RPI

[billiken_roy]

cpac said,

"I have nothing against the A-10. It is no where near as strong as the MVC. I think any knowledgeable basketball fan would say as much."

and any knowledgeable fan would say the opposite just 3-4 years ago when the decision was made. xu and st joes were both in the elite 8 that year and the a-10 sent 4 teams to the ncaa tourney that year. the mvc only sent 2 and northern iowa only got in because they got hot and won the mvc tourney.

from 1999 thru 2004 the a-10 was a top 10 conference and the mvc never got above 11th and usually lower.

wouldnt we all love to have the convienence of being able to know then what we know now.

[billiken_roy]

you are so so so correct. Elgin is a god and the mvc owes him big. i would trade bruno in a second for him. hell, i'd trade bruno for ragin cagin or phan.

[courtside]

>I think 'courtside' may have a small case of denial. It's

>nothing personal. I am a Mo Valley guy. My team is

>Illinois State. We (the Redbirds) stink.

>

>But I know quite a bit about all things college basketball.

>

>It maybe just a blip on the radar for a few years, but for

>the last 1.5 years the Mo Valley has been listed among the

>MAJORS in college basketball.

>

>Will it continue? Who knows. Coaches are in place as are

>facilites.

>

>I have nothing against the A-10. It is no where near as

>strong as the MVC. I think any knowledgeable basketball fan

>would say as much.

>

>And Lunardi's picks are usually right on. He doesn't give

>in because it's a BCS team vs. a mid-major. He goes with

>whom he thinks is most deserving. (according to how the

>committee would look at it.)

Let me see if I understand you...more people in the Joe Lunardi fan club..."And Lunardi's picks are usually right on."

That is what you said...gotcha. Then why is it that in the best year or years in the history of MVC ball...Joe only picks 3 MVC teams to dance this year?

Since you "know quite a bit about all things college basketball,"...and like to only deal with the past 1.5 years, and said...let me check here to get the quote correct..."the MO VALLEY has been listed among the majors in college basketball,"...why is it that only one MVC team was seeded better than 10 in last year." and that one was 7. You mean to tell me the MVC is among college basketball's majors and not one team in the conference received a seed better than 7..?

I am not the one in denial.

[moytoy12]

LOL! Thanks for the laugh Roy, that was good.

[cpacmel]

First of all, I could care less about the seeds. Just get into the tourney. Anything can happen then.

Lunardi has 3 MVC teams in right now. He also has 2 of the last 4 out.

I CAN LIVE WITH THAT. That's 1/2 our conference right there for bids.

He has the Big Ten with 4 teams in. And 1 team as the last 4 out.

To me that is very similar and I can live with that.

And courtside, the VALLEY did pretty darn well last season, EVEN WITH THEIR POOR SEEDS.

Even you can't deny that. Though I am sure you will try to.

[cpacmel]

>cpac said,

>

>"I have nothing against the A-10. It is no where near as

>strong as the MVC. I think any knowledgeable basketball fan

>would say as much."

>

>and any knowledgeable fan would say the opposite just 3-4

>years ago when the decision was made. xu and st joes were

>both in the elite 8 that year and the a-10 sent 4 teams to

>the ncaa tourney that year. the mvc only sent 2 and

>northern iowa only got in because they got hot and won the

>mvc tourney.

>

>from 1999 thru 2004 the a-10 was a top 10 conference and the

>mvc never got above 11th and usually lower.

>

>wouldnt we all love to have the convienence of being able to

>know then what we know now.

No doubt 3-4 years ago the A-10 was better than the MVC. No doubt about it.

[courtside]

>First of all, I could care less about the seeds. Just get

>into the tourney. Anything can happen then.

>

>Lunardi has 3 MVC teams in right now. He also has 2 of the

>last 4 out.

>I CAN LIVE WITH THAT. That's 1/2 our conference right there

>for bids.

>

>He has the Big Ten with 4 teams in. And 1 team as the last

>4 out.

>

>To me that is very similar and I can live with that.

>

>And courtside, the VALLEY did pretty darn well last season,

>EVEN WITH THEIR POOR SEEDS.

>

>Even you can't deny that. Though I am sure you will try to.

This thread has really gone off course. What you really misunderstand is that I am not a Kool-Aid drinker. Ask anyone here. I don't automatically think the A10 is a better place for SLU than the MVC because that is what SLU chose. Far from it. I do think it was a better choice for SLU...and inevitably this hurts the feelings of MVC fans. It isn't a position of sticking the nose up to the MVC. I have nothing against the MVC. It isn't the best fit for SLU for many reasons we have covered here all season. Apparently in head scratching fashion, that upsets MVC fans. They deem it necessary to post how great they are and how much they don't want SLU etc...if MVC fans didn't want SLU they wouldn't get so upset. They would just ignore.

As for your post, you said, "I could care less"....I am going to assume you meant I couldn't care less...otherwise what you are saying is that the seedings bother you, and I want to be clear. More Joe Lunardi press here. Ok, I will play along again. Why is it okay to post thaat oh btw his last 4 out are...when you don't add he has an MVC team as part of his last four in...that isn't misleading and misrepresenting facts? Picking and chooing which things help your cause. It means it is also entirely possible he may pick TWO only. Uh oh. I didn't feel the need to mention it...And actually while we are at selective facts...4 teams out of 10 is not half of the MVC. I wasn't a math major but again you mislead with your presentation.

And then you finish in big caps about how the MVC did last year in the NCAA. Of course previously you mentioned the MVC being now treated with the majors. Let me get it exact if I can here... "The MO Valley has been listed among the majors in college basketball." And when pointed contrary evidence, you reply with aw who cares? when I mention their seeds. It matters because for years the MVC wasn't winning those games and wanted better seeds and still didn't get them. This to me would say the MVC is not getting that respect it desires. And your Joe Lunardi example doesn't bring a lot of excitement either.

You and other MVC posters ignore even recent history as if it doesn't exist and at same time try to predict the future. In reality there isn't much current distance between the two leagues. The A10 has a much brighter history, much brighter recent past as well. I am not a big A10 guy. SLU wasn't good enough for the Big East and missed out on that one. The A10 overall as a league is closer to where SLU fits as a school and its goals other than basketabll. I don't dislike the MVC, it is a nice conference with basketball. Mark Turgeon said it best when asked the difference between the MVC and the big boys...and he said "height." The MVC has a lot of 6'6 centers etc...

I think the MVC has done a good job ahead of many other leagues at how to schedule smart to gain points in RPI. Unfortunately for the MVC the RPI is getting devalued vs some other components for the NCAA. SIU for example, zero high quality non-conference wins, they scheduled a ton of mid level road winnable road games and won a lot of them. Creighton is in same boat, their biggest win was vs Xavier. N. Iowa, etc...Mo State and Wichita St clearly are the two teams that stand out above the rest in non-conference. It's a nice league. But the league doesn't garner much respect outside of the Valley Region. It would need to get several league teams in for many many years and win many games for several years regardless of seed and maybe then it will get more respect, and perhaps it still wouldn't. Like it or not, all the A10 has to have is a couple of good teams and the coverage and respect would be far greater, that's just the way it is in the big city. The MVC will always be clamoring for respect and each year the MVC will be on pins and needles EARLY in the season for that one game they schedule non-conference against a bigger program, hoping they win that one shot at boosting themselves. Their non-league play is more important than their league play.

I hope the MVC does well as a league and in the NCAA's. Never said I didn't like the MVC, nor did I say that I wished it didn't do well. I said the league has not proven to be better than the A10 as a league. Maybe that will change with annual results for many many years, and hey, great for the MVC if it does. I believe you said 1.5 years...so either you have a memory problem, or you are so young you can't remembermore than 1.5 years. I also said overall sports and non-sports the the A10 is a better fit for SLU. Finally you conclude needing that pat on the back, needing that acceptance and recognition,...or perhaps best put validation for the MVC as a league as whole. Just enjoy your league. If you came here and said what do you think of our league, it would have garnered a simple positive response. But instead you came here misrespresnting facts multiple times, said the league was way better than the A10...didn't seem to care that even you said it was for 1.5 years, and in reality not a lot of difference in those 1.5 years. And obviously less than A10 the rest of time and no one can predict the future. You said it was considered among the majors when in fact it garners little national respect and has to fight every single year tirelessly to gain any respect. It is treated nationally like the little engine that could each year. Thanks but no thanks for joining the league, but I will be cheering for you.

[cpacmel]

>>And actually while we are at selective

>facts...4 teams out of 10 is not half of the MVC. I wasn't

>a math major but again you mislead with your presentation.

>

hey guy. Lunardi has 3 teams in already. In addition to those 3 that he has in, there are 2 additional teams in "the next 4 out"

I will do the math for you, since you weren't a math major

3 IN + 2 "next 4 out" = 5

5 teams out of 10 is half our conference.

Sorry bro.

[cpacmel]

> More Joe Lunardi press here. Ok, I will

>play along again. Why is it okay to post thaat oh btw his

>last 4 out are...when you don't add he has an MVC team as

>part of his last four in...that isn't misleading and

>misrepresenting facts? Picking and chooing which things

>help your cause. It means it is also entirely possible he

>may pick TWO only.

Thanks for playing along. What this means is the MVC has 6 teams right now, right there for bids. You may not take anything out of Lunardi's "Next 4 out" but it means those teams are right there on the door step for at-large bids.

>SIU for example, zero

>high quality non-conference wins, they scheduled a ton of

>mid level road winnable road games and won a lot of them.

I guess you don't include Va Tech as a high quality non-conference win?

That same Va Tech that has beaten UNC and DUKE both this season?

It's cool man. I understand where your coming from. Your just alittle short on your facts.

Good luck the rest of the season.

[courtside]

I will greatly anticipate seeing those 6 teams from the MO Valley in the dance, and if so, good for them. Is that what you needed, a a 1.5 year pat on the back? ...because I know its tough being in the Valley, fighting for recognition each and every year. I am also certain you will come back when the MVC doesn't get that many teams in as well. Just like how you posted prior to this past year?

[cpacmel]

>I will greatly anticipate seeing those 6 teams from the MO

>Valley in the dance, and if so, good for them.

I will happy if they get 3-4 bids in the Big Dance and another 3 bids in the N.I.T.

BTW, did you know a top 6 conference in the RPI has always gotten atleast 3 teams in the Big Dance?

[courtside]

You must really love the SLU board. Why don't you go up a few threads and read Bay Area Billliken's post on MVC? That might help you as well. I'll tell you what. Why don't you list me all of the reasons SLU should be in the MVC?(I will expect a long list, also please take into consideration the school's mission) That'd be great. The MVC isn't the best fit for them, and somehow that offends MVC schools and fans. Why I don't know, you would have to tell me. Somehow not best fit is negative or too good ...

Now the story once again changes. Now it includes NIT. NNNIIITTT. You must be new to this board. This is all about the NCAA's here. And nowhere in this discussion has the term NNNIIITT been mentioned. People here might throw stones at you if you mention NIT, be careful. 6 teams, 3 teams....all the same right?

Again, what is this discussion about? RPI, A10 better fit for SLU. And it even turned into athletics alone, and I allowed for that, when athletics is only part of the equation for SLU. But even in athletics alone, the MVC hasn't achieved much respect outside of the Valley. How is getting 3 teams into the dance with bad seeds something to compare to major conferences?