHO.

Thanks for the suggestion, Roy. I don't know if I would just be trading one set of frustrations for another, but at least I have a good feeling about Soderberg. Snyder-not so much. You know, I used to be a big red fan until they did me the favor of moving to Arizona. I kind of wish the basketball program at Missouri would do the same, and take Floyd, his wife and the Lauries with them.