MUTGR

for some of you Boone County bashers: http://houseandhome.msn.com/Move/BestPlacestoLive2003.aspx

I didn't mean to get you fired up. I just thought it was an interesting take on a recent event that everyone seems to be interested in. Believe me, I have no intention of posting MU related articles on a regular basis, but it seems everyone has some interest in this Clemons' fiasco. I aslo thought it would suprise some on this forum that such a suprisingly candid opinion would be written by someone from Boone County.

I have no idea how Ricky got to Floyd's house, and I agree it's a good question. Even though Alden has officially cut ties with Clemons, I'm afraid we haven't heard the last about his association with MU.

perspective: http://showmenews.com/2003/Jul/20030723Spor005.asp

About one year ago I also got on the NCAA's website and checked out its major infractions database. At least at that time, the reports did go back several decades. I was suprised and somewhat pleased to discover that SLU's basketball team actually made that database twice: once under Ekker and once in the late 50's for recruiting violations. Granted, that's all ancient history, but I did take some satisfaction in seeing that SLU was on that database twice, and Missouri only once--so far.

http://mutigers.ocsn.com/sports/m-baskbl/s.../072203aaa.html

Look, I agree about Quin. I used to try to defend him on this forum, but I can't do that any longer. A year or two ago, Roy was saying Quin was dirty, and I said no way, the airplane thing was just a mistake, blah, blah, blah. As a Missouri fan, I hope we have dodged yet another bullet, but there has been way too many "mistakes." It is very hard for me, as an attorney, to buy Quin's Clintonesque excuses about either not being aware of a rule, or disagreeing with an interpretation of what constitutes a rules violation. After all, the guy has an MBA and a Law degree from Duke, so I presume he can read. Reading between the lines of some of his public comments, I think Alden has tired of these little episodes and is making Quin walk the line. At least I hope that is the case. After all, you only get passes on so many "minor" violations before you get hit with the "lack of institutional" control hammer. Finally, and this is just my speculation, I have to believe Quin learned some of his "techniques" while he was at Duke. I'm sure coach K is a "saint," but I have to believe Quin didn't just start doing this stuff at MU. That's not an excuse, its more of a comment on college basketball--the elite can get away with certain things because they are the elite.

If, for example, Missouri broke the rule 10 times and the other schools broke it from 1 to 5 times, I can see Missouri getting a harsher penalty--but shouldn't the other schools also get some sort of sanction? I would think so.

I agree. If multiple teams violated the exact same rule with the exact same recruit, you don't just punish the team that ended up with the recruit, IMHO.

Someone posted on tigerboard that 6 or 7 other schools had also contacted Conley around the same time Missouri did. Suppossedly, some of these schools were members of college basketballs' elite. I realize that Tigerboard is not a credible source, but if you're interested in conspiracy theories, one is that they aren't going to slap Missouri because they'd have to slap one of the golden programs as well. How about that?

It's been settled in the sense that Conley has been reinstated and will be able to play next year. It's my understanding the NCAA has not determined whether there will be penalties, and if so, what they will be. For us Missouri fans, the hope is the penalties will be slight since Conley was reinstated, but who knows.

I have only read about that performance, but it certainly lives on in Tiger lore.

Cheeseman, I think you are trying to change the argument from "no one" goes back to Columbia when they are done playing for any reason to now comparing the respective benefits of St. Louis versus Columbia. I did not say everyone went back to finish up their undergraduate degree, but many did, including Lynn Hardy, Lee Coward, Nathan Buntin, to name a few that I know of. Others came back for other reasons, like Jon Sundvold who started his own business in columbia when he was done playing basketball, like Grawer going back to coach and get a masters degree, like Jason Sutherland who went back to coach high school in another small town in mid-Missouri. Last I heard, Chievous was driving a ups truck or something, so there are all sorts of reasons, but the fact is players from MU do go back to Columbia, for various reasons, some to stay, some to get a degree and move on, others for various other reasons. I am not trying to argue that Columbia offers more than St. Louis, because it doesn't. I think SLU has a legitimate selling point there. Hell, I live in St. Louis and prefer it to Columbia. But the point is your blanket statement was not factually correct.

I think I am Thicks. Honestly, that is not a final 8 or final 4 type team talent wise, but it was heart wise, and yes, coaching gets a lot of credit. Yes, Booker was developed into an unbelievable player, but he was not highly recruited. In fact, an article from his home town was posted on Tigerboard recently indicating that he was offered only two d1 scholarships, MU and Central Florida. I didn't say that team had no talent, but I will point that team out to anyone who states that Norm never got anything out of the talent he had. It's simply not true.

Norm couldn't get much out of the talent he had? I would submit that his '94 team was one of the best coaching jobs in NCAA history, going undefeatd in big 8 play and making the elite eight with a bunch of kids who were not highly recruited with the exception of Jevon Crudup and a freshmen Kelly Thames, neither of whom were McDonald's All American types.

I was going to stay out of this but you are way off base. You assume these MU kids don't go back to Columbia, but that's not true now and it never has been. Even under Norm, who had a very low graduation rate, kids have been coming back to Columbia for years to get their degrees later or for other reasons. I just read that Willie Smith, a star in the 70's under Norm, just returned to Columbia. So have, at various times, the likes of Marvin McCrary, Jon Sundvold, Lynn Hardy, Derrick Chievous, et al. Most recently Brian Grawer returned as assistant coach. Players have been returning for years either to finish up school or to start a career.

That's an excellent post, Roy. I attended MU as an undergraduate, and frankly at that point in my life focused too much on the other stuff rather than school. I think a good education is there to be had at MU, including getting to know your professors, but you certainly have to work harder at it, especially when you are a freshmen or sophomore and have the big lecture hall type classes. At least when I went, by the time you are a junior and senior and are taking classes in your major, you have much smaller classes like you described at SLU. Regrettably, MU and other big schools just can't offer that all four years. I attended SLU's law school several years later. At that point, I was married and was a much more focused student. I actually did significantly better even though law school is more challenging. I got to know many of my professors well and still run into them occassionally out and about St. Louis or at various functions. I very much appreciate and value my education from SLU. My sister went to SLU for her undergrad, and she has no regrets whatsoever. She had no desire to go to a big state school for many of the same reasons you did not. Also, she was an athlete (a swimmer) and is now in the SLU athletic hall of fame. So she is very pleased with her decision.

I think Pinkel is a Kent State alum. He played for Don James at Kent State, and then coached under James at Washington.

Thanks for the welcome! I think I will leave now and try to untangle what the hell is going on at my beloved MU. The fun never stops.

Let's be clear about this. Claggett did not specifically say MU, and I am not trying to say that he would have gotten that experience at MU. When Ryan joked about how bad KU was in football (typically worse than MU), Claggett said at least they had football or something to that effect. I just thought that some of you would have been somewhat upset at his comments. I am not going to try to defend MU's football program. That wasn't my intent.

Thanks for your thoughts. I have season tickets to MU football (not basketball), and I hope Gary Pinkel gets things turned around. He is, I believe, a man of substance. I have compared him before to Soderburg in that regard. Neither excited me much at the time they were hired, but when you start to learn about them and how they go about their jobs, you find that they are rock solid people who will put in whatever amount of work is necessary to succeed. Both are more substance than style.

Here's the deal. Sorry that I posted and haven't returned, but I spent the holiday weekend drinking moonshine, shooting guns, and riding ATV's in Boone County. It wasn't earth shattering. He and Ryan Robertson were on with Frank C. Overall he was very positive about his experience at SLU, but in response to Frank's question as to whether he had any regrets about his choice of attending SLU, he said that he felt like he missed out on the total college experience at SLU, being an urban campus, nonfootball playing, smaller school. He actually said that he felt he only had about 50% of the total college experience. Then Ryan chipped in and said his brother Troy had expressd similar thoughts after hanging out with Ryan at KU during fall football games. I thought his comments were interesting because when this subject comes up on this board, most here dismiss the idea that a big state school in a more traditional college environment offers any advantages over an urban setting like SLU. I'm not trying to stir anything up, I just thought some of you would be a little miffed at that statement, but apparently no one was listening anyway. Go ahead and respond with the usual MU jokes here, my timing is bad after the events of the past weekend in Columbia. But, Claggett did not specifically say that he would have had that experience at MU. He did say he was very close to transferring to Iowa State or Northern Iowa after Grawer was fired.

this morning? If so, I was wondering if you were somewhat upset by anything he said?

Welcoming committee? This is the most close minded, unfriendly college sports board I've stumbled across yet. You try to run off any "outsider" who doesn't kiss your rings and acknowledge your superiority. You yourself have invited me off in the past for daring to interject my opinion about MU (which was, is and always has been a frequent subject of conversation on this board). I started receiving emails from somebody last year telling me to go back to tigerboard. Welcomming committee???? Just admit you don't want outsiders and move on.

I'd run this by Vahe. The post is always willing to run a good smear job on MU. Besides, Vahe's probably chomping at the bit because his last MU article was a puff piece on Gary Pinkel.