Craig Upchurch article

[courtside]

"Severe reading problems" and "disabilities" and "questions read out loud" for the SAT. Enough said. I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. It's pretty obvious what happened.

Thomas Edison, Walt Disney, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Woodrow Wilson, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Mozart, John Lennon, Louis Pasteur, Alexander Graham Bell, John F. Kennedy, Pablo Picasso, Leonardo Da Vinci, Agatha Christie, Charles Schwab, William Yeats, Tommie Hilfiger, Earvin Johnson, Bruce Jenner, Richard Branson, Jay Leno, Nelson Rockefeller, James Carville, Ted Turner.

...And those are just a few of the ones whom I thought you and most of the board would know. They all seem pretty successful. Most of these people also didn't have the advantages of academic tutors and programs that help people with learning and reading disabilities. And, Upchurch did not get any help for it in grade school, nor at Beaumont. Just because someone has a learning disability doesn't mean that they aren't smart and can't be successful in life. Just because someone has a learning or reading disability, doesn't also mean that they cannot succeed academically, in a supportive envirnoment, with proper resources, including at SLU. I've seen it happen at SLU and elsewhere tons of times, with both athletes and non-athletes. By all accounts, Upchurch was a team player, good attitude, and a would be willing participant.

It's the very quick trigger, sweeping, "judging" attitude like this that doesn't allow for you to even see another point of view other than the one you made based on your personal value system.

Andre Miller was a prop 48, he graduated from Utah. Under Prop 48 rules, he had to sit out his Frosh year. And, because he graduated on time, rules allowed him a 5th season at Utah, a fourth on the court. He led Utah to the Final Four in his 4th season there, where Utah lost a close National Title game. He also donated $500,000 to the University a few years ago.

[inthelou]

Thomas Edison, Walt Disney, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Woodrow Wilson, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Mozart, John Lennon, Louis Pasteur, Alexander Graham Bell, John F. Kennedy, Pablo Picasso, Leonardo Da Vinci, Agatha Christie, Charles Schwab, William Yeats, Tommie Hilfiger, Earvin Johnson, Bruce Jenner, Richard Branson, Jay Leno, Nelson Rockefeller, James Carville, Ted Turner.

...And those are just a few of the ones whom I thought you and most of the board would know. They all seem pretty successful. Most of these people also didn't have the advantages of academic tutors and programs that help people with learning and reading disabilities. And, Upchurch did not get any help for it in grade school, nor at Beaumont. Just because someone has a learning disability doesn't mean that they aren't smart and can't be successful in life. Just because someone has a learning or reading disability, doesn't also mean that they cannot succeed academically, in a supportive envirnoment, with proper resources, including at SLU. I've seen it happen at SLU and elsewhere tons of times, with both athletes and non-athletes. By all accounts, Upchurch was a team player, good attitude, and a would be willing participant.

It's the very quick trigger, sweeping, "judging" attitude like this that doesn't allow for you to even see another point of view other than the one you made based on your personal value system.

Andre Miller was a prop 48, he graduated from Utah. Under Prop 48 rules, he had to sit out his Frosh year. And, because he graduated on time, rules allowed him a 5th season at Utah, a fourth on the court. He led Utah to the Final Four in his 4th season there, where Utah lost a close National Title game. He also donated $500,000 to the University a few years ago.

Courts - I don't disagree at all. You make excellent points. Personally I'd rather have the good player/athlete and risky student. I was more saying that, given SLU's resources and administrative attitude at the time, I don't think it was really that out of line or unexpected. Some people are posting like it was this big shock and unexpected injustice. And I still think it's time to move on and that the conjecture surrounding the whole incident is just that - conjecture.

[courtside]

Courts - I don't disagree at all. You make excellent points. Personally I'd rather have the good player/athlete and risky student. I was more saying that, given SLU's resources and administrative attitude at the time, I don't think it was really that out of line or unexpected. Some people are posting like it was this big shock and unexpected injustice. And I still think it's time to move on and that the conjecture surrounding the whole incident is just that - conjecture.

We are mostly in agreement. I am a huge believer that in life and in sports, "Balance wins." That may sound hokie and lame on the surface, but it works. Balance in this case would be of different types of players, different types of athletes, and different types of student athletes. There are extremes, in different directions, Stanford, or the other opposite direction of those types of schools with zero standard in terms of developing student athletes off the court in the classroom or as a person. Many fall in the middle of that, and then you break down even more from there.

While am I also the type that's always moving forward, I believe there is value in studying the past in order to not repeat the same mistakes, or in order to repeat the similar success, while also adding new things. In this case, Upchurch isn't talked about a lot here, nor is this topic, and it is a quiet off-season time. I believe it is unproductive to remain wallowed in the past, bad or good. I also believe it is unproductive to only dream about the future. I also believe it is unproductive to quickly dismiss uncomfortable topics without objective examination and learning something from them before moving forward.

I think it's a fair thread, with good info. I like Rich Grawer as a man and as a basketball coach, and I've long believed his recognition by the masses has been underserved. Likewise, if deserving, I'll champion deserving individuals from time to time. (especially those being bullied)

Again, for me, balance wins.

[slulefty]

Things have a way of working out for the kids who can balance competing in the classroom and getting lots of basketball practise; ie, Kevin Lisch and plenty of others. Those who can't graduate probably should not have been recruited in the first place ie. Dixon, Edwin, Pulley, etc.

For kids whether they are Public HS LEAGUE or prep schoolers or rich suburban private school grads to come to SLU or any other academically competitive college and think they are going to float through or even get playing time is foolhardy at best. The one thing you have to like about RM over

Romar, Spoon, Grawer, Soderberg is that he is going after kids who appear to be student athletes and that the rest of the student body accepts as equals in the classroom. i have seen nearly every home game and a few away games since we were in the old Keil and I would say you waste everybodies time taking a chance on a kid even if he has Upchurch type athleticism

Yea, Coach M recruited Willie Reed because he is a "student athlete." COME ON PEOPLE!!! That kid is the same if not worse than Craig Upchurch in school. Dont be surprise if he is gone after next year. WAKE UP EVERYBODY!!! Coaches will do or say anything to get the best players. Coach M is no different.

[drkelsey55]

Yea, Coach M recruited Willie Reed because he is a "student athlete." COME ON PEOPLE!!! That kid is the same if not worse than Craig Upchurch in school. Dont be surprise if he is gone after next year. WAKE UP EVERYBODY!!! Coaches will do or say anything to get the best players. Coach M is no different.

New poster, some old B.S. we get prior to being banded. How long will it take for this one. Any quesses????

[slulefty]

New poster, some old B.S. we get prior to being banded. How long will it take for this one. Any quesses????

Also, one recruit WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE in building, and then sustaining a b-ball powerhouse. Thats why recruiting is a such a nasty, cruel business.

For you people who are happy that coaches recruit "balanced" players and not "risky" players, explain to me what side does Liddell fit in? Do you really care what he does with his life? Would you give him a job? I dont see many ex-players working for any alums....