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>Note that the very first caller after the CL interview with >Slaten was from an SIU fan. Of course, the MVC wants SLU. >SLU's presence in the MVC would enhance the stature of that >conference. I already commented on this elsewhere, but over here in MVC-land, I've never heard any sort of comment about SLU whatsoever aside from the MSU game. The people that discuss this A-10 vs. MVC stuff are all in the St. Louis area. There is no talk whatsoever with MVC fans concerning SLU. The only time I hear it mentioned is when I come check here (call me an anomaly, I want all schools in Missouri to do well in athletics, I even check Tigerboard, the bastion of 12 year olds that it is).

I never really know where this comes from. Over in MVC land we never even hear about this sort of thing. I think people just like harassing SLU.

> >>The average points scored by every single MVC team is above >>60, the lowest being 61.5 by Indiana State, and the highest >>being 74.9 by Drake (followed by 74.4 by Bradley and 74 by >>Missouri State). Somehow you guys are confusing SIU's style >>of play with the MVC's. Yes, the MVC plays physical >>basketball, but SIU is the only one with such a >>hard-to-watch style (Except for SIU fans, who love it). MVC >>fans hate watching SIU play as well. > >Today's games >SIU 53 >Bradley 51 > >Creighton 75 >MSU 58 > >Yesterday's >SIU 71 >Drake 59 > >Creighton 59 >Indiana St 38 > >Missouri St 67 >Wich St 64 > >Bradley 51 >NIU 48 > >Thurs > >Indiana St 68 >Illinois St 65 > >Drake 101 >Evansville 96 OT > >Teams are scoring an average of 64 points in the tourney. >Take out the cellar dweller first round game between and >Drakw and evansville that went into OT and MVC teams are >averaging 59 points a game. > >This is great basketball?????????????????????? > >As a SLU fan I was always told it was horrible to play that >style. How times do change. The "great basketball" part comes where 5/8 of those games came down to the wire. And as I said, during the season, people didn't have a problem scoring.

>The valley teams all play this style. Brutally physical and >rarely scoring in the 60s. > >Of course when SLU played this way we were heavily >criticized for it. But when it comes to the valley it is >great basketball. The average points scored by every single MVC team is above 60, the lowest being 61.5 by Indiana State, and the highest being 74.9 by Drake (followed by 74.4 by Bradley and 74 by Missouri State). Somehow you guys are confusing SIU's style of play with the MVC's. Yes, the MVC plays physical basketball, but SIU is the only one with such a hard-to-watch style (Except for SIU fans, who love it). MVC fans hate watching SIU play as well.

>Read the thread. > >First, what are you doing on this board? > >Second, SLU fans have every right to object if the MVC >Commissioner is trying to get the NCAA Committee to consider >the SLU VICTORY a win for Missouri State. > >Third, hell will have frozen over and pigs will fly before >Saint Louis University or anyone from it has an "inferiority >complex" in regards to Missouri State, or whatever that >former directional school wants to call itself. > >Fourth, the point is now moot since Mo. State beat Wichita >State last night. That should put Mo. State into the NCAA. I've been on this board for several months. This isn't my first post. I'm not referring to anybody objecting to any MVC Commissioner. Do that all you want. And if nobody has an inferiority complex, then don't throw out high school insults so often about it - be mature about it. But it always seems like people on here try to blame the MSU players and fans for "whining" about the clock disaster at SLU. Nobody does that. I haven't even seen it on the sports messageboard. It gets really old.

>Get them (the NCAA) to consider the game a win for SMS? >Rubbish. SLU won the game, period. I knew this would rear >its ugly head again. These Mo. State folks will not let it >rest. Again they are paranoid about getting another NCAA >snub. If they take care of business in the MVC Tournament >and don't get ousted by Wichita State in the quarterfinals, >they are probably in the NCAA anyway. > >This whining, sniveling Mo. State stuff has gotten beyond >old and stale. These apologists are trying to stand the >rulebook on its head. > >Maybe SLU should simply drop Mo. State from the schedule >once and for all. This series benefits Mo. State much more >than it does SLU. If there is a need to play a Missouri >Valley school, replace Mo. State with old rival Bradley on >the SLU schedule. I don't think it has been mentioned at all by any MSU fans lately. They're mostly "Win the tournament and we won't have anything to worry about." Speaking of inferiority complexes.. relax with the accusations.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...11?OpenDocument SIU, Missouri State lead the way among region's teams By Jeff Gordon STLTODAY.COM SPORTS COLUMNIST 01/17/2007 Columnist Jeff Gordon (E-mail a "Letter to Gordo") As always, conference play is sorting the college basketball contenders from the pretenders. Southern Illinois and Missouri State are progressing toward NCAA Tournament bids, thanks to their solid performance in the deep Missouri Valley Conference. Both teams are 14-4 overall and 5-2 in conference play. The Valley, once again, will send several teams to the Big Dance. Wichita State and Creighton are still in the hunt for at-large bids, too. St. Louis University righted itself with two Atlantic 10 victories at home -– including a valuable victory over Xavier -– but the Billikens (12-5 overall, 2-2 in conference) still have much digging out to do. And Illinois and Missouri . . . well, they are on the NIT track as we speak. The Illini (13-6, 1-3 in the Big Ten) and Tigers (11-6, 0-4 in the Big 12) are taking their lumps. Both could finish in the bottom half of their conference standings, based on what we’ve seen so far. Here is a closer look at the teams, ranked in order of their national standing: SOUTHERN ILLINOIS Good news: Talented freshman guard Joshua Bone is back. He recovered from his broken foot in time to help SIU in conference action. Bone boosted the Salukis during their blowout win over Missouri State. Then he played a major role in their victory over Drake. “He played tremendous,†forward Randal Falker told reporters after the Missouri State game. “He came in shooting, he came in as a threat, he came in and did what he needed to do. I can't say enough about him. I'm proud of the little guy.†With Bone back, the Salukis have a solid nine-man player rotation with versatility and ample scoring depth. How many college teams have that? Bad news: They would like to take back that 48-46 loss at Bradley. And that eight-point loss to Arkansas, too. With victories in those games, SIU would rank in the Top 25. Coming up: Games at Evansville and Creighton -– followed by a home game against Northern Iowa -– will tell us if the Salukis really are the class of MVC. MISSOURI STATE Good news: Since that bad-luck 51-50 loss at St. Louis, the Bears have cranked up their attack -– averaging 81.8 points during their next seven games. After getting shut out at SLU, guard Blake Ahearn has scored 16 or more points in six of his last seven games. He scored 23 points -– with 14-for-14 shooting at the line -– in a 95-87 victory over Wichita State. Coach Barry Hinson has a solid player rotation, with eight players averaging from 17 to 30 minutes per game. Four players are averaging in double figures and seven players are scoring 7.0 points per game or more. Bad news: The Bears had to overcome 17 turnovers, 11 missed free throws and 18 fouls to win at Illinois State. A team with this much experience needs to execute batter than that one the road. “That's one ugly win,†forward Nathan Bilyeu told the Springfield News-Leader Coming up: Northern Iowa comes to Springfield on Thursday, then the Bears play at Evansville on Sunday. ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY Good news: The Billikens finally played their “A†game to beat Xavier. Tommie Liddell has found his shooting stroke, which makes him the best all-around player in the A-10. Bad news: Losses to St. Bonaventure and Duquesne (at home!) have left the Billikens no margin for error. They must dominate this conference to even get a whiff from the NCAA selection committee for an at-large berth to the NCAA Tournament. With six of their next eight games on the road, SLU will need to replicate Saturday night’s performance again and again. And with SLU’s starting five getting little help from the bench, that will NOT be easy. A-10 teams are swarming center Ian Vouyoukas with sag-in zones. So if Liddell and/or Kevin Lisch have a tough offensive game, SLU really struggles. There are no reinforcements. Coach Brad Soderberg has nobody in this freshman class capable of making a difference. After landing blue-chip recruits Liddell and Lisch previously, how could this happen? Coming up: SLU heads East to play Temple and Fordham. Since the Billikens already lost two games they should have won in the A-10, losing is not an option. ILLINOIS Good news: Big men Shaun Pruitt and Brian Carwell are raw but improving, which is very good news in the rugged Big Ten. Carwell opted not to sit out this season as a redshirt -– and that decision is looking better all the time. Overall, the Illini have hung tough in five of their six losses. If they can make better decisions with the ball (that means you, Chester Frazier) and knock down some late shots, they will start pulling out their share of games. Bad news: Long-range gunner Jamar Smith has lost his shooting stroke, which cripples a team already lacking offensive depth. He and forward Warren Carter couldn’t connect against Michigan State, leading to the Illini’s second-half collapse. Power forward Brian Randle hasn't gotten on track, either. When these key guys struggle, coach Bruce Weber has a tough time assembling player combinations that work. This team remains a work in progress offensively. Coming up: The road game at Minnesota is a good test. This is a team the Illini should beat. But the Golden Gophers play tough defense under interim coach Jim Molinari, so the Illini must take care of the basketball to exploit their match-up advantages. Another conference victory could do the Illini a world of good. “Xavier, Michigan and this one were all there for the taking,†Weber said after the Michigan State loss. “You have to do little things. We're in a bind. We're at Minnesota and then have Wisconsin at home. It's a big week for us. The season is going a little bit South, so we have to get it together before it's too late.†MISSOURI Good news: Monday night’s ESPN “Big Monday†game at Kansas was an excellent advertisement for Mike Anderson’s rebuilding program. They hung with the Jayhawks until the final possession and played their up-tempo game to the hilt -– promoting the program to future recruits. ESPN.com’s Andy Katz offered this bit of encouragement: “The consensus among the Kansas coaches late Monday night was that Missouri easily is the best team in the country that's winless in conference play. The Tigers are a tough matchup for anyone now that Mike Anderson has this squad runnin' and gunnin' (or last night, zonin').†Forward Matt Lawrence had a step-up game on the road, proving he could be a factor the rest of the season. Forward Marshall Brown and guard J.T. Tiller also are flourishing. Bad news: The Tigers are 0-4 in Big 12 play, no thanks to those painful home-court losses to Kansas State and Iowa State. To reach the NCAA Tournament, they either must win a number of conference road games -– a difficult chore for a team with size/rebounding issues -– or win the conference tourney. Physical mismatches forced the Tigers into a zone defense at KU, which took them out of their “40 minutes of hell†mode. Although some offensive spillage is expected when a team plays this fast, Mizzou has wasted too many possessions in conference play. The Tigers have hiked up some ludicrous shots. Too often, they have failed to convert a fast break. They have struggled to finish around the basket and they have missed too many free three throws. Guard Stefhon Hannah can’t create as much off the dribble against the more physical Big 12 opponents. Coming up: After a nine-day break to regroup, they play a must-win game at Colorado. At this point, Mizzou just needs to win a conference game and go from there.

>Curious as to who the two teams from the A-10 would be? >Minus the automatic bid from the conference tournament who >in our conference gets into the NCAA tournament? Good question. Joe Lunardi's Bracketology Scroll put out today disses the A-10 quite often.

A big issue with the MVC and A-10 is that, as stated a thread on here before, a lot of coaches view it as a stepping stone to the big paying jobs. The MVC is working to change that, such as Mark Turgeon getting $750,000 a year, as well as Dana Altman. I don't know about the A-10's efforts in that regard. And I was basing it on last year and this year, so far, with the record against BCS teams by the MVC being pretty good.

Amusingly enough, that top coach leaving for the bigger school managed to lose to 3 MVC teams, one of them being the last place team. As it were, the MVC of last year and this year is quite a bit better than the MVC of yesteryear, just as the A-10 of yesteryear was apparently a bit more well thought of than the current.

All it takes is scheduling good away games. That doesn't seem to be much of a problem since the "big boys" are too arrogant to leave their home court. Just schedule them and beat them. When you play Mizzou's non-con opponents and stay home, you're going to have a bad RPI. Common sense.

If SLU keeps this up, they may very well become a "bad loss" as far as the committee is concerned. It'll be interesting to see if that whole MSU/SLU clock fiasco gets mentioned come selection time.

>So no one from the A10 or SLU confirmed it? When you say a >couple of St. Louis area papers, there is effectively only >one St. Louis area paper and they do not exactly have a >reputation for being predisposed to the Billikens. > >"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands >up for others." - Ben Brad also said it was real, but that he wouldn't forfeit. Atleast that was what he said in the interviews. Tulsa had an article as well, and it's been mentioned on ESPN. I don't have any specific articles anymore since I figured we wouldn't hear about it again. Oh, and collegehoops.net I think.

>Did I miss something or did someone definitively confirm >that the clock on the scout tape was absolutely correct? >Everything that I have heard is that there is NO definitive >confirmation that either clock was absolutely correct. >Please enlighten me. > >Thanks, > >AlumniFan > >"A strong man stands up for himself; a stronger man stands >up for others." - Ben The MVC commissioner, MSU staff, and several reporters (From the Springfield Newsleader and a couple St. Louis area papers) verified it, yes. There were pictures and videos with screen shots, but as the NCAA rule goes, a decision can't be changed after the officials walked out of the building, so unless Brad forfeits the game (which he acknowledged that he won't) it'll stay as a win for SLU.

You'll have a difficult time with this because any of those top 5 teams could probably beat any of the other 4 on any given day and depending on the site of the game.

>It was just the game of the day on 12-18-06; not the game of >the month. Yeah, I guess I should have said "ONE OF the games of the month." Sorry.

From http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/stor...=afc&id=2718113 Dec. 18 Saint Louis 51, Missouri State 50 I'll first apologize to all of our Bears fans, as I didn't know the full circumstances of this ending before slagging Missouri State in our podcast the morning after this game. Secondly, should we now wonder if this is college hoops' equivalent of the Oregon-Oklahoma football game, when the wrong team won in large part because of referee error? It will be very interesting to see how the committee judges this game if one or both of these teams are bubble-bound.

>The head case is Hinson. He's an egomaniac. If Blake >wasn't so good he wouldn't have lasted through his freshman >season. That said I've heard nothing about Frazier >transferring in anywhere much less SLU. He was gonna fisish >up his degree at Mo St and move on with his life. Try Coach Miller on this one, not Hinson.

>>I don't know if you'd really want Tatum around. He's been >>arrested twice as a Saluki and is a bit of a thug. He got >>thrown out of a game by throwing a punch at one of our >>walk-ons. > > >Getting in a fight doesnt make you a thug. People always >focus on the negative. He's also an honor student, his >father is a professor, and his mother is the superintended >of the public school system in Jeff City, MO. Teddy Bundy was an honors student himself, from a good family. What's your point? If he hadn't been arrested twice or thrown punches, then I wouldn't have anything to point out. Of course people notice negative things. And yes, he swung at Trevyor Fisher, which is pointless to begin with.

>Who do you root for- Mo. State? If you're interested in talent, that's fine. If you're interested in talent that has class, then you'd be better off admiring somebody else. That's all.

I don't know if you'd really want Tatum around. He's been arrested twice as a Saluki and is a bit of a thug. He got thrown out of a game by throwing a punch at one of our walk-ons.

>f0, > >evidently, SMS couldn't handle two tough defensive teams. >you need to get that corrected before the MVC post-season >tournament gets here. Once again, what're you talking about? The Bears do fine against SIU every year. Considering they've been to the NCAA tournament 5 years in a row, I don't mind splitting a series with them. SLU did play some good defense, yes, but that's not why we lost the game (I'm not referring to the mismanaged clock situation either). I didn't post to debate with you or listen to you try to insult my team, either, so what's your point? I can't correct anything about the team regardless.

>f0....so what's your problem with SIU, they seem to be doing >pretty good? What're you talking about? That's what I just said. They can score 50 points and routinely win because of their defense.

ANY team that scores 50 points with 22 turnovers probably won't win a game, unless it's a team like SIU that can barely score and still win. I don't see what's confusing about this, or worthy of an argument. It "beat" MSU because MSU played horribly. I was there, I watched the game. It was the worst I've ever seen them play. To me, that is a good thing since it still came down to a last 0.1 second call (even if it really was past the clock, the refs made the right call with what they had within the rules). On another note, you guys' fans are the most quiet people I've ever seen at a sporting event.

The complaining about the whole MoSt - SLU thing has been gone for 2 days now even at Letsgobears, so I don't really know why BBCountry is still here. From another MSU fan, I may have opinions on having a cursed basketball team, but I will still apologize to you guys about this numbnuts.