CGMAN618
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Posts posted by CGMAN618
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3 hours ago, RiseAndGrind said:
It the staff really backed off of THT because ayo told them to, they are going to get owned in chicago
It was more the Mac Irvin Fire camp than Ayo. There was a riff, and BU/Coleman tried to mend the fence but it wasn't happening. The timing of it is bad, but THT never really showed much interest the entire time he was recruited by BU up until his OV ended last weekend. MIF never really thought he would want to commit to play with Ayo because all signs had been pointing to ISU. THT even stated this summer that MSU was him dream offer, so if he truly had his heart set on the Illini, he could have set his OV earlier and committed before Ayo. BU was backed into a corner and had to make the best decision for the programs future. He took the 5* PG that was already committed and had been an Illini lean his entire recruitment. You take that every day of the week. For years the Illini have been getting the leftovers from the CPL and fans have been clamoring to get their best talent. Well, this is the CPL game and if you want the players, you play the game. If we take THT, Ayo likely decommits and we lose any connection with MIF, which is arguably the most powerful AAU program in the Midwest. By keeping Ayo, we strengthen our bond and have much better chance of landing Okoro, Khalil Whitney, Adam Miller & DJ Steward in the next few years who are all close friends with Ayo. I know some fans are mad because of the Simeon connection with THT, but the only players we have gotten from there this millennium are Calvin Brock, Kendrick Nunn, DJ Williams & Jaylon Tate. The last 5* we got from them was Deon Thomas back in '90 so it's not like that pipeline has worked wonders for us. We have gotten just as many MIF players during that time as well, so if Underwood wants to make his bed with them, I'm more than ok with it. If we can get any 2 of the players I mentioned before it will have paid off for us tenfold
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On 10/20/2017 at 4:32 PM, Quality Is Job 1 said:
I question that. He hired an assistant coach at Oklahoma State who was named, but that might not implicate him. Time will tell, I guess.
So far that is the only way he is tied into any of this. He hasn't been implicated in it and I would think if the FBI had Evans phone tapped when he was at S. Carolina, at some point they would have had Underwood on tape too and he would have been charged already. Now, Evans could try to say BU knew or was privy to benefits as well but they would have to find the proof of that. Who knows, this thing is going to take a long time to get all sorted out. Could be a couple years before it's all said and done and every high major coach could be implicated as well. I personally don't think BU will go down in this, except for maybe a suspension or something from the NCAA for lack of institutional control. Honestly, I'm more worried that Orlando Antigua may get caught up in it
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On 10/20/2017 at 2:14 PM, wgstl said:
THT will be at Illinois this weekend. They(fans and writers for UI) think he will commit during his visit. Hasnt as of yet though.
THT finished his visit today. From what I have gathered he really enjoyed it, but I haven't heard of any news about a verbal. As far as the rumors about a beef between him and Ayo, I'm pretty sure those are just rumors. When he left the Mac Irvin Fire, it was my understanding that it was done so his skills could be showcased more and any beef that was taking place was between the adults in the situation. The fact that he still came for an official after Ayo committed tells me he would be willing to play with him. I think he is an Iowa St lean but would love to have him. Kid is an all around player and is going to be one hell of a college player for whoever gets him. Seems like a really good person and has handled his recruitment very well
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I would be willing to bet before it is all said and done, there will be some NCAA officials that go down for this as well
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1 hour ago, brianstl said:
I think I read somewhere last night that congressional hearings are on the way.
Yep. House Energy and Commerce committee wants to be briefed
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39 minutes ago, willie said:
Not true. Bernie Madoff, Ken Lay, the tyco guy, countless rich guys being indighted for security fraud.
He was questioning a statement I made about how the shoe exec. stated that they don't go after head coaches because they made too much money already
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7 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:
People who are already rich don't commit financial crimes?
Never said that, and didn't mean to imply it. Just stating what the shoe exec. said and giving my opinion as to whether BU was involved. I can't imagine the shoe company was paying 2 coaches to do 1 job given what the agent stated and that they have had Evans tapped since before he joined up with BU at OSU. My opinion is if they had dirt on BU already he would have been named by now. That being said, do I think BU is going to be questioned by the FBI, yes. Do I think that 95% of all high major D1 coaches and probably many more than that are gonna be questioned as well, absolutely. I would even bet that Travis Ford gets questioned as well (not implying i think he done anything) this investigation is going to be an ongoing thing for a while and who knows how far it will stretch
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10 hours ago, slufan13 said:
Evans was under Underwood at Oklahoma St wasn't he?
Underwood hired Evans from S. Carolina when he came to OSU. From what I have gathered, they (FBI) were on to Evans and he was wire tapped at SC before he left for OSU. One would think if BU was guilty of anything they would have had that info by now and he would be named in the indictment already. I don't think there is any way that he was involved. The shoe exec. is even on record stating they don't go after head coaches because they make too much money already and won't take the risk.
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4 minutes ago, Coach314 said:
If you knew Tilmon it wouldn't seem strange at all. If you remember he went quiet around the early singing period. He has a lot of people in his ear and i am sure having an East St Louis grad now coaching at Mizzou made them rethink things. When you send your kid off to school you want to make sure they have his best interest in mind. Tilmon has played AAU ball with Porter before as well. Maybe the combination of things as well as the firing of Groce was all it took. I guess we will soon find out
What I'm hearing is daddy all of a sudden wants him to go to Mizwho. Mom wants him to stay at UI. Also, mom is/was part of the holdup with getting the release finished. She supposedly didn't get papers signed right away. I'm not sure the validity of that, not sure what/why a parent would have to sign off on it. Just rumors I have heard
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3 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said:
Dead period is in a few days so dick move by Illinois
Yea, maybe. Guess what though, meeting with a new coach and publicly reaffirming your commitment, then asking out of a LOI a couple days later could be considered a dick move as well. Also, going to visit your "sister" who happens to be a principal at a signed recruits (who you desperately want) school is a dick move as well
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On 4/6/2017 at 8:08 AM, CBFan said:
Thanks for checking in, I think JT could be a difference maker at SLU because of Elliot Welmer's injury. Elliot is SLU's tallest player and showed he could changes shots with his blocking ability and I think JT could play that role. Does Illinois have other bigs like JT?
For Missouri I still believe that coach Martin was the best coach at this time that they could find. Rebuilding starts with players and coach Martin appears to have the ability to recruit good players. I think similar to coach Ford coach Martin has Missouri fans excited about the program again. Also similar to coach Ford is that coach Martin can recruit but suspect in game day coaching. It is possible that coach Martin is getting wiser with age and learning and only time will tell. After one season with coach Ford I saw improvement and those that said he could not coach were proven wrong this season.
No, we are very short on big men. All we have is Finke and Black and they are both really stretch 4s but can play the post also. Kipper Nichols played some 4 this year but he is really best at the 3 spot. So we are in dire need of big men at the moment. Apparently we have reached out to Carlton Bragg and Underwood was in Kansas Saturday to see 2017 F Francesco Badocci.
I will add, I am disappointed to be losing Pickett. Maybe even more than Tilmon. I think he is going to be a great college player and think he is highly underrated. SLU would be wise to try and get him if they have any ships available. It wouldn't surprise me either to see him follow Groce to Akron
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Well, this really doesn't surprise me at all. With the way this whole recruitment has gone it's par for the course. If you would have told me a month ago that we had the option to keep Groce, Tilmon and the rest of the recruits, or trade Groce and Tilmon for Underwood, Orlando Antigua and keep the remaining recruits plus keep Jamal Walker ...... I will take that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Illinois is trying to build a program, Mizzery is trying to buy a top 10 team for a couple years. What they have been doing stinks to high heaven and they seem pretty bold about it. Won't be long before it catches up to them and eventually people will realize that Zo isn't a very good coach. He has gotten his share of 5* talent before and turned that into a total of 2 NCAA appearances in 9 years with 1 S16 run. I don't mind Tilmon asking out of his LOI. He did commit to a different coach, and should be allowed to explore his options. He is a really good player but he is not a program changer. He's not leading anyone to a final 4 next year, or the year after for that matter. I hope he really means he is still considering IL, but will be fine if he goes elsewhere. I said a while back in a different thread that I thought you guys would be better for him than SPUMAC. BTW, someone please tell me what SPUMAC stands for. Lol, I have been dying to know
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3 hours ago, MUTGR said:
Neither. Illinois had him targeted too. They offered him.
They may have talked, but Illinois did NOT offer Martin so quit spreading this false rumor. That was put out by the Martin camp and has been addressed by Josh Whitman on more than one occasion
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7 hours ago, CBFan said:
I was wondering what you thought and figured you would be happy with the choice. They really pulled a rabbit out of the hat getting him. Is it possible that coach Underwood was the top guy on their list? I never read or saw anything that led me to believe that coach Underwood was unhappy at OSU and would leave after a year. I hope SLU learns something from this and takes good care of the coach Ford.
I'm not sure if he was on Whitmans radar or not. From what I have heard, when his contract renegotiation broke down with Holder his agent made contact with JW. JW was not gonna ride this out and get into a bidding war against Indiana or any other school over one of his targets and jumped at the chance to get his coach. Very impressed with what JW has done in his first year as AD for Illini athletics
@WV_Billiken no interviews had taken place before his team played on Friday. Contact had been made between his agent and JW, but the first meeting between the two didn't happen until OSU returned to Stillwater on Saturday and JW flew down there to meet him.
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Well, I can say this illini fan is thrilled with the hire. Im not sure what boards you all frequent but Illinois loyalty is ecstatic with the hire. I must say, completely shocked as this came way out of left field, but thrilled nonetheless. I do think that recruiting is the unknown here, but BU is a brilliant x&o tactician. I think if we keep the class together and hire some good recruiters we should be in great shape. The coaching carousel is a fast moving machine and I feel like Whitman may have been slow played by a couple targets due to the other openings out there and seen his chance to lock up a great coach that wasn't on anyone's radar. Great hire
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7 hours ago, Soderball said:
Being a college coach is a totally different thing from coaching in the NBA. Being a coach in NCAA gives a lot more authority, but requires way more micromanagement and control by the coach over every aspect of the team, all the way down to making road trips to crappy towns to watch a lot of high school ball.
Not surprised that Williams is uninterested in that lifestyle.
Illinois would be very unwise if they aren't trying to contact Tom Crean.
Indiana is just hopeless. They will never be happy until Bob Knight comes out of retirement. Delusional hoosiers.
I agree about Indiana. That is one job that is next to impossible to please their fans. I think Crean is a decent coach and got a raw deal there. That being said, no thanks to Crean. Illinois will not be considering him. The way he was oversigning on scholarships every year and shoving who he didn't want out the door is what damaged recruiting relationships for him. Some of the same relationships that Groce was establishing. It's a big reason we was able to pull Jalen Coleman-Lands away from Indy and was in the running for Kris Wilkes. Whitman is not about to hire someone who is going to destroy those ties we have worked hard at establishing. Creans best bet would be to try to take the Cal or LSU jobs. He is done in Big Ten country
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57 minutes ago, CBFan said:
It is time to call Archie Miller CG Dayton's season is over.
. Guess I better check flight tracker.
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I thought he was out as well. I seen the tweet from Woj last weekend but heard a few days later that no offer had been made to him yet. Then, a couple days ago, I seen a reporter tweet that he had spoken with Monty and was told that he did have interest in the job still so who knows.
This is what I have been pondering: Whitman knew he was going to fire Groce before the season ended. He approaches Jerry Colangelo for help in the search. JC sees an opportunity to help his buddy Monty out and help his alma mater get back to the program it used to be. But JW has his sights set on a proven high major coach. So they agree to leak a story that Illinois is looking to pay high $$$$ but MW turned it down in hopes of garnering major interest from the big fish. Give JW a little bit of time to try and land one of the big boys, if not, then MW is the fallback option instead of settling for a 2nd or 3rd tier candidate. Idk, that's just my opinion trying to read the tea leaves. I will say, I would be thrilled if Monty is our fallback option
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3 hours ago, CBFan said:
Nice summary, of plausible possibilities who do would you like to be the next coach?
I think with the horrible shape of the Missouri program I think they had to over pay any coach and I think coach Martin is the best they could convince. At least coach Martin has their fans excited, see tiger board, and they will see better players in the future. I hope coach Martin does well unless he is competing with SLU.
The Illinois program is in much better shape and seems to have the players that can win immediately.
If Illinois brings in a top coach then I do not seeing much or any flipping of recruits.
This is always a fun time of the college basketball season, March madness and coaching moves.
I agree with you about Mizzou. They had to make an offer they knew nobody else would make him. Given his recruiting ties to the area, it was a smart move on their part. He will get his fair share of recruits for sure.
As for Illinois, yesterday I would have said I thought we had a decent shot at landing Bennett and slim chances of Miller but most likely a Drew/Keatts type hire. The past 8-9 hours have drastically changed that. Keatts is off the board, and this afternoon I was hearing some info that we have been looking at Scott Drew, not Bryce, and that it could be a very real possibility that he is the next coach. Then, in the past hour or so, a couple of "insiders" on Illinois Loyalty have said that it is in fact Monty Williams who will be the next coach and he will be announced early next week. So, who the hell knows now, lol. It truly is March MADNESS!!
I will add that early this afternoon, I seen a tweet that said Jamal Walker told them he spoke with AD Whitman and said that he would be retained as an assistant coach. The implication is that a new coach must be hired if he knows he is being retained. TIFWIW
If in fact a coach is hired and an announcement is coming early next week, my guess would be Monty Williams. Given the Colangelo ties and the fact the 2 names most people have been saying could still be playing into next weekend
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I haven't heard much on the Illini side, at least nothing more than the random rumor that everyone else has heard. Whitman really is keeping this one close to the chest, nothing credible has been leaked at least. It seems we are pressing hard for Tony Bennett and possibly Archie Miller/Kevin Keatts but Bryce Drew may very well be the fallback option.
Indiana certainly made the search even more interesting. I think the whole Martin/Porter/Mizzou deal has been in play since Anderson was let go. I think Martin may have gauged interest with us or vice versa but we were not about to pay that kind of money and he wasn't at the top of our list so he jumped on the deal before he got left standing in the cold. I think Martin is overrated as a coach and Mizzou paid way too much. Once he stays in one place for more than a few years people will see he is just another recruiter that can't coach, then he will start losing the recruits.
That being said, he is a good recruiter and STL is gonna be a battle for recruits between them, you guys, and us. As far as Jamal Walker possibly leaving to join CM, idk, it could happen. But I would think even if he did go there, you guys would have the best chance of landing Tilmon if he wants out. I know he is close with walker, but he had no relationship whatsoever with mizzery or CM. I have a feeling that Walker is going to wait around and see what the new coach has to say, and Whitman is most likely doing everything he can to guarantee the new coach keeps him on staff to keep this class intact.
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1 minute ago, HoosierPal said:
Drew wants to leave the mess in Waco but I have no idea if he is interested in U of I.
The apparent rumor is Bryce Drew, at Vanderbilt, not Scott
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6 minutes ago, cheeseman said:
Virtually all schools use search firms. SLU's use of one is no different. Missouri is using one and I have yet to hear anything about IL but this not at all unusual. One reason a school would use a search firm is that they can talk to people who are currently under contract without getting permission from the person's AD. Also, these firms keep a list of coaches that they know have an interest in maybe leaving where they are currently working for whatever the reason.
Search firms can also land you people like John Groce. See Illinois.....5 years ago. Josh Whitman stated in his press conference he would not be using a search firm for this hire
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Groce is as good as done. Change that number to 99%. Money will not be an issue. We paid something like 5 mil to get rid of Brucey. A couple mil in buyouts is nothing compared to the loss in ticket sales they will see over the next few years of Groce is retained. I would expect them to be offering a new coach somewhere in the 2.5 - 3.5 mil range. Been hearing a lot of rumors about Martin and Monty Williams as the front runners
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2 hours ago, CBFan said:
I stand corrected about the recruiting class would have coach Groce on solid ground. I trust your insight because you are a fan and I did not realize that coach Groce has brought in several good classes with nothing to show for it. I have heard some Illini fans say they were interested in Thad Motta before he went to Ohio State and I do not think Thad is on firm ground at Ohio State, is he a possibility if Ohio State gets rid of him?
I would think he would be a great possibility. He is from Danville, but OSU would be stupid to get rid of him. I know he is in the midst of his worst season there but dude has solid numbers there. 12 yrs, 20+ wins every year, 10+ conf. wins every year except his first. NCAA 9 times, 1st year they were on probation, 4th year they won NIT, then last year. Granted, this is the second straight year that they are looking at missing tourney. I think they would be stupid to let him go over a couple bad seasons, but if they do I'm sure Whitman would put the hard press on him. Although, I don't know how Matta would feel about it considering groce was his lead recruiter at Xavier and his early years at OSU. He played a major role in bringing in the Oden/Conley class. Hey, maybe he could keep Groce on staff and keep our recruiting class intact ??
. Guess I better check flight tracker.
Recruiting - 2018 class
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I agree it looks bad and wish it would have been handled differently. Hopefully BU learns from this mistake in the future. Scholarships get yanked from players regularly and players have been steered to certain programs and anyone who thinks this hasn't been the commonplace in college hoops for the past few decades is just being naive. If Underwood is a top 10 coach as you said (and I believe as well), then winning will change everything and in a couple years, nobody outside of Illini fans and the parties involved will remember