courtside

A little late in the year to be finding some talented players for 06-07.

Marcus Williams gets a one semester suspension for stealing lap tops and selling them. On more than one occasion seen flipping off opposing fans and posing for tv, ...perhaps is was karma that his game tying jumper went in and out. He's a great player, on a great team. But won't be adding Big East Tourney title to reg season and post season accolades this year.

>2005-06 Collegeinsider.com Freshman All-Americans >Josh Alexander, G, Stephen F. Austin >Mario Chalmers, G, Kansas >Wilson Chandler, F, DePaul >Jeremy Chappell , G, Robert Morris >Devan Downey, G, Cincinnati >Bobby Frasor, G, North Carolina >Jamont Gordon, G, Mississippi State >Tyler Hansbrough, F/C, North Carolina >Jason Holsinger, G, Evansville >J.R. Inman, F, Rutgers >Juwann James, F, James Madison >Curtis Jerrells, G, Baylor >Brandon Johnson, G, San Diego >Tommie Liddell, G, Saint Louis >Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, F, UCLA >Tasmin Mitchell, F, LSU >Tyrese Rice, G, Boston College >Brandon Rush, F, Kansas >Diamon Simpson, F, St. Mary's >Rodney Stuckey, G, Eastern Washington >Tyrus Thomas, F, LSU >Mike Trimboli, G, Vermont >A.D. Vassallo, F, Virginia Tech >Marcus Williams, F, Arizona >Shawne Williams, G/F, Memphis I know a few ....Rush was Big 12 Frosh of year, Hansbrough was ACC ...Jamelle Cornley at Penn St, not listed on your list...was Big Ten Frosh of year, Mbah a Moute at UCLA was Frosh of year in Pac 10....and Dominic James, Marquette...on the above link list...but not on the cut and paste list you provided(had Bobby Frasor on there instead)....was Big East Frosh of year. Not sure other than Penn St if there was a player of the year in decent conference not on the list.

Taj, It was the Catholic Finals. Neumann was an all boys school and it combined a couple of years ago with the all girls shcool...and is located on 10th street South Philly. Roman, an all boys school is in City Center...on Broad Street. The Neumann kid hit the game winner at buzzer and sprinted toward the Roman section...who had been taunting him all game with Flava Flav pix and signs saying he resembled the rapper etc...buzzer game, hotly contested, two rivals...fans went on court...led by this player by the other team's section...fans in stands throew stuff as the player taunted them....it escalated...etc... It easily could happen anywhere else in the other mentioned places.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/baske...ame-brawl_x.htm

Director of Basketball Operations is an entry level position for graduated players who want to get into coaching, to learn. These positions, same position Drew Diener started with at DePaul before heading to UVA....are widely held all over the country. And gasp they run camps, help with recruiting, and practice often with the team. It is a very minimally paid position, and a position people do not have for more than a couple of years before they move on to another school...usually a lesser hoops program to move up the ladder more quickly to be a higher level assistant working toward a number 2 ast, and number one asst...etc...It is a training ground to get experience. Sort of like the old restricted earnings coach who made $13k a year and free apt. Those types of gigs.

The Big East didn't lose any prestige in hoops. Football, where the money is larger, ...lost some sure, but Big East was hardly a great football conference. But, is in BCS. As for the inclusion of those schools...simple....DePaul plays in 3rd largest market, has long tradition of hoops, as does Marquette....and S. Florida is there to play football, and the goal is to build a big time program at S. Florida...which is improving leaps and bounds each year.

Roy, Florida IS a high school football hotbed. And, S. Florida is a big school, ...some think a sleeping giant for football. It isn't so much to tell kids they can go play a game there...the idea is that S. Florida...and though not in the Big East, C. Florida can build some big football. HUGE schools. Football Football Football. And much progress has already been made at S Florida and C. Florida. C Florida wasn't even D-I long ago.

I've said many times before it starts with students and attracting students to games. Sure many have disdain for the apathy of current students. But thinking beyond that, in order for SLU to create any type of atmosphere, it begins with students...obviously having a great atmosphere for them and winning etc...also involved but you start with students...and recycle it with incoming class after class after class. Commitment from Administration to win, to have the facilities, to be able to market to students and young adults. Plenty of old people and little kids go, this isn't the issue. I for one though uncertain of the right size of the new arena, think it will only add to the college atmosphere, as opposed to filling the place with Joe random guy coming in to see a good game when they are doing well. While those folks are welcomed too, they aren't the focus. SLU should have a goal of a couple of thousand students EACH game. ...at least.

Kshoe, Please point out where I said "Courtside" was disappointed. KL and TL have played exactly to my expectattions, ...promising Frosh who will need some time to adjust to the college game, KL more so than TL, and it happened exactly that way. How soon we forget all of the posts and threads by others earlier in the season. Not my posts or threads, but they did exist. I always said they will be as expected top 100 level players, and SLU would be a solid NIT team. You can't take away the mistakes of the early games, just as you can't take away the good things of later games. Unless you were in a coma, you missed the many threads about these players earlier in the season. If they were better than advertised, SLU would be an NCAA lock team. They aren't. Do I think KL has done well as a Frosh, sure. So I think based on Roy's endless hype, he was as good or better than Roy hyped him, nope. KL met my expectations. And he met the expectations of the general public. He didn't meet Roy's based on his posts. So, if you are going to attribute something to me, get it right.

Lol....I merely responded to off base comments comparing Novak to Stemler....this isn't the first post I have seen it. I posted nothing on Marquette's team. I did ask around as I do all the time with different coaches/players/school officials/fans etc...and aded the Amoroso thing, something I didn't know until it was proved to me...because it didn't make a lot of sense. Stemler is physically non-comparable to Novak. I didn't see the comparison. Playing ability as well. I actually have no opinion on their team either way on this board. Certainly no different from any other team. THREE years ago(when Marquette was more relevant due to their same conference and final four spotlight at the time)_ you posted that you thought Justin Love was as good as Dwyane Wade. I disagreed. You also said that Chris Braun was as good as Steve Novak. I disagreed. I happened to disagree with you both times. I also believed another of their players would make all conference, when you thought otherwise. This was three years ago. The other part of the post dealt with expectations. It was/is my belief that expectations were too high with this year's Frosh. I was hoping some would learn from that. You for one, grossly over-hyped Kevin Lisch and how well he would do his Frosh year. I didn't single you out afte rthe fact...I merely cautioned everyone the danger of possible let down when that occurs. I think it is ridiculous to compare Stemler with a player of that caliber....only sets him up for failure according to this board. A more realistic comparison would have seemed more appropriate considering how this board runs with that stuff. I don't care about the team, the sport, etc...if I disagree with something, I'll do it. I will gladly standby my handful of times over the course of 3 years of posts in which I disagree on something when the comparison were of those above. I for one can seperate biases. The funny part is, when I do it over the course of a three year period with other topics, or other schools, or other players...they don't get brought up. The issue here is one that you have with Marquette, and what other people have with them...conference stuff etc...that is your deal. Funny I don't get these complaints when I talk about other schools too. I will always be objective regardless of school or player etc....and if it is a school you don't like every once in a while, tough. I'd rather be objective. I certainly think my posts speak for themselves over the course of years.

This is the problem as well. People need to really settle down. Steve Novak? Ryan Amoroso maybe. I posted this the other day. Marquette may lose Amoroso due to transfer and looking for a replacement. Novak is 4 inches taller, has been named top 15 senior in nation by some...should make first team all Big East conference, is his school's all time leading 3 pt shooter, leads the nation in free throw shooting percentage, and has highest all time in that category this year. His shooting percentage is also extremely high. And he will be single season all time 3 point shooter this year in Big East conference surpassing Ray Allen. He was top 50 out of high school, chose Marquette over a who's who of top traditional hoops schools. Could we please not compare Stemler to Novak? Come back to earth people. He is more like Amoroso. I realize Roy compared Braun to Novak a few years ago, laughably. Novak will be drafted, has improved many aspects of his game. The caution was there with Lisch and Liddell, top 100 kids, something SLU hasn't seen in a while...but not saviors. Let's keep SOME perspective on this. Is he good enough to play for SLU and contribute? Is he a better option than others being looked at? Those are the questions. SLU isn't all of a sudden a ....we only recruit top players palce because we had one good class of two kids. That isn't realistic. Takes time to build something. Role players will be recruited and needed. If Stemler has quick enough feet, quick release, great accuracy, ability to get off shots, ability to play a little taller than he is...he will add value. Obviously when a kid goes from juco, to unproductive D-I, injury, back to juco...etc...it is a different rout to take. Let's not dismiss him, and let's not over-hype him either.

I will dismiss the point altogether. Nate, you may want to flip through and look at a thread from last week or so regarding the affects of internet message boards on players and others. Everything was covered there. In short, you underestimate the intelligence of young men, and overestimate the power of message boards.

What you are not getting...is SLU winning out to conference final doesn't give them anything to think about. Theywill NOT be thinking about or considering SLU, period. Either autonatic or no. Winning the rest or losing the rest will not matter. I have a better chance at winning the lottery.

Let's not start the ....ehwn I saw him play one time back in...surely a player is judged by his entire resume and current ability. In regards to jucos....a lot of kids have great success in jucos and it doesn't always translate into great success when the move to D-I. .....not saying anything in regards to Stemler.

Based on past selections and comments from the committee ....winning 20 games for example...does't mean anything. Who you beat and where. How you do later in season helps some, but who is it against? Charlotte for example is a nice road win for SLU, but they are not an NCAA caliber team. Let's not overestimate the quality of the win or wins. SLU has ZERO chance of getting in unless winning conf tourney, epriod. Not to be e downer...but this talked about but no cigar stuff etc...not going to happen. I would have to agree with Lunardi's comments posted on another thread this weekend when posed with this question. He said SLU is closer to NIT bubble than NCAA bubble. There will not be a big discussion about SLU if they make conf tourney finals and lose. If GW does not win conf tourney, then 2 will make it. If GW wins conf tourney, one team will make it.

Victor would have to explain his post. I read it and re-read it and it reads to me to say he had doubts not about Levick when hired, but about hiring a female. On surface the comment strikes of a cup overflowing of ignorance. Perhaps Victor will post some numbers and examples of women AD's in major D-I nationally and all of their failures, to support his statement. Or perhaps in his 8th post, he is trolling. Who knows? I have actually lost count at the number of NATIONAL TITLES former SLU AD has won at Maryland...adding men's soccer to the list a few months ago...men's hoops etc....football team dramatically improved...huge upgrade in facilities $$ fundraising...dramatic upgrade in level of all sports teams revenue and non-revenue, serving leadership role to other AD's nationally on several committees. Perhaps Victor had doubts about Lisch's ability to play because he is a white guy...or perhaps doubts about Mike Anderson's ability to coach at UAB because he is a black guy? Okay I will stop...and will give Victor a chance to explain, defend himself, etc...and I would be happy to receive an explanation that would allow me to recant my comments. Tolerance for racism and general discrimination of any kind won't fly with me. Some people are ignorant in these areas, but it isn't an excuse to be allowed or tolerated.

Roy, You misread my comments. I regularly have praised/given credit to Soderberg for this year's class. Look them up if you like. Didn't say it was luck by any means, and I regularly give him credit. He obviously has won virtually every year he has coached anywhere. His ability to coach doesn't concern me. Style of play, and whether he can recruit well enough at SLU were the concerns I think everyone had. I don't think the concerns have been completely answered yet, certianly not in one class...and style of play offensively still concerns many on this board. I will be one of the first people to post about high quality recruits when they happen, and have done so with these kids. Surely you have read many of my posts throughout the year. On side irrelevant note, he is a good guy and have volunteered I am rooting for him and have shared personal anectdotes of personal time I have spent with Brad. I have also held the administration accountable for a commitment to men's hoops, and have taken into consideration SLU has very little hoops tradition. That comment might sting some people, but it is true. My comments were in response to Vtime's post....meaning...let's say BS doesn't get those two kids, and instead had a class similar to past years...he would be on the ropes with his job, because the team would be below .500 and doing poorly. That is fair to say. And it is also fair to give him credit for the efforts in getting them and actually getting them. I have said many many times BEFORE Liddell and Lisch began this year that they were an upgrade, top 100 kids etc...and so on..and have continued that. I even asked for people's patience with them early because very few players...top 50 or better caliber maybe...can immediately play well and get time as frosh. Mistakes will be made and corrected the first year...and possibly the 2nd. I never insinuated Soderberg's recruitment of those kids was luck. I merely said they saved his job...which is a bit much sure....but I was emphasizing a point to Vtime. And the point was this isn't high school ball or small level ball or a non-revenue sport. Stakes are higher for men's basketball at SLU, or at least they should be. That is what I was saying. I actually would go as far as telling you perhaps....perhaps....to be a little patient because if you look around at other programs Roy,....it is tough to turn something around and have difference maker recruits EACH year....especially at a school like SLU to this point.....SLU has NOT built Jack Squat yet...so I defintely expect there to be some hits and misses the next several years...no question. This isn't UNC. Soderberg will definitely have to get some better results from role players. Eventually over time...this is something I can in small part agree with V-time....SLU can become a perennial player. That won't happen in next few years. Don't be too concerned yet...now if the following year contains zero high quality top 100 (I hate using that phrase...but you get what I mean)...then the concern is SLU would be still a NIT level team. And I said, if two more years of no NCAA after this one...that would be a major concern. If SLU wins conf tourney and makes it this year...rightly or wrongly it changes a lotof things for Brad in his favor, and it will be deserved imo. The first goal is to make the NCAA's....and when it happens...it won't be happening EVERY year or even most year's at first...at least that is what is likely...always possible. I speak from the base of what it wakes to make the NCAA's and then what it takes to sustain it as a regular thing.

I can appreciate the enthusiasm. I have long held the general recruiting belief of recruiting inside out...meaning, Eastern MO, So ILL...then moving into central and No IL...Ark etc...and so forth...Chicago for example has plenty of players that can play...sure it is crowded...but there are always finds. If SLU does not make the NCAA's next year or year after...that will have been 6 years for Soderberg. And, like it or not he was on the previous staff too. I would agree it takes a while to build a perennial contender, a long while. My comments were mostly about just getting to the NCAA's next year or year after. One time. It won't happen this year with conf tourney title exception. Frankly, recruiting Liddell and Lisch saved Soderberg's job. Without them...SLU wouldn't have talented enough players...talented young players, frosh etc..get better by season's end...if they were avg or worse they wouldn't be getting better...just treading water which SLU has done a lot. Just having Lisch and Liddell, and IV for one more year, is NOT enough. Soderberg is getting paid good money to win big time college ball. Sure we can ll debate program commitment etc...and the bottom line is NCAA...NIT means very little in job security of big time college ball. I think people are encouraged...but SLU must find at least one recruit per year who can at least get off of the bench to give some quality minutes their first two years. The hope is SLU wil upgrade in overall talent, upgrade in role player talent etc...continue to produce one Liddelll caliber player a year. It isn't happening next year...so there better be one the year after. I agree it isn't easy, SLU has long had little tradition, little support, etc....and as much as people don't like to hear it,...style of play counts too....regularly scoring in the 70's would help BS' cause. The hope is SLU can get to the point of being a top A-10 team for a long time year in and year out...then hopefully aspire to bigger things. But a coach has to be held accountable. The vast majority of this board said SLU must make NCAA next year or year after or they want Brad gone. I created the poll myself.

Well...nothing personal, but let's start with you Mateen Cleaves example. Cleaves in 4 seasons NEVER shot less than 40% from the field, in any of his 4 seasons. In two seasons Polk's high is 35%. 3 pt range? Polk is also shooting 18% from 3 this year, and 26% from 3 last year. Cleaves never reached these lows. The topic is shooting primarily...but Cleaves also found the time to dish out 816 assists, (Polk I beleive will have approx the 130 range for two seasons combined), while turning the ball over only half of that amount. Cleaves also got to the line with much greater frequency. You could take into consideration Polk playiing on less quality teams...but then again that would mean Polk would also get more opportunity to score, on a score challenged team for two seasons. Polk IS a two guard in a point guard's body. They exist all the time...and their minutes usually get reduced each year and the player transfers. Not advocating it of Polk for the record...he has to do what is best for him. If Polk was shooting the ball well, or even anywhere near close to acceptable for his position, that would be another story. All of these guys get an opportunity to play in practice every day...and sort out who plays where. If Polk could play either the 1 or 2 well, he would play more, and be more successful. He hasn't been strong enough with the ball, doesn't create enough opportunities for himself or others, and doesn't shoot the ball well. He is speedy, and that is the only reason he plays. He is also undersized. In order to play at SLU and play well...he needs to work on not turning it over...which he has been okay with...then being an aggressive assist first player....then being able to knock down a shot to keep the defense honest. Doug Gottlieb for example was such a poor shooter at Oklahoma St., that he never took shots. However, he controlled the game at the point, and was among the national leaders in assists. If Polk did something else well...it would take pressure off of his shooting. So far, he doesn't.

Kshoe, I am going to evaluate the overall team, as well as the individual player for that year and career. Not just pick parts, or even a few games...or just at a certain position...a turnover for example is a turnover. Skip, I understand what you are saying and can agree with you. Many times earlier in the year, when people lost their minds, I posted about the transition from HS ball to major D-I ball...and that Lisch and Liddell were good recruits, top 100...they were hyped as more than that unfairly by some on the board. Surely they and IV have progressed a great deal...and expectedly....that is why you recruit them. Liddell for example isn't going to play 40 minutes a night, every night...and certainly not against the big boys. That makes Lisch and Polk the other options at point guard for next seasona and the season after. While SLU has other well documented needs...imo in order to be an NCAA competitive team, they need another guy at the position. I will gladly give you that with this current team, they have to put Liddell there and get most touches through him in order to succeed. As has been discussed by others, me etc..for months now...SLU needs the other couple of areas as well....but waiting until these gys' senior year, as was suggested, to bring another pt guard, I think would be a mistake. No knock on a great win and nice momentum....but this overall is about competing with the big boys, NCAA caliber teams, not the Charlotte's or whoemover of the world to me. The expectation I listed before the season was NIT, and that is what SLU is this year, an NIT team...they have 3 good players. They need a few more. I even said, BS gets next year and year after to make NCAA's...and he may do it next year. If that is to happen, SLU must win quality non-conference games, and more road games. The only other thing I would add is it is okay to compare Frehsmen to other Freshmen out there and how they stack up. Overall for example Liddell and Lisch have been exactly what I expected...Lisch perhaps took longer to adjust to the college game than many expected. Both are solid recruits. IV has surprised many with his improvement, and it was unexpected by many. Regardless of position, SLU needs to get a couple of "hits" next year and year after to sustain momentum and improve. You can't get to the next level, or next gear without combining a couple of classes in a row. Lisch and Liddell are good frosh, but not good enough to carry a limited team to NCAA(unless win conference tourney) as frosh. The improvement is encouraging, but also expected. That is why overall as a whole, they were recruited at the level they were...very good recruits...who would progress over their first year seeing a tonb of time. There are superstar recruits who immediately adjust and have had better impacts earlier....and on the other end, others who don't get much pt and play smaller roles as frosh. Has Liddell improved at the pt and overall, sure. But I also can't say what if this or what if that happened differently...I find the improvement encouraging...as I said, but I also take into consideration a long conference schedule against very very few high quality teams too. ...meaning, it better get better...a little of that too. Do I think SLU would have had some huge turnover games, big problems handling the ball if a few big time opponents were sprinkled in late....absolutely. 23-25 turnovers just a few games ago v Temple at home for example...with more strength on the ball it creates other opportunities. I'm talked out on the topic...I am down for depth at pt guard besides shooters and an inside player.

It certainly was a good local class for Donigan this year. Ream is versatile and can play several positions...a smooth defender, played sweeper in high school and wing back for Scott Gallagher. He will join two of his teammtes at SLU next year as Freshman. Ream will compete for time immediately in back. Josh Aranda also from Scott Gallagher and DeSmet is a central midfield stalwart. Controls the game, wins 50-50 balls, skillful player, tough, mature, leader. He will compete for time immediately in the central midfield. Jimmy Holmes...joined Scott Gallagher later than the other two...was Player of Year....mostly due to his 43 goals for Priory...almost scoring a goal in every game he played. Very speedy forward who has a knack for finishing and being in the right place at the right time. Some have questioned his ability to play at a high level in D-I college because he lacks the balls skills despite the above success, and he did it against lower level competition. Very hard worker has worked on techincal side of game, and continues to do...playig later with SG club helped, getting up against better competition. Opinions are mixed on what Holmes will be able to do at SLU. His speed, intelligence, work rate, knack for finishing are strengths....if he gets better ball skills he will do very well. Holmes is a wild card and will be interesting to see if it takes him a while to get to play..wouldn't count him out....Ream and Aranda are stud recruits. As reported in January, Vanderbilt University shockingly and unexpectedly has dropped its men's soccer program. The significance is forward Joe Germanese from SLUH. He has two years of eligibility and can play immediately due to circumstances. He would definitely help SLU at forward spot immediately. I have no word on his plans to transfer and where...but I would have to imagine SLU would at least give it a shot. Germanese chose Vanderbilt for Academics...over places like Stanford, IU etc...didn't consider SLU first time around...but you never know. He can play. He would start immediately for SLU.

Skip...what I do is separate two things: If I objectively evaluated SLU, what do they need to get better or be an NCAA team, and what would i recruit each year. ....I stated that in order to win in the NCAA tournament you need inside outside balance, ...after that if you could only pick one thing to win in NCAA it starts with a pt guard. Okay...let's take step one....objectively evaluating SLU at the pt this year. You would have to combine SLU's guards...COMBINE them just to be ranked JUST OUTSIDE of the top 100 in the assist category. Now, also taken into consideration, who else can finish besides IV? From watching play, and looking at the numbers, ...the assist to turnover ratio for Lisch and Liddell are not good. They will get better sure, and be surrounded hopefully by better players too. But they are in a different stratosphere than the top 100 plus people. Not close. SLU is averaging 14 turnovers a game against the nation's 89th toughest schedule. And, the amount of turnovers lately, or in conference, haven't been declining. SLU has a mediocre top 100 team with two promising Frosh. Obviously SLU cannot shoot the ball and are deserate for shooters. They also need another inside player. But if SLU wants to go 2 more years of Liddell, Lisch, and Polk as the guys handling the pt, serviceable, decent...but not good enough against competition far greater than what they are playing now. If Liddell spent all of his time playing there, and working on it for the forseeable future, I think he could grow into the position more in a couple of years...but is that what SLU wants? Having 1-2 years of him transitioning into good pt play? SLU at the very least needs to bring in a point guard to work with him, give some solid minutes off of the bench...if Liddell is to be the starter there. Liddell would have to at least double his assist output next year to legitamize his playing the position, and keep his to's where they are in the process. You mentioned if Liddell wants to play at next level he needs to be a pt guard. I would at least agree with that. And hopefully he will show major improvement playing the position next year. He does however need some help.

For next year? It is very very late in the game to get anybody at this point. My comments were what was needed in general. The responses coming back are more right now, today's date what do we do for next year? You have to get the best player regardless of position if someone stands out a lot from the pack. If SLU did get a couple of shooters and a big man or two the next one to two years....they would still imo need another ball handler to complete the deal. While much improved if they can land some improved players at the above areas...getting good ones is a big if btw...wouldn't be enough.

>He can drive and dish better than any Billiken in a long >while, doesn't have a great outside shot, and rarely turns >the ball over. Actually Liddell has 67 assists and 62 turnovers for the year. These numbers will improve each year. The ratio isn't good, and the amount of assists isn't a lot. Lisch's numbers are much worse...42 turnovers, 31 assists. SLU would have been helped by a true point guard this season to take pressure off of these two guys handling the ball. They didn't have one, and made due with what they have. Liddell could very well become a very good point guard...but the amount of assists must dramatically increase, as does the ratio of assists to turnovers. They will definitely improve next year...and we shall see how much.