Bay Area Billiken

I've never accepted the bad history either. History does provide a reference point to try to determine some of the roots of the problems. And it should show people that things are not quite as bad as they think they are right now. And I know this has been a very disappointing season. Although SLU Hoops can be better, and actually has been better, it also has been much worse. Some of the fans have no idea how bad it was at one time. We're talking about 2 sets of attendance figures, both of them pathetic, no cheerleaders, rather a dance team, no student pep band, even no Billiken during Ekker's time, until this poster and his college roommate refused to leave Ekker's office our Senior year until he let us restore the true Billiken mascot. We formed our own band in the dorm that played at one end, while the official rent-a-jazz band played at the other end. We formed the SLU Crew, the predecessor of the Blue Crew. As for the team, how can anyone forget that Ron Ekker "offense," which seemed to consist of 3 or 4 guys holding the ball over their heads and throwing a weak pass around the perimeter? Try to beat a National Championship team like Louisville. Dunk, dunk. SLU got destroyed by teams like that. Do you realize that SLU once drew 3,200 people for a game against then #1 ranked DePaul? The point: there are problems, but they are not fatal. They once were nearly fatal. Did you know that we were scared that SLU was going to drop to Division 2 or lower? Let's not go back there. I don't think SLU is anywhere near that stage.

Tommie Liddell did that against GW after that monster putback dunk. But you are right. Liddell and Kevin Lisch are both Sophs, not Seniors. I also think SLU needs a ball handling point guard to take the pressure off Liddell. Ordinarily, Lisch would be a big help with ballhandling, but his left hand has been mummified. Was he bandaged that much last night? Injuries are a part of the game. But there is no question that Lisch's injuries have taken their toll this year.

Correct. OCU used to be a MCC bottom feeder in NCAA D-1 before going into the NAIA. OCU used to be coached by Abe Lemons. The Billikens of the early Rich Grawer years actually went 4-2 v. OCU, but both losses were on the road. OCU was so bad then that Coach Grawer's first SLU team (5-23)actually beat OCU at the old Kiel.

The practice facility (West Pine Gym) has been archaic for decades. It was outdated well before Rich Grawer arrived at SLU. When Grawer arrived, he at least got the place painted and made some cosmetic changes. Ironically, one of the first things he did was get the old MVC school banners out of mothballs and had them hung in the gym, even though SLU was then in the MCC, not the MVC. One SLU Coach said he literally closed his eyes when he first showed a recruit West Pine Gym. SLU now has a state of the art practice and game facility being built. So at least that part of the equation has been addressed.

As I recall, since Rich Grawer was the coach, SLU has had the following AD's: Jim Bakken Joe Yates Debbie Yow Doug Woolard Cheryl Levick That's 5 AD's in the last 17 years or so. Spoon's departure and the more recent conference domino moves occurred while Woolard was SLU AD.

Also, in the overall history of SLU Hoops, those crowds of 17,000+ during the Spoonball Era look more and more like the exception, as opposed to the rule. SLU Hoops really hasn't recovered from Spoon's departure. What was it about Spoon having to account for that ice cream cone as the straw that broke the camel's back? Spoon was not the greatest recruiter, but he was very popular. He also had his share of bad, sub-.500 years at SLU. Even under Lorenzo Romar, the slow decline started. And Romar is a highly respected coach in most circles, both as a bench coach and as a recruiter. I know that Romar was the Coach at the Miracle of Memphis, and that SLU made that NCAA Tournament appearance in his first year. But the cupboard was pretty barren when he left. During this time, there have also been 2 AD's. As the SLU program went into this slow decline, the conference domino moves happened. And there went most of SLU's main rivals to the Big East. Had those conference shifts occurred when Spoon was in his heyday at SLU, would SLU be in the Big East today? It is just a difficult situation right now. But believe me, it has been much, much worse in the past. SLU was at rock bottom after Ron Ekker. SLU is no where near those times right now.

I believe you are correct. All these questions are really for after the season. There is still a season to salvage now. On the other hand, maybe the attention will not be as acute post-season. I just don't want this affecting what is left of this season, if that is at all possible. There are still 3 winnable, must win home games left on the schedule this year.

I also think they are similar. However, the Grawer/Lee Winfield tandem were better recruiters. At least the evidence supports that overall.

Now is not the time to panic. That will just make things worse. The coach is not going to be fired during the season. Even Ron Ekker finished the season after announcing his resignation. The focus now must be on these next two home games against LaSalle and Dayton. Both are winnable games. Both are must win games for SLU. Then comes the road game at UMass, followed by another winnable home game against Richmond. So absent an upset, SLU should be 18-11, 8-7 going into the season finale at Dayton. Is that acceptable? No, but that is the reality at this point. It would be nice steal at least one of these two remaining road games too. Negativism breeds more negativism. The strong teams and coaches rise above this adversity. Forget the past results. Move forward. Win those next 2 at home and go from there.

Bruce Weber has taken some heat too. His recruiting is an issue at the big U of I. He made that NCAA Championship Game appearance with Bill Self's players. Re Coach Soderberg's comments, aren't some things better left unsaid?

I think that is right based on history. I had higher hopes this year too. But when I sat down and looked at the schedule, those years and years of history colored my thoughts in realistically trying to predict. SLU has always had trouble playing on the road. You can go back to losing on the road to terrible teams like Oklahoma City of the old MCC. And then SLU pleasantly shocked me by going out and winning on ESPN2 at St. Joseph's, of all places. That showed that this team should be better than 15-10, 5-6. This team should not have lost at St. Bonaventure. And this team certainly should not have lost at home to Duquesne. So, my point is that the record is about what I expected, maybe 1 game worse. But I am still disappointed, as I was hoping for an NCAA bid this year.

I didn't say 17-12, 8-8 is acceptable. In this season, it is not. It is about what I expected. I've followed SLU hoops since the 1970's and am a survivor of the Ekker Era. You have to understand. While it seemingly should be better, it also could be much worse, much, much worse. 17-12, 8-8 under Ron Ekker would have been cause for celebration amongst the then few, the proud. SLU never approached that then. As previously stated, I am not a member of the Kool-Aid Club. Nor am I ready to join the ABC's. Perhaps there is a third, centrist party, the Disappointed Dilemma Group. That's where I'm at right now. And you know about the horns of a dilemma. Which way should we go? I don't know right now. It isn't as crystal clear as it was, say in 1982, when it was painfully obvious. Does the current coach have solid inroads into that Class of '08? What are the real chances of the current coach signing solid recruits from that class? Does the presence of the current coach's son in that class enhance SLU's chances of recruiting success there? If the current coach is gone, there goes the son's influence, if he has any.

I'm talking home and home. I'm not defending SLU's season, but the only home game that SLU lost that it should have won is Duquesne. It remains my opinion that SLU beats SIU in St. Louis.

I couldn't be any more serious. I've posted before that something is wrong with the RPI rankings. In my opinion, there is no way that SIU is the 9th best team in the country. Again, I saw SIU play in person. They barely beat RPI #176 (St. Mary's). That game was tied late and could have gone either way. If you saw the game, you could see that SIU really had only 2 good players in Tatum and Falker. Once SIU gets in the NCAA, any club with good big men will be able to overpower the 6'7" undersized Center, Falker. Don't listen to me. Go ahead and pick SIU in your brackets. As always, a lot will depend upon the competition. But I will say this, if SIU barely beat St. Mary's, if the Salukis get matched up with say a Santa Clara in Round 1, with 6'10" and 6'11" starters, don't bet that farm in Little Egypt on the beloved, media darling Salukis.

Well, in 2000, I was actually in Cleveland watching SLU lose to Utah in Round 1 of the NCAA. Oh yea, this is 2007. Never mind.

If SLU wins out at home and loses the 2 on the road, SLU will be 18-12 (17-12 v. D-1), 8-8 going into the A-10 Tournament. Frankly, even with the high expectations, SLU would be just about where I thought SLU would be. Obviously, I had SLU winning at the Bonnies and beating Duquesne. But I had SLU losing at St. Joe's and probably losing at home to GW. SLU is probably 1 game behind where it objectively should be. I agree that the Coach needs to stop these comments. He doesn't need to treat the post-game interviews like some type of personal confession. The comments are doing him and the team no good. SLU cannot slip up at home against 2 schools that might not make the A-10 Tournament in LaSalle and Richmond. And SLU must find a way to beat Dayton this year. SLU should be able to beat Dayton, at least in St. Louis.

Granted, SLU's season cannot be defended. That is not my point. My point is defending against this blanket condemnation. What are the real facts behind Bernie's jabs? And SLU should not be used in a PR piece to pump up the Valley. Will those MVC Tournament games draw significantly bigger crowds than SLU games? Is St. Louis waiting with baited breath for those 7-10, 8-9 Valley matchups in the opening round? Also, I am of a vastly different opinion than Canadian re SIU. SLU would not lose 9 out of 10 to SIU. Just look at SIU's history of losing to SLU in games played in St. Louis. It has been the rarest of rare birds for SIU to beat the Billikens in St. Louis. Again, I have seen SIU play in person, and I have seen SIU play on TV. I would not bet the farm that SIU will go far in the NCAA. SIU has a good guard in Tatum and an undersized Center in Falker. What else is there?

For the record, this poster is not a member of the Kool-Aid Club. But I do feel compelled to come to the defense of the alma mater when a blanket condemnation like Bernie's appears like today, especially when Bernie uses SLU to prop up further the Missouri Valley, that conference of the rigged RPI. Re the Valley, SIU is not that much better than SLU. SLU beat SIU last year, and it says here that SLU would beat SIU in St. Louis this year. I saw SIU in person barely beat an average at best, and now disappointing, St. Mary's team in a game that could have gone either way. SLU beat Missouri State. No, the Valley is propped up on its perch by judicious scheduling and being ahead of the curve in figuring out the RPI. The Valley has a number of average to below average teams- Indiana State, Illinois State, Evansville, Drake. The Valley has a big disappointment in Wichita State and another middler in Bradley.

I just read Bernie's column. He includes what has become his usual quick hit and run re SLU without substance or explanation. 1. Is Bernie (still) holding a grudge because Father Biondi specifically mentioned (joked) about Bernie at the press conference when Brad "Soderberger" was announced as the new SLU Coach? 2. Bernie's choice then was Brian Gregory, who has not exactly distinguished himself at Dayton since taking that job. 3. Bernie kept that running tally of days in the paper about the new Arena not getting done. Does the Bern know that money does not grow on trees? Is he aware that SLU is a private school? And the Arena is being built. 4. What exactly does Bernie mean about SLU being in the 1950's? I wasn't alive in the 1950's, and Bernie wouldn't remember life then, if he was alive himself. Frankly, looking at the record books, the 1950's were good times for basketball at SLU. SLU had 2 All-Americans then and 2 NCAA appearances in a greatly reduced field. There is no question that this has been a disappointing season for SLU. Expectations were justifiably high. It would be one thing for Bernie to write about what has happened, what has gone wrong. It is quite another for a blanket condemnation without any substance. And then Bernie gives the PR piece for the Missouri Valley. The Valley is a 3 team NCAA league at best this year. Wichita State has had just as disappointing of a year as SLU, if not more so, considering that WSU was in the NCAA Sweet 16 last year. Bernie just sluffs that off to the allegedly tough competition in the Valley. No, that is not the reason. WSU has had a bad year too. Is there a double standard right in Bernie's column itself?

And LaTodd Johnson lived on our floor in 6 Gries, the old Cellblock 6, and played 2B on our intramural softball team. Dick Missavage was a classmate in the Business School. Man, could the Sav shoot. If they only had the 3 point shot back then.

There are so many. One of my all time favorites was Erwin Claggett, who was also a big favorite of Coach Al McGuire on the TV broadcasts. The star of the game for the first Billiken game I ever saw in person was a freshman named Ricky Frazier. In my undergraduate days at SLU, we had Kelvin Henderson and David Burns. In my SLU Law School days, the early days of Coach Rich Grawer, SLU had Luther Burden and Pee Wee Lenard. Quitman Dillard, Monroe Douglass, Roland Gray, Anthony Bonner, Jeff Luechtefeld, Scott Highmark, Donnie Dobbs, H Waldman, Jeff Harris, Larry Hughes, Justin Love, Maurice Jeffers, Marque Perry, Tommie Liddell, Kevin Lisch, and Luke Meyer. Who am I missing? Some fine players have played for the Billikens. I was just reading two articles about perhaps the greatest Billiken of them all, Easy Ed Macauley. When I was growing up, Easy Ed was the TV analyst on the Missouri Valley Game of the Week, which came on the air at 12:30 p.m. each Saturday afternoon.

You are absolutely right re the format being for RPI purposes. It used to be a standard 1 vs. 8, 2 vs. 7, 3 v. 6, and 4 v. 5 in the first round, with all teams needing to win 3 games to win the WCC Tournament. In the early days of Coach Few at Gonzaga, he came down to the Bay Area for the WCC Tournament and complained vociferously about why his #1 seeded Zags had to play then #8 Portland, then a big bottom feeder, which wreaked havoc with the Zags' RPI. In a subsequent year the format was changed to the current one.

I fall asleep watching them too, especially these games that start out here at 9:00 p.m. on Monday night. And we are two hours behind.

Congratulations to Mike for this well deserved honor.

That was a tremendous road win for the Santa Clara University Broncos and "retiring" Coach Dick Davey. Gonzaga's woes are like the end of Camelot. This is unprecedented in recent times. No tears will be shed here for the Zags. Frankly, it has been amazing how Gonzaga, located in Spokane, Washington, of all places, has been able to dominate this league, which has 3 schools in the SF Bay Area, 2 in the LA Southland, 1 in San Diego, along with traditional bottom feeder Portland. The WCC looks like a 1 bid league. It will still come down to who wins the WCC Tournament, which is in Portland this year. Elsewhere, USF beat LMU at USF on ESPNU and is now 7-4 in the league. But Santa Clara swept arch-rival USF this season. Guess who of all people was at USF's War Memorial Gym tonight as the TV analyst on ESPNU? It was none other than former SLU Coach Charlie Spoonhour. Had I known Spoon was going to be there, I might well have been in attendance at War Memorial Gym. St. Mary's lost again, this time at Portland. The Gaels are in freefall collapse at 5-6 in the WCC, tied for 4th with San Diego. Former SLU Assistant, Randy Bennett's Gaels have work to do. They still have a home game with USF in Moraga coming up. The first 2 seeds (Santa Clara and Gonzaga) get 2 byes into the semi-finals of the WCC Tournament. The third (USF) and fourth place teams get 1 bye into the quarterfinals. Seeds 5 through 8 have to win 4 games to win the WCC Tournament.