courtside

If the season ended today...and obviously it doesn't, Texas would get in...and not simply because of Durant, they would get in regardless of Durant with their current resume if season ended today. 6-3 in the league is good shape for them. Butler would also get in...even a team like 4-7 league Washington finishes with 6 of 8 at home in conference...and raod game at Pitt...so even they could get to .500 in pac 10 and get in....wouldn't get in right now...but aren't finished yet.

>I said he wouldn't get drafted this year. Making the league >etc...and getting drafted are two very different things...as >are getting drafted in 1st or 2nd round....3 different >things. > >I'm 99.99% sure Tommie will be back next year, however CJ >Miles did get drafted in 2005 and I dare say that he doesn't >have the overall offensive skills of Tommie nor the >defensive prowess. In addition what outstanding skill set >did 6'3 Daniel Ewing bring to the 2005 draft. > >Now...if I were to elaborate which I din't think I needed to >do...because I think most people would agree with that... > >...he needs to work hard on his handle. He doesn't yet have >a great handle. He just about over his turnover mark from >last year already...SLU sure could have used that handle in >all those turnover loss games this year. > >So now he is to be blamed for all the losses. Tommie in fact >does have great handles, what he lacks is great focus. You >also have to factor in the talent level of his teammates. >Good teams know that if you take away Tommie and Kevin, you >stand a good chance of beating SLU. Guess who has been >missing this year due to injuries? That's right Kevin Lisch, >so where do you think that defensive pressure funnels to, >Danny Brown? It's directed at Tommie so therefore the >turnovers will increase as he is the primary ballhandler. > >...His 3 point accuracy is way up which is good...not a lot >of attempts but the accuracy is there....what happens when >the attempts go up? what happens in tougher games? How did >he do vs Texas A&M and UNC.....the actual tough games. And >not v weak league play. > >He was the only player for SLU in double figures vs Texas >A&M despite being fouled on almost every drive. SLU was >severely outmanned vs A&M and UNC. You can't expect him to >go out and give you 30 points vs those teams as they tend to >come at you in waves. Put him on equal footing vs those >players and I'll bet you will see the type of player he is. > > >He is doing well....and progressing fine...I do't see why >people can't just leave him alone and let him play. He >isn't going anywhere just yet. He isn't a two year player. >Look at all the high quality two year players out there that >do it against better competition. > >Back to CJ Miles, high school kids were drafted all the time >despite playing only against high school competition. I >don't care how down the A-10 is purported to be, I'm willing >to believe that most A-10 teams will provide better >competition than your typical high school schedule. Teams >draft on needs and potential. Tommie is a 6'5 guard who can >defend and rebound. Pat Calathes was coming off consecutive >scoring highs when St Joe's faced SLU. He struggled vs >Tommie and SLU, same thing for Charlotte's DeAngelo >Alexander. > >One updated draft spot has him as 41st best Soph in the >country. Not player, or draft prospect...Soph. Now people >can disagree with that ...etc...and that is fine...but it >hopefully will give people some perspective as to where some >others see him... > >From what you know of Tommie you should have discounted that >site yourself. > > > >Increase those attempts from FT line and from 3 and keep >those percentages...continue to take over games against >these lesser opponents. Play within the team....gotta >increase that handle....and improve that defense. > >You can't make free throws if you don't get the benefit ot >the fouls being called. Play within the team, I qoute Coach >Soderberg, "get him the ball and get out of the way". If >anything he probably should freelance more. The handles are >fine. At 6'5 he has guarded guys from 6'10 to 6'1 and has >more than held his own. He probably will never be as stout >of a defender as Kevin Lisch is on the ball, however Lisch >has a lower center of gravity. > >He isn't ready...NBA people >think so too...and so does everyone else not on a SLU >message board. > >So this is why teams like the Spurs were contacting the >staff at SLU prior to the start of this season. I'm pretty >sure they have better things to do other than perform >cursory background checks on college players who have no >chance of being drafted. Again 99.99% sure Liddell will be >back, however lets not pretend he isn't on the NBA radar. > >I was hoping to stay quiet however, I can verify that >everything that Kahok mentioned is the truth. People are >making their professional interest in Tommie very clear. >Rest assured everyone close to Tommie are very level-headed >and I in particular know the cautionary tale of Thomas >Gardner. Reading comprehension is a skill...one that is abysmal on this board...when did a blame SLU's losses on Liddell??? Saying SLU is in desperate need of a point guard is true...they don't have one...when team's pressure SLU, SLU turns it over...game after game...if TL was such a great ball handler...(for 94 feet)...this should have been of some help to SLU. No one is saying he doesn't create plays for himself and with more aggression comes more possiblity for turnovers. However there are other players out there who can do both. To say Lidell's turnovers are the sole reeason of lack of focus....well one I obviously don't agree and two...that is a rather alarming lack of focus. Now it's the officials fault he isn't getting FT more attempts...or the coach's fault etc...did the dog eat his homework too? When I entered this thread it was to say imo he is not going to get drafted this year, period. That stays the same. You sat on a fence. Do you think he will get drafted this year in either round? Yes or no....that is the question...if yes...it is same as my thoughts or others. Being on somebody's radar...etc...isn't the issue here...this is about getting drafted this season There are many reasons why players get drafted or don't...not all based on ability either. So I base my opinion on two things, one I don't think those 32 or so teams will draft him this year...and two, I wouldn't this year either. He's doing well...and improving all the time...and we'll se him again next year, and that is great.

>Assuming you're just a weekend warrior like the rest of us, >I'd have to disagree that you guys have equal chances of >making the League this year. I wholeheartedly agree that he >isn't ready yet and a 1st round draft pick is a pipe >dream...but crazier things have happened. Every year I am >amazed by some of the people who get drafted and where they >go. Tommie could be one of those people...however long a >shot it is. It would be a very ill advised decision, IMO, to >declare this year. I said he wouldn't get drafted this year. Making the league etc...and getting drafted are two very different things...as are getting drafted in 1st or 2nd round....3 different things. Now...if I were to elaborate which I din't think I needed to do...because I think most people would agree with that... ...he needs to work hard on his handle. He doesn't yet have a great handle. He just about over his turnover mark from last year already...SLU sure could have used that handle in all those turnover loss games this year. ...His 3 point accuracy is way up which is good...not a lot of attempts but the accuracy is there....what happens when the attempts go up? what happens in tougher games? How did he do vs Texas A&M and UNC.....the actual tough games. And not v weak league play. He is athletic, improving his shot, still needs to make better decisions and protect the ball better. Should be taking over games all the time v the competition and considering his teammates. ...that's a given. He is doing well....and progressing fine...I do't see ahy people can't just leave him alone and let him play. He isn't going anywhere just yet. He isn't a two year player. Look at all the high quality two year players out there that do it against better competition. One updated draft spot has him as 41st best Soph in the country. Not player, or draft prospect...Soph. Now people can disagree with that ...etc...and that is fine...but it hopefully will give people some perspective as to where some others see him... And no, he doesn't need to play the point at the next level...he can and that is fine...but he can make it at other positions too.... Increase those attempts from FT line and from 3 and keep those percentages...continue to take over games against these lesser opponents. Play within the team....gotta increase that handle....and improve that defense. He's fine. He just has no chacne of getting drafted this year...never said never etc...he isn't ready...NBA people think so too...and so does everyone else not on a SLU message board.

>I guess you are talkinh about grind players like Roland >Gray, Monroe Douglass, and Anthony Bonner. Exactly.

No...people are saying...no check that I will only speak for myself...I am saying TL and I personally have an equal shot of being drafted in the 1st or 2nd rounds of the NBA this year...none. That is what I am saying. People can discuss in a few years, or each year as he goes etc...and re-visit the issue all they want. If the topic is what are his chances after this year to get drafted...they are zero. He is doing well and down the road has a lot of potential to make it if he continues to improve.

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He has about as much chance of getting drafted this year as I do. (Nothing against him, or his improvement.)

> Not getting. I did have a Tshirt with a thumbs up and an >AAAYYY. I graduated HS in '79 so Happy Days was right in my >time. Andy Griffith however, is one of my favorite TV shows >of all time, along with Leave it to Beaver. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. Meant as...Ron Howard was very young when he was Opie...and obviously years later played Richie Cunnigham in Happy Days....hence age difference of Ron Howard...you remembered him more fondly as Opie etc...it wasn't literal...as though those were the exact years you watched the shows.(when he was those two separate ages, meaning you only remembered the older stuff...etc...) Chuck could ball though...better than Richie...Richie was like Ollie in Hoosiers...bench warmer, thrown into fire, did great...but unlike Ollie...in the end missed the big shot later on.

That's a good point Skip...how you finish is also very important. NCAA looks hard at last 10 games, and at conference tourney. SLU could win conference and lay and egg in conference tourney...and that wouldn't be good. If anything try to put as much if any pressure on others to take a look at SLU.

> I like Ritchie ... but I've always prefered him as Opie. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. That's because you're getting old.;-)

So far, all season, it has been A10 regular season champ and conf tourney champ with legit shots. At times, Xavier and UMass have been given some consideration but that has faded. I think it will be two teams. SLU needs to win the league or league tourney to feel decent.

Not comparing SLU to Duke obviously.

How about at least 1? You can't post with racial bias for a race different form your own? You began repeatedly with your Chaminade threads..and instead of stating your bias for them, attempted to suggest they were much better than they are and much better than similar level teams. You changed your posts to say...oh I was only talking about individual players...etc...(We can go back to them if you like)...but before and after only posted regarding teams. ...contradicting your post that said it was only about individual players. You quickly retreated from Chaminade posts when they lost 3 of 4 games to the same teams you said they were much better than...and turned it into a list of all the schools you thought were the top area schools. They all have one thing in common. It in fact was posting racial bias, and I don't care if you lok like Richie Cunningham from Happy Days. You discounted actual results, head to head play, common team play. etc...you posted with bias on two different topics. All I did was say you had a bias, which you did and do. All I also ever said was that local STL side HS ball was a parity party and many teams have beaten one another over and over all year. And that is true.

Today JJ Redick will have his jersey retired at Duke, and become the 13th Dukie all-time to have the honor. Just this past week, Sheldon Williams became the 12th.

> See, I feel the opposite on Mac. I would not vote for him. >Steroids were illegal. I don't care what everyone did in the >past, and I don't want to reconcile my vote with that. If >it's my vote ... it's my vote, using my criteria. Hopefully >I would be unbiased enough to use the same criteria for all. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. the reason why I would vote for him...is that I cannot make the decision or assumption that he did use. Did he blow up physically? yes...is there heresay evidence? yes...did he have the side effects of using? yes... however...I don't believe in assumptions, even if it seems clear to me or everyone else. I blame baseball etc...and he took advantage of the rules and system. ...but I would have to vote for him. You are assuming he used steroids. If this were in a court of law and someone's life hangs in the balance...I want more than the assumption someone killed someone else...etc...obviously not the same thing...etc...but that is the way of thinking. Sure do a lot of things make him look bad...yep. But 1) there was no steroid testing done at the time. 2) there was no proof he used them. Are you going to size up every pitcher and hitter in the game and look at them and say...he used, he didn't ...etc...you can't.

> I agree with your entire post ... and after careful >individual attention to Willie's case ... He is on the wall > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. I am a big fan of Willie, and would at the very least like to see him honored somewhere at Busch. He exemplifies big talent, character, etc...all the things you want and admire and was adored by many.

> Like the people who decide the current Hall of Fame in >baseball. Just don't make it journalists. They aren't >usually any more knowledgable than many fans ... they just >think they are. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. I agree with that too. I don't necessarily have the best answer either. It is funny, when I go on road trips to other big league baseball parks...and a stanger or someone strikes up conversation about baseball or Cardinals etc...and inevitably everyone thinks that Ozzie Smith was the most popular Cardinal of that era...and every time I say no I think it was someone else....and they try to guess whom I am think of....and when I tell them Willie, they don't believe it...but I will never believe Ozzie was more popular than Willie in STL. As for journalists...the H.O.F. vote for McGwire told me a lot. I looked for specific journalists that I admire...those few...to see their votes, and some really disappointed me. You cannot look the other way as a journalist when players use performance enhancing drugs....collect money from books on the players success....then bash them and not vote for them years later. When McGwire played, there was ZERO steroid testing. And even today, zero HGH testing. Baseball has a long history of players using an edge for success...right or wrong...and has cheaters, horrible character guys, racists..etc..in the H.O.F. I am in no way a big McGwire guy at all...but if one voted fairly, he should be voted in based on their criteria. You can't just guess things, assume things etc...as a journalist. But many have their grudges etc...

The difference between say Willie and a college player...is that in the pros...all you care about is on field success(and don't get into trouble)...character, schoolwork etc...non-issues, they are paid professionals. So, with that, I think there needs to be a standard, because immediately I think of Ted Simmons and Keith Hernandez...etc...type players who are in Willie's ability range...not quite H.O.F. players but close...I'd have to think about it more...and try to think of a better solution, suggestion..etc.. And Diddy..the only reason why I am posting this part is so that people understand that joining a conference, like anything else is about building long term relationships...and I believe Marquette had those a long long time with Big East and was set to join previously if I am not mistaken...so it wasn't just a flash in the pan of Wade and they join. The value of this....is that SLU needs to work hard on long term conference relationships. As for the debate on that one...take away the school, who cares...isn't the point of college to take a young kid and prepare them to be a man in academics, life, sports etc...and to be highly successful in whatever you do? And if that person does just that, then in return does free pub for your school in endorsement spots, helps create millions in revenue...etc..has the grades and character...not sure what else would qualify more....some would probably be rule sticklers.....instead of having rules and criteria but looking at individual cases. I am in no way comparing the two things...but ...what about the kid in Atlanta who was sentenced to prison for having oral sex with 15 year old, he was 17...it was consenual, initiated by her...caught on video...it's been in the news recently....yes there is a rule...etc...but the rule didn't apply in that case either...and a kid continues to sit in prison. Rules are very very important, but every case, and every thing deserves individual attention....imo...

I am definitely not in favor of fans deciding. Just my opinion. I don't think it should be a popularity contest. I think informed people on a committee should make that decision. Not very fan is objective, unbiased or informed. One could say the same for a committee too...and that is the case sometimes...but I would rather a behind closed doors decision be made. Have definite criteria and debate the ones near the criteria.

> >so he wouldn't make it. > > Should Willie be on the wall at Busch? > > Having the fans put a favorite in every 5 years wouldn't >diminish anything. It would be 4 players in 20 years. > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman > >Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would >have helped club. Wille? I am very fond of Willie. But Cards have established guidelines, of being a H.O.F. player...the difference is...Cards have had quite a few of them, and lots of success. If the Cards were usually not good...it would be a lonely wall out there....etc...I think Willie could be honored in some other way, perhaps outside of the park or wall etc...but then do you also honor...enter other name here...now Willie far and away is the most popular Cardinal since early 80's...by fan reaction. It is interesting. I definitely don't think Willie should be on the wall...but I do think something else should be done for him. Skip, If you saw on Sportscenter last night/this morning etc...Dwyane Wade had his jersey retired yesterday at Marquette...and the debate was...he doesn't have his degree yet, and it is a rule. They made an exception for him because his summers are spent working...World's, Olympics etc...and with his megastardom it would be 20 years or more before he could go back and get those last credits...so they made the first exception to it. Some people apparently didn't like the exception, others were fine with it, and said, hey he was 3.0 student, etc..represents the school well and made so much cash for the school publicity, as well as obvious sports success...etc...does free PR for the school as well. So criteria is debated everywhere.

I feel your frustrations...tough that many years go by without a legit candidate to hang from the rafters. I think the unfortunate solution is to not cave for short term satisfactions...and still hold strong requirements. ...those short term satisfactions are sure getting longer and longer...lol.

Skip, I'd like to see more names as well...but I want the standard to be very high. If and when SLU gets a better program and better players more often, then perhaps a few of those players would compare differently to now. It is not enjoyable that there aren't more...and that is just a frustration over the state of the program and players who ahve passed through....but I definitely think the standard should be very high.

Very funny Steve, that pix is a keeper. Footes...I used the term sucks as sarcasm...I didn't say you said the word...if I did, I would have used it in quotes...as actually quoting you. As for Torch. Torch's problem isn't entirely a Chaminade bias. It is also a racial one. I think it has zero place on the board. DeSmet is just the easy example to be the carrot and bring out Torch's racial bias. Torch may be white, Asian, Brown, purple green etc...don't know don't care...but his postings in this topic have racial bias. To make a list of all the top local high school teams, and 100% were coached by African Americans and 100% were predominantly African American teams...even when these teams have been beaten or blown out by teams of othe descent, or have played a team 3 times and all 3 were two point games...it isn't a matter of a particular team they played....I've said in every single post of mine, that DeSmet, etc...aren't very good this season. That isn't the issue. I merely posted every single time that there was a parity party of 10 plus teams...Torch said no, two schools way above the rest...when it was pointed out Troy, St. Charles West and other non African American teams had beaten those teams....he made a list of all the top teams in his opinion...some not even in the top 5 of small schools....etc...a ridiculous list that basically was made up of 100% of the same racial bias etc... I don't think racial bias has any place here, it's a shame.

Actually Roy, yes you did change several things so many times, it is impossible to keep up...this was covered. Casual typo's are one thing, but basic 6th grade spelling is another. The word is "anonymity." I thought they had text books in Belleville. This is a typcal Roy post, starts inevitably with some sort of name calling to try to agitate someone....this usually happens in grade school, but most of us go on to bigger and better things as Bob Knight once said. Next it usually some form of re-hashing of an old topic....usually Roy aggressively misquoting someone, making up things that fit his present post and repeating it over and over and over again...so that perhaps someone out there will believe it as truth. Next inevitably comes the ....if you don't hate or despise the same things as Roy...and actually deabte on the opposing side of Roy's childlike hatreds, he will make his own conclusions because in Roy's mind it is impossible to exist or co-exist if you do not write dollar signs for the opponent or post juvenile like hatred for the said school. When Roy gets beyond his anger, his hatred, at some point he has to calm down a little...even Roy....and his frustrations come out...and he offers "challenges" as if this is Battle of the Network Stars or a modern day MTV game show. It oozes desperation. His cherry on top is is to say something, make his own conclusion, and then tell the other person what they would or wouldn't say, or do...in sad and even more attempt at not only desperation...but also some sort of self-justification and self satisfaction. And cycle is repeated like a dishwasher. Sometimes this is all done in one post...sometimes it is done in multiple posts in a thread...and sometimes it is done in multiple threads....but it is as consistent as the sun rising in the East.

>This thread has nothing to do with RPI, Big East. Find once where I was the originator in taking this thread off topic. Same as all other threads. You initiated the thread, you then changed what it was about. Not me....and you won't find me doing it in any thread. You can stalk all of my posts all you like...