FromGreeceWithLove

Pistol, any chance you are..... &l;edit&r;? &l;Moderator's note: the insinuation was inappropriate.&r;

Yes...but my confidence was never in TKBilliken, it was in his source, who I happen to know and who has information that I would not post on the board do to what I would call almost confidential to the program. I knew what TK was doing and I never took his stance, I just backed him when others ripped his source. Also, I never hedged my bets. I said all along I thought he was going to return, but I knew that it wasn't as sure of a thing as you all believed, basing it on interviews given by Vouyoukas on StL tv and radio stations.

We are not one in the same, I can assure you that. TKBilliken and I are friends, but our attentions on this board are very different. TK was using the board as a way to stir things up, whereas I enjoy reading what people have to write on the Billikens and also giving my personal thoughts.

Pistol hardly defended TK at all. I defended him, but more because I knew who his source was and knowing TK's intentions to stir things up.

Thats fine, I am just saying it is obvious you do not pay attention to the NBA draft if you do not believe that guys declare for the draft who have little to no chance of being drafted. As I have said, TK was trying to mix things up by making his claim, which was going out on a limb based on credible information. If you think Ian was in no way entertaining the thought of going pro, then good for you, but that is extremely unrealistic.

I also fail to see how I was dead wrong. I never said Ian was going to go pro, I merely wrote that his information was coming from a very credible source. But I am happy you knew all along Ian was good as gold to be returning to SLU. I say we pool our money and buy SShoe a cookie for being so smart.

There are plenty of kids who have gone pro with eligibilty remaining who were never drafted or signed as a free-agent, so your first point is not always true. I was not speaking for TK when I responded to your post, I was just amused that you could say you were not at all worried seeing as it made no sense for him ever to do so. One could provide a long list of guys who went pro over the past 5 years who it made absolutely no sense for them to have gone pro. There is always cause for worry when a kid puts his name in the draft.

I am glad that you were never at all worried that a 21 year old kid would choose to go to the NBA and all of its wealth and glamour and turn down the chance to improve has game in college while getting an education. Every year there are a good number of players who receive some bad advice and see a chance to play in the League and they take it, ending up drafted late and not making the team or not drafted at all. We are dealing with a college kid here, so to say "it never made sense for Ian to leave" does not really apply to this situation.

Roy, that has been what I have been trying to get across. TK's information was of value to me having talked to him and realizing that it was not the guarantee of Ian going pro that he had posted, he was mixing things up on the board while having some information from a credible source.

I think you make valid points and I no longer see it necessary to defend TKBilliken. As I noted in another post, TKBilliken heard some things that gave him the impression that Ian was more serious about the possibility of going pro than the posters on this board thought, so he decided to take a shot and make the prediction that Ian going pro was a lock. He was trying to stir some stuff up with some credible information. Turns out he was wrong and now looks like a jackass. TK is no longer a student at SLU, but to say he is not a SLU basketball fan is as far from the truth as you could be. From now on I will let TK talk for himself and answer to you all.

Not true at all, as I said before TK never heard that Ian was going to remain in the draft, he went out a limb with that after hearing some things. It was obvious to TK that Ian was more serious about making the jump than anyone had thought, so he thought he would go out a limb seeing as there was a good chance and if he was right he could laugh at all of you. The source is excellent and as I said I would not post the things that I hear from him because most of what he knows is inside information that fans should not be aware of.

Agreed, I see where you are coming from Skip. I have never claimed to be in the know, I know who TKBilliken is and we were recently at a local drinking establishment and we talked Billiken basketball. He let me in on the things he had heard and told me who his source on these things was. I know his source, but I avoid posting the things that I hear from him on the board.

Rich, I ask that you go back and review all of my posts, you will never once see me say that I thought Ian would stay in the draft, I posted I thought he would be returning. I was merely validating TKBilliken's credibility, seeing as I know who his source is. I do stick with the comments that TK made about Ian's relationship with Coach Soderberg and I do believe those to be true, actually change that, I know those to be true. TK went out on a limb by saying he thought Ian would not be returning to SLU and this was based on a read he got in conversations with his source who had been working with Ian up to his workouts with the Raptors and the camp in Orlando. TK's source would be "in the know" on this more than anyone outside of Ian's family. You can choose to believe whatever you want. TK may have handled things a little immaturely, but he did have very credible information. Pdiddy may be a very credible individual, but I doubt he had a source any closer to the situation than TK did.

That is similar to what I had posted a few days ago. Ian was facing a huge career decision and after the Toronto workout Ian may have been thinking the NBA was more of a legitimate choice and he could have been venting to his buddy. I am sure there were days that Ian was convinved in his mind he was going to remain in the draft. I think Ian is without a doubt making the right decision by returning to SLU. I did not want to possibly see him suffer thru the draft and not see his name called, as could be the case with our good friend Thomas Gardner. Ian improved dramatically this past year and if he can continue to improve he will no doubt be a lock to be drafted next year, possibly a 1st round pick. He has stirred some interest from teams in the League and now it is on him to have a big senior season and show those teams he is worth a 1st round pick. Hopefully Ian comes away from this experience knowing what he needs to do make himself an NBA caliber big.

TK's source is one of Ian's best friends, thats his source.

If this turns out to be the case, this is great news for the program. We have a team with the talent to be in the NCAA tournament. We return three players who are legitimate all-conference players. The only question mark will be at the power forward position. I backed TK's credibility having talked to him and his source. I believe the things he said, however he was going out on a limb by making the call that Ian would be staying in the draft, he never heard that Ian had said he was going.

Sounds like Fletcher is a nice player and would be a very good recruit for us. If all else I like that Jamall Walker is helping us expand our recruiting territories. Also, hearing that George Goode is a teammate of his is nice. I saw him at the Nike HoopJamboree and he would look great in a SLU jersey. Its tough to really see the type of player the kids are at those things due to the pick-up type games they play, but he is definitely a high-major athlete.

slubaseball42, I agree with you that if Ian does decide to remain in the draft that it cannot be put solely on his poor relationship with Coach Soderberg. There are a lot of factors that go into making this kind of career decision. Ian may have a chance to be drafted in the 2nd round by the Raptors or someother team or pursue a lucrative offer in Greece, these would all be reasons for him to become a professional basketball player. However, I do not think you can dismiss or overlook this apparent dislike Ian has for Soderberg. If Ian does not care for the coaches, the system he runs, or the university in general, he would be more likely to pursue other options. If he feels like Soderberg dogged him, he may be basically extending his middle finger to coach by turning pro.

Thanks for calling out my intelligence A_Bomb. Knowing TK and his source, I just find it amusing that none of you give him any credit. You can choose whether or not believe him, but I don't see why you call out my intelligence for defending him when I know he is coming to us with credible information basically from the source himself.

Also, what gives P Diddy more credibility than TKBilliken on this matter when TKBilliken is hearing things from one of Ian's best friends?

I fail to see your point. I never once said that you can't be hard on guys, you just have to know where to draw the line. If a guy is playing uninspired basketball, like Gay did for the majority of the season, than you have to send him a message. I think showing tough-love is a good thing, but it sounds like there is no love between Soderberg and Ian and that may cost us any success we had to look forward to this upcoming season.

I like the fact that we have this mix on the board. Look at the Cardinals, up until the past couple of seasons, there was constant disagreement as to the whether or not Tony LaRussa was doing a good job. The majority of the posters on this board just want to see SLU succeed. My main concern comes from the fact that Soderberg had success in his first two seasons making the NIT with Romar holdovers and since then with "Soderberg" teams we were well below .500 in one season and missed the NIT this past season. I like the direction of the program, with two all-freshman player, and an all-conference center, but I think the criticism of Soderberg is founded. Where is the power forward that we have needed for the past four seasons? I will give credit to Soderberg when I think he has earned it, but I have seen little that makes want to give him a "few more years." As Bernie wrote, nice guys get fired too.

I agree with you completely, you have to know how to manage your players and part of that is knowing how to motivate certain guys. I'm not saying that you should treat your european players like a bunch of girls, but you have to know where to draw the line. I remember watching a Jim Calhoun practice on ESPN and he commented on how he isn't going to get on his star player the same way as he would a walk-on. Its not the coach's responsibility to be a guys best-friend, but he has to know how to affectively get the most out of every player on his team and its not the same for all players.

TKBilliken has relayed to us information that is from an individual very close to the Vouyoukas situation. I can see why you all do not want to believe what he has written, but you are the same people who believe Soderberg is doing such a great job with the program and see everything as just peaches. Well, having talked to TKBilliken I believe him 100% and I can assure you that there has been a lot of internal things we have not heard about. If Vouyoukas does go pro, I would not be getting too comfortable in StL if I were Coach Soderberg. Many of you think TKBilliken is blowing smoke, but I am afraid you should be giving him more credit and realize that this program is not what you all believe it to be.

I agree with the two of you and I think Pistol put the relationship issue in prospective. Ian seems to be an emotional kid, but sometimes you have to work for people you do not like and if Ian decides to remain in the draft because of some issues with the coaching staff he is hurting himself more than anything else. Sure the Billikens would not be as strong next year, but he could easily go undrafted and become another player with eligibility remaining who leaves people scratching their head as to why they went pro and asking what if he would have returned. I talked to TKBilliken and I believe the things he said, however I think a lot of the things TKBilliken relayed may have been said out of frustration and without a lot of true rational thought. Ian is a good kid and I think when it comes down to it he will make the right decision and be dominating the A-10 for one last season.