Billsboys Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I was curious to find out from people on this board if they thought that men's soccer is in trouble. It seems like there are some grumblings that the program is on the downward turn. Bob Warming has been gone for 4 years now and Dan and Mike have all of their players on board. The team had a really disapointing year last year and it seems like the usuall recruiting top players has been a little slow lately. Is Dan in trouble as the coach? I know for a fact Doug Woolard did not want to hire him be he relented under pressure from boosters and Bob Warmings loyalty and recomendation. Bob was a great coach and he and Dan had a great relationship. Now there seems to be a sentiment that Sorber should be the man because fo his obvious ties. Should we think that the soccer program is no longer in contention for a national championship? I hope not. I do like bball and other sports but men's soccer has been the crown jewel in the department for awhile. I am interested to hear some thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Well, I could answer your first sentence/question: no....and be done with my post. It would be the easiest. But I will oblige a little. My short answer is Are you kidding? Vedad Ibisevic is one of the greatest recruits in SLU history. He played one season, and is playing professionally in Europe as a teenageer. Good for him. Dipsy Selouwane and Jackie Jewsbury are playing in MLS. Brad Davis is playing in MLS, and left SLU after two years to go pro. Brian Grazier and John DiRaimondo came from the US youth national team training center in Bradenton FL. Tim Ward played exactly one season at SLU as a true Frosh and has started EVERY game for the NY/NJ Metrostars in MLS, and is currently in the Netherlands with former Billiken Will John another another US under 21 player trying to win the World Championships for your United States of America. Will played two years at SLU. SLU has reached the quarterfinals of the NCAA's twice under Donigan, that would be top 8 in the country for those playing the home version. Both times SLU lost a close road game that could have gone either way...when in reality they should have had a better seed and played at home. No offense to Bob Warming...but what exactly did he accomplish at SLU??? Sure he is a good coach, has done wonders at Crieghton....but he didn't match Joey Clarke's success at SLU. ...and Joey Clarke did it with MUCH less in terms of resources. Mom and pop to say the least, NO full time assistant coach, etc... Now, I mention the above so you can follow the pattern. Soccer is no different than other college sports these days...kids can go pro after one or two seasons. SLU has obviously been bitten by this. Brad Davis was the first to go, and he was an exceptional player in college, and is a top tier MLS pro player. Soccer is good everywhere. period. Long gone are the OLD days where a bunch of St. Louisans would stay home and lace em up and crush people. REALISTIC expectations are making the NCAA tourney most years, and winning a couple of games in it. It is very difficult in any sport to win titles and go to final fours etc...SLU just missed the final four twice under Donigan. Warming never made it....Clarke was the last to do it, and did it multiple times in the 90's. A top 20 program IS success with a once in a while shot at a national title. That is where SLU is. Those are realistic expectations. There is a youth kid from Chicago for example training in Manchester United's system. Kids are going overseas at younger and younger ages to train. Project 40 for MLS takes kids too. It is tough enough to recruit against the big college names. Why wouldn't a kid want to attend an IU, or any of the other soccer powers, just as much as SLU? It is tougher than ever to recruit, and SLU still gets good players. Why is it that Scott Gallagher and Busch won national titles in past 1-2 years for 17's and 18's....and not ONE kid is on the US team for those ages? It is THAT competitive out there. St. Louis only gets a few DIFFERENCE making kids each year like other metro areas. STL area does have more depth than many areas, which produce nice solid role players. Chaminade had a nice recent run in soccer a few years ago...and plenty went to SLU, they are solid role players, nothing more. They aren't difference makers. You recruit a handful of kids each year and they all need to be difference makers to try to win a national title. And this doesn't even take into consideration many kids who want to go away to school. I will never fault a kid for wanting to get a life experience elsewhere...the taylor twellman's, Pat Noonan's, Chris Klein's, etc...who are elite local players that chose to go elsewhere. So far Donigan has gotten the "ink" kids...some have panned out more than others...injuries, leaving early etc...frankly, SLU has one down year and too many people like you aren't seeing the bigger picture. SLU actually has a couple of elite recruits for this upcoming season on top of the returning talent. More specificly to last season...they learned last minute that the national Freshman of the year and best finisher nationally was leaving for Europe just before the start of the season to go pro. SLU went from the number one ranked team in America...to rattled as to pick up the pieces. Ibisevic created so much attention that Will John had tons of space and time to due damage. SLU had a serious problem in the creative midfield, and finishing. It WILL also be an early season question this year. John DiRaimondo will play up top this year, and hopefully he will finish. Also...the year before last, SLU won the early season tough close games against national powers...Clemson, UVA, etc...before playing the unispiring league schedule, but solid teams. This past season, SLU outplayed SMU at home, and frankly looked terrific, but lost 1-0. This happened too often last season. SLU needs to get wins and ties against top level teams early in the season. SLU's highly decorated keeper was injured last season...he just signed with KC of MLS. So, the answer to the question of what is wrong with SLU soccer? I would say not much. Now, if SLU misses two or three NCAA's in a row, etc..(which won't happen by the way)...I would be more concerned. If the recruiting level has dropped a ton, I would be concerned. If SLU wasn't competitive in big games I would be concerned. This hasn't happened yet. And I don't anticipate it to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsboys Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 I just wanted some thoughts on the program. I hope we continue to dominate just a little worried. By the way, all those great players you mentioned most of those kids were under Bob's recruiting tenure. Brad D, Dipsy, and a couple others. I hope we continue to dominate but I don't know how the team will responed after a down year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Actually no..."most" were not. Some were sure. and Donigan recruited some of the mentioned as an assistant. I have no special affinity for Donigan...but I am at a huge loss to understand your affinity for Bob Warming in comparison? If you want I can post Warming's post season record at SLU. The facts are, both Joey Clarke and Danny Donigan have had greater post season success than Warming. I have nothing against Warming...but I am all about making sure facts are straight, and those are facts. As I posted and perhaps you missed, SLU outplayed some of the best teams in the country last year at times...they have also recruited just fine under Donigan so far. SLU will NEVER again "Dominate" college soccer. They haven't "dominated" in several decades. They can however be a top 20 team on a consistent basis, and on occasion be a little better than that, and take a shot at a title some years. The closest thing to college soccer domination is Indiana's run the past 10 plus years. Not really understanding the "panic button." For one, the new league STINKS...which will hurt strength of schedule...but SLU will again as usual play a VERY strong national non conference schedule...so it will come down to a half dozen games...against IU, ND, Duke, SMU etc...and SLU needs to turn the losses into draws...and sprinkle in some wins against those teams. The overall record will be very strong based on the conference. But what matters most are those big games, against big name teams. ...even if one of the big names has a down year...it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 In fairness to Bob Warming...he did do well at SLU and is a very good coach. And had great post season success his first year.....but SLU did slip in post season his next three. So far, I would say the post season results have been pretty comparable for Warming and Donigan. Sure Warming had the run to the four in his first year...but he had early exits too. Donigan was there with him. ....wanted to make sure my posts were not misunderstood...especially regarding Warming. As I said, if SLU misses the NCAA tourney the next two years...you can replace Donigan, and I would be fine with that. But expectations need to be realistic. SLU really is just two players away from competing for a title. And no I don't think they got them...but they will be ranked by the end of the year if not earlier, and they will make the NCAA's this year. I will go ahead on record for that. SLU again lost a lot....losing your best players after one to two years...year after year, takes its toll a little bit. They will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Dipsy was a Donigan recruit. I look forward to this soccer season. It will be fun, exciting, and very competitive. I agree with courtside, it doesn't make sense to even hint at a soccer coaching change at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsboys Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 >Dipsy was a Donigan recruit. > >I look forward to this soccer season. It will be fun, >exciting, and very competitive. I agree with courtside, it >doesn't make sense to even hint at a soccer coaching change >at present. Gister, Sorry but Bob locked up Dipsy right before he left. I think Dan just finished up the paperwork. Believe it or not I think Dan is the right coach for the situation, i was just commenting on some grumblings I heard from some soccer people in the area that would prefer Sorber to take over. I am a Dan fan all the way. I just would like to see some on field success with his kids. Dan did great with Bob's holdovers. I am worried that a weak A10 can hurt the team in the long run and ruin our chances at a final four. I personally don't see the talent for a top 10 team this year. I hope the fan base is not starting to accept top 20 and we are ok. I think we are better than that and hopefully we can get to that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Did I miss Bob Warming's national title at SLU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUBALLS Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Warming is held in high regard because he took a team that went 5-10 in 1996(first losing season for SLU in 36 years) to the Final Four the next year. He came in with a lot of hype due to what he had done at Creighton and almost took SLU to the promise-land in his first year. Regarding Donigan v. Sorber: I think the obvious reason there are St. Louis folk who want Sorber to take over the reigns of the program is simply because he is one of the top St. Louis products ever. But I agree with Courtside: Donigan had one of the top recruiting classes in the nation fall apart on him within two years...V left, Will left, Peplinski left, and Brian G playing at less than 100%. And then we get another stellar kid in Ward and he bolts. Plus Cooper McKee left last year too. I'm sorry Coop may have been just role player to some , but man was he ever the role player. And that role was the "never say die and follow me" attitude this team seemed to lack last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I understand the difference in Clarke's last year and Warming's first. But don't the last three years for Warming count? He made it one more game exactly than Donigan, and only had that kind of success once. He then left chose to leave after 4 years. Warming also had Donigan on staff, while Joey Clarke didn't ahve a paid full time assistant. Perhaps someone should come in this season and make a great run this year, and who cares about the next three? Clarke made the final four multiple times. After a long tenure at SLU, he was shown the door because of SLU's first losing season. If SLU had gotten past Maryland and Stanford in different years perhaps reverance would be similar. Perhaps they could all wear the name "Warming" on their backs this fall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUBALLS Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I'm not defending Warming, just stating the facts of the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 My comment was more in reference to the original poster, and the above banter. Bob Warming has been no more successful at SLU than Joey Clarke and Danny Donigan and those are the facts. I do find it difficult to believe there is some big or vocal group that loves Warming. Perhaps I am missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I find it hard to believe also. I think I remember that a lot of people were upset when he was hired because he was the first "outsider", non-St. Louisan, to be named coach. I think he won a lot of people over, but it took awhile for him to be accepted. By the way, on the recruitment of Dipsy, I stand by my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUBALLS Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Just thought it was cool to see these bio's on Vedad: http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/Players/Player=95770/ http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/fo/profiles/21002.html Looks like he scored 4 goals in 12 games for Dijon (?). He was loaned to them n January from PSG and will play with Dijon for teh 2005-2006 season. Translated news: " Author of 4 goals since his arrival in Dijon last January, Vedad Ibisevic will be still lent to the DFCO in 2005-2006. The bosniaque attacker had left the PSG last winter after six months not very encouraging, but it then proved reliable Leagues 2 and will still have the occasion of them to make tremble the unfavourable nets the next year. And why not help the club dijonnais to go up in L1? (By Cédric Chapuis)" http://www.dfco.fr/effectifs.php?team=1&idj=69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Don't underestimate the major impact of losing Vedad, particularly in terms of timing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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