MUTGR

I'll take that as a compliment from someone with a fine jesuit education such as yourself. As for the rest of the big 12, I say the hell with them. I don't like them, I don't root for them, I say a pox on all their houses. Am I bitter? Yes, that's what this Missouri team has done to me. Maybe I'm the one with the psychosis. I'm actually looking forward to baseball. Now that's strange.

Let's try to stay on topic. We were discussing Roy's imaginary conversations with those ubiquitous big 12 fans.

At this point, you're simply making things up.

Actually, based on average RPI before the tournament, the big 12 was the 4th best conference behind the ACC, SEC and the Big East.

Strange psychosis you have. But hey, if it works for you, go with it.

Ouch! I think tuition is about double what it was when I started, and that wasn't that long ago. I remember reading somewhere when I was still a student that they were raising SLU's tuition to bring it more in line with Wash U. That really irked me at the time. Anyway, good luck.

I graduated from SLU's law school a few years ago, and I agree that they were very generous with the partial academic scholarship I received, especially considering my inferior undergraduate education from the University of Missouri. My only complaint was they increased my scholarship each year much less than they increased tuition. It gives me chills to look ahead 13 years to when my oldest will begin college.

I don't think it's accurate to say he bought Missouri, or even the University of Missouri. I think you can say he bought the basketball program, and maybe even the entire athletic department.

Just get Tony Novelli to name it after one of his kids. He has a daughter, I believe, but I don't know what her name is. He's probably your biggest money guy.

I don't know what it says, nor do I really care. You realize that Bill didn't attend MU either, don't you?

I heard she's 22 and either just graduated or still is a student at USC.

to end this miserable season. No NCAA bid, 3 losses to KU, loss to Illinois, then top it off by being beat by SLU 45 to 40 in St. Louis. At this point, I say why not? How can we be any more embarrassed than we already are?

Let me explain something to you Schasz. Not all MU fans embrace the antlers or their antics.

He has kind of a blinding grasp of the obvious. 15 wins is not enough for MU to get in. Thanks for the newsflash Gordo. Good work.

Well, I think if you followed Norm's teams at all, you knew they usually played pretty good defense. That is obviously no longer the case.

Oh my god, MU versus SLU in St. Charles? Have our respective programs fallen that far? I hope not.

nm.

I don't expect to win any fans for Norm Stewart on this board, but I think a few facts will help some of you understand why some of us MU fans think so highly of Norm. When Norm Stewart took over in 1967, he replaced Bob Vanatta, whose MU teams were a combined 42-80 in the previous five seasons. MU was a fine football school (believe it or not), but was nothing as a basketball school at that time. In his 32 years at MU, Norm went 634-333 for a winning percentage of 65%. This is not counting his 6 seasons at Northern Iowa. During this time at MU, Stewart won 8 big eight conference titles and 6 conference tournament titles. His lack of relative success in the tournament is well documented, but he did make the elite eight twice and as well as the sweet 16. Did he make Missouri a national power? No. I have heard Stewart say as much himself. Did he make MU a good regional power for many years - you bet he did. He placed MU on the map. Frankly, if it wasn't for Norm, a young hotshot like Quin Snyder never would have even considered the job. Did Norm decline his last few years? Yes. He probably should have stepped down a few years before he did, but he did have MU in the NCAA tournament his last year and I think they finished 2d in the big 12 that year. So he left things in pretty decent shape for his successor. Norm also landed us on probation one year. While I am not proud of that, if you read the NCAA's reports, as I have done, you essentially had a bunch of minor violations that added up to a lack of institutional control. It is really not accurate to portray his progam as being under a dark cloud for years. That might be your impression or perception, but it's really not supported by the facts. Finally, Norm was a Missouri guy. He was a star athlete at MU in basketball and baseball, and to this day he still bleeds black and gold. Loyalty still means something in certain parts of the country, and some parts of Missouri are fortunately still one of them. For a SLU fan wanting to know why some of us MU fans (it's certainly not all) think so highly of Norm, compare him to Charlie Spoonhour. Some SLU Fans (not B-Roy) still deify Charlie. Charlie was there what, 9 years? He certainly had a good run, but he didn't set the world on fire either. Of course, you will say that's apples and oranges because of what he had to work with. On the other hand, Norm didn't follow a Rich Grawer, who did a lot of the heavy lifting of building a program back to respectability, like Spoon had the opportunity to do. While the big 8 in those days was more of a football conference, Norm still had to compete against the likes of Iba at OSU, KU (always a basketball school) and KSU. And if Ekker(sp?), Grawer or Spoon won 8 conference titles and 6 conference championship banners (regardless of which conference) in your gym, you'd rightfully think pretty highly of that person as well. I don't want Norm to come back, but when I look back at his tenure, I'm satisfied he did a very good job for a very long time.

Most tiger fans I converse with think Snyder is a mixed bag. His record is mixed because you can pull out some aspects of his tenure and say its been positvie, including: (1) graduates players; (2) has made ncaa every year and may make it this year; (3) clearly recruits on a national level; (4) seems to get his teams to peak around tournament time; (5) has a very good overall winning percentage. You can look at the bad things and conclude he's an overrated coach who skirts rules: (1) all too frequent NCAA issues and now an investigation: (2) poor record against top 25 teams; (3) inability to break into upper echelon of big 12; (4) teams look clueless much of the year as they plummet out of the polls; (5) a sullied reputation. Indeed, people forget that the year he made the elite eight and starting getting this reputation as a "tournament coach", the Tigers damn near didn't make the NCAA. This year was shaping up as the most dissappointing season in the last 25 years of MU basketball, if not ever. I'm happy that the team seems to have righted themselves and I hope they make the NCAA tournament, but that alone doesn't absolve the disaster that was much of this season. Most tiger fans I know are also embarrassed by the scrutiny the program has received. I truly hope that reports are correct and there are no major violations forthcoming. If that is the case, then Snyder no doubt will keep his job but I sincerely hope that Alden places him on a zero tolerance policy going forward. Further, he needs to tighten up his coaching somehow. I think he should hire an experienced assistant. There are rumors that Harvey or Odom will take a fall--so there may be an opportunity for a change. If the NCAA finds major violations, then Snyder should be fired.

I think you hit it on the head: he's lazy. I got that same impression when he did radio regularly, or when he occasionaly fills in on radio today. He just rolls in completely unprepared and trys to be witty. That's why I enjoy Frank Cusamano so much. Some MU fans think Frank is a Billiken cheerleader. He's pro-billiken for obvious reasons, but I never get the sense it's affected Frank's objectivity towards other teams, such as MU. I think the guy is a pro, and is always prepared. I think Gordon basically writes the same way he did or does radio--just rolls in unprepared and shoots from the hip. I also agree that he tries to pander to certain fan groups to show he's not biased. He also takes absurd positions to show he's progressive, such as his bizarre defense of Tony Banks several years back. Oh well, in the end it justs means that I spend less time reading the sports page almost every day.

Well, I think we found at least one thing we can all agree on. Even though he is an MU grad and former antler, I guarantee you most MU fans, including this one, can't stand the guy either. The post's sports page has some serious dead weight, and Gordo tops the list. I guess in a 1 paper town, it's kind of like a bad teacher with lifetime tenure--you have a job for life.

As a Missouri fan, I'm willing to live with whatever the NCAA determines, be it severe probation or a slap on the wrist--I frankly have no idea what it will be and I've heard rumors both ways--but they are just rumors. You, on the other hand, have already prejudged the situation largely on your assumption of what you think happened and your general hatred toward MU. If, after months of investigating the situation, the NCAA determines that MU was guilty of major penalties and/or lack of institutional control, I'm sure the penalty will be severe. If they determine violations, if any, were minor, I will accept that as well and move on. I would suggest that you should accept the NCAA findings as well, whatever they ultimately will be. After all, the NCAA is the body charged with making and enforcing their own rules. If you think they have some predisposition to favor MU, you're wrong.

Oh, another convert to the Walmart is taking over the world crowd.

Broy has this guilty until proven innocent, and if your Missouri, you can't be proven innocent thing going.

That's typical Broy speak. He basically makes up his own facts and then repeats them over and over. The last I heard on the subject, MU was suppossedly cleared of academic problems. Now he says they've admitted to them. Strange.