Lurking Dog

No, it's a Jesuit from Omaha. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cretin

I imagine Cretin would be a rival if you were in the MVC.

Yes. UWM doesn't travel as much as their cross town rivals. They play a lot of D-III junior varsities. http://www.uwm.edu/StudentOrg/MPF/

Not happening. You might find yourselves in this conference, however. http://www.xu.edu/football/mcfc.cfm

I was surprised to see how low Rhode Island's attendance has been. For a state university in a scholarship conference, they have very little interest in football. URI ranks behind three PFL schools in attendance, and they're only slightly ahead of San Diego and 1,700-student Davidson. http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/Internet/attend...GATTENDANCE.pdf

Link for Box and Won-- http://www.courierpress.com/news/2007/nov/08/08c01beard-col/ Evansville was in the Pioneer league for 5 years before dropping football. BTW, Dayton will represent the PFL in the Gridiron Classic on December 1. As they say on TV, "check your local listings."

Aside from Campbell, which is already scrimmaging in preparation for 08, no D-I schools have announced nonscholarship programs at this point. However, I believe Detroit Mercy is close to making an announcement. They completed a multi-purpose field this fall and have been talking up football. The article mentioned that Viverito had a meeting with potential future nonscholarship football schools. Here's the list. I hope I haven't forgotten any... Detroit Mercy (only one ready to move soon) Mercer High Point Lipscomb Evansville Kennesaw State** Harding (would move existing program from D-II)** ** considered to be less serious than other attendees What may start as 2 divisions/12 members could end up looking like the format for A-10 basketball.

Here's a good article on nonscholarship D-I football. http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll...9/1091/SPORTS02 If you can get past the headline, notice that the PFL will probably announce expansion this month.

Very cool SLU helmet. Thanks for posting the picture. Since the Billikens dropped football in 1950, this is a 1960s club helmet, isn't it? For any of you who visit Kansas City, I recommend Chappell's Bar and Grill for a good display of football helmets and sports memorabilia. It has more Kansas City Athletics stuff than I've ever seen in one place. http://www.chappellsrestaurant.com/chappells/

On the subject of Santa Clara football-- You may or may not have seen this site: http://www.letthemplay.com/ I suspect there was some collaboration with the creator of the Georgetown fan site. Same style, don't you think? http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/football.htm

If you plan to follow the Patriot League model, good luck. You could end up like Georgetown...or worse yet, like St. Mary's. As a Bay Area resident, you probably remember SMC was a 16 equivalency squad that joined a fully funded conference one week, then dropped football the next. The athletic aid put them in a big hole. Speaking of good teams, Dayton is ranked #25 in this week's coaches poll. PFL board: http://pflfan.proboards26.com/index.cgi my fansite: http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd/

re; Patriot League athletic aid I think the NCAA insists that the school (athletic dept) does the financial transaction. Institutional control and all that... Georgetown moved from true nonscholarship football to the Patriot several years ago, with promises of scholarship equivalencies, improved facilities, and Ivy league opponents on the schedule. They ran out of money for most of it. And they probably could've picked up a few Ivy League games without joining the Patriot League. So the Hoyas have maybe 15 equivalencies, league constraints on recruiting (academic index) and a losing reputation. Dayton will out recruit them every time.

Box and Won, Duquesne is joining Northeast Conference football next year. They will add up to 30 scholarship equivalencies, which the NEC allows. Don't forget to add SIU-Edwardsville, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, and Marquette to your list of existing club teams! In case anyone wants to see a D-I nonscholarship startup in progress, see Campbell's football website at: http://www.gocamels.com/SportSelect.dbml?D...amp;SPSID=65455 The Camels will be in the PFL next year. TV News report on their Homecoming scrimmage: http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/1951465/

I believe Feinstein's book was written before the Patriot League allowed basketball scholarships. In football, Patriot League athletic departments buy out student loans. This is done for players only, and those who quit the team lose that part of their aid package. Most Patriot League football programs are funded at 50-55 equivalencies (NCAA limit for their level is 63). That's different than the Pioneer Football league, which doesn't allow any aid not available to students in general. Patriot champ Fordham, by the way, lost to Dayton of the PFL earlier this year. Fordham's football budget is 3-4 times Dayton's because of the athletic aid. See question 2: http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd/faq.html

BTW, you're invited to visit my blog/fan page. There you'll find a link to a PFL message board. http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd/

Warning: long winded reply... I-AA football is an "equivalency" sport, meaning schools can award partial athletic scholarships (it's full-ride or nothing at I-A schools like Mizzou). One equivalency is equal to one full ride, but may be made up of athletic aid to X number of players. The I-AA equivalency limit is 63 (I-A allows 85). In I-AA, the maximum number of players who may receive athletic aid per team is 85. I-AA has many "fully-funded" squads (i.e. at or near 63 equivalencies). These include everyone in the Gateway, Big Sky, Southern, and Ohio Valley Conferences. There are a few that allow athletic aid, but aren't fully funded. The Northeast Conference limits its teams to 30 equivalencies. The Patriot League (which wrongly claims to be nonscholarship) uses athletic money to buy out student loans. Most Patriot League programs are in the 50-55 equivalency range--that number limited by the 85 counters rule. Because of their relatively high tuition, Patriot League schools have the highest budgets in I-AA (many over $3 million per year). The Ivy League does not allow athletic aid, but has a system for admitting football players who fall below normal standards for GPA, class rank, and test scores. The Ivy also has adequate institutional aid (for all students, not just athletes) so no one is burdened with a student loan. The Metro Atlantic and PFL (Dayton's league), like the Ivy, are true nonscholarship leagues. The PFL won't even allow its players to get athletic scholarships from another sport. You'll see PFL coaches go after athletes who qualify for merit aid (e.g. Presidential Scholarships). That effort has been successful, as demonstrated by the high number of Academic All-Americans from the PFL--and especially from Dayton.

Dayton is classified Division I, Football Championship Subdivision. That's what they used to call I-AA. They haven't been Division III since 1992.

> Don't forget Louisville will be a BCS contender with Michael Bush >back. Bush is now an Oakland Raider. And the Chiefs drafted his backup.

Can anyone post a picture (or link to a picture) of former SLU football coach John Bender? ...and who looks more like a Billiken, Bender or Majerus? Thanks.

Everyone knows Des Moines is a pig town. http://www.worldpork.org/

And you can't get back in until you bring back football. I guess football would require you to build a stadium...an Eiighty-Fiiive Miiiiiiiiiiiilion Dollar Stadium.

However, it may have been considered an exhibition. President Roosevelt talked the teams into demonstrating proposed rule changes for the next season, including the forward pass. The opposing coaches served as refs for the game.

>The first team to use the forward pass! That would be another former Missouri Valley Conference member, Washburn University. Specifically, Bill Davis-to-Art Solter...against Wichita State, Christmas Day 1905. BTW, here's a site with a little history of defunct programs. http://www.geocities.com/football_graveyard/

>Georgetown, San Diego, and the >other schools are all D-IAA schools. I'm not sure what the >scholarship limits are or even if these schools offer >partials, but to the best of my knowledge a partial is all >you'd get at those schools. The I-AA scholarship limit is 63 "equivalencies" (NCAA's term for scholarships that may be distributed as partials). The "counter" (recipient) limit is 85. In the Catholic I-AA world, these come to mind: Villanova (A-10): fully funded, probably a few full-rides. Program loses $3 million per year. Fordham, Holy Cross (Patriot): 50-55 equivalencies, with many near full-rides. Also heavily subsidized. Georgetown (Patriot): 20ish equivalencies? They may have bitten off more than they can chew by moving to Patriot League football. Sacred Heart (Northeast Conference): 15-20 equivalencies. Duquesne, Iona, Marist, St. Peter's, La Salle (MAAC): nonscholarship...little travel, $300,000 annual budgets. Dayton, San Diego (Pioneer Football League): nonscholarship.

>Looks like STL on their helmets Yes, thats SLU v. Drake in 1948. Drake and Butler used to compete in Missouri Valley football with the Billikens (Butler only briefly). Now both Drake and Butler have nonscholarship teams in the Pioneer Football League. Dayton, Duquesne, and La Salle also have NCAA level teams without scholarships. Xavier may or may not get there.