courtside
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Posts posted by courtside
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This is circa 30 years ago...and some coaches unhappy with NCAA pulled their team to play in the NIT
NEVER
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....in a million years would I take an NIT Final over an NCAA First Round. EVER.
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I think GW is going to get in regardless...but not a done deal yet. They are not likelyto stumble in last 4 and conf tourney...but if they do...trouble city...that 212 SOS ...wow! strong record vs RPI top 100 and top solid against RPI top 50 should get them in. Losing a few games down the stretch...well I wouldn't recommend it, and I don't see it.
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SLU had two ways to help themselves.
1) beat Gonzaga, Iowa etc...at home
2) Win conference road games.
They didn't do this.
I think the A-10 gets one team this year.
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All I ask is that if people are going to strongly object to something...they should see it first. I can at least say I have seen some places that have really impressed me with their total game experience.
I have no problem with people sticking up for the band. That is fine, no problem. But I do have a problem if people are going to give the old knee jerk, oh not that stuff etc...blah blah...without experiencing a few places first.
If someone is unable to experience other places, fine, I understand that....but then a more informed response would be ...well ...I sure do love the band...not sure if you understand the history, and special place the band has at SLU...etc...I can't speak for other stuff, but this is what I like.....That might make more sense to me.
Instead some of the posts will come across as though those people do not emrace progressive change. Change can always be bad, but it can be good too, and done well to mix in something for everyone and make everyone happy. You see...you, this poster, that poster...etc..are not the only fans or only targeted fans...and neither am I ....
And for the record...not chest thumping, because it isn't my style usually....but I am well aware of the band at SLU and other places...I have been going to SLU games since Luther Burden and Pee Wee Leonard...and SLU's band, while fun, good, great etc...isn't more special than many other bands out there too. Again, go see other places on their turf. I am in a position where I can do this, and I am telling you my own experience.
And as I said, I am not in favor of anything that is shocking, or not clever, or tastefully done. I am willing to bet a lot of $$ that what I am explaining is not the impression you have in your mind. If you start from scratch and go to game without thinking of this in some places...you will leave thinking...wow, everything done from the minute I walked up to the game til I left was unbelievably well done. ...and you will be blown away by the difference.
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No, not a band hater....plenty of opportunities for the band to play at games, not just pre-game and post game and half time....HOWEVER there will be plenty of other times I would prefer the alternative.
Are you advocating band only music the whole game?
I am far from a band hater...and like to hear school fight songs all the time. A great joy was on a visit to the College Football HOF in South Bend for example...there is an entire room where you can pick a school's song and hear it roar....I think Schasz would just have Rocky Top on repeat for an hour...I greatly enjoy Texas' song as well as many others.
I can do without some of the tired deceade repeated and outdate numbers. I have first hand seen the difference at games at places...the increase in atmosphere is amazing.
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I disagree, ...and this is what makes the world go round. I couldn't disagree more...this is after seeing the difference at many other places. No one is saying eliminate the band...but they would play pre-game, half-time...during a few timeouts during game...but would have their role reduced considerably. I am in favor of that....it is FAR ...light years far from an NBA atmosphere, and it does not come across as forced. NBA atmospheres are boring. The band has its place, but it needs to make room for other things too.
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Yeah nothing like shooting down something without seeing it. Quality post.
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I wish I had the link, but there was a great article on Wake Forest basketball last year on how they went to Marquette and lost the previous season....and were so impressed by the atmosphere, they hired some of the same people to better "produce" their own home games.
EVERYTHING is organized micromanaged.....from tthe head coach making the rounds at the big booster club bars pre-game at the arena, to the giveaway EVERY single game when entering...bobbleheads, t-shirts etc...it is MUCH more of pumped in music atmosphere, and a lot less student band. lights turned down pre-game, sort of like the old Michael Jordan Bulls intros....a lot of video scorebaord stuff...of the coach speaking to fans before the game, and players...and videos of old and current players with music blaring....honoring long time season ticket holders with gifts at timeouts and half time....clips of a quote from "Hoosiers" late in games of tight games......
There is a tremendous non-stop flow, it's like a raucous clap along dance party from techno, to Welcom e To The Jungle, Start me up type stuff.
And all of it is done while honoring tradtion, past players, honoring other sports teams...you name it in high class way.
At places, this becomes an event not to be missed. Not just a basketball game. There is absolutely no down town, or quiet time or lulls.
All SLU has to do is visit some other places for ideas....apparently even the ideas folks are being shared at some schools.
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I would have preferred something that said....originally the plans did not include practice facilities and coaches offices...even thoughs of Seoderberg and everyone else were that the Arena would be that original size, AND iclude the amentities.
I am supposed to read quotes from Levick that make the appearance that 10k waas the way to go all along...or that inexplicably the previous design didn't include the amentities?
As I said, I'm not buyin. As I also said, it isn't a big deal to me, the end result. The seating capacity is not what bothers me. Just be upfront about what went on in the process.
Really not a big deal to me.
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Nice spin from Levick but I am not buyin...sorry. Blah blah blah...SHE couldn't lead the effort to raise the necessary funds, so the new arena will scal eback to 10k.
I sure hop ethe goal is to have a LOT more than 1k students. What happens IF and hopefuly when SLU moves up in the world.....? And 2k-3k for student tix is more like it?
SLU wil get the hanfful of big gmaes at Savvis, and anything is better than nothing....but bottom line is on Levick's watch they had to scale back...a big positive sure....but objectively....this is her job, her gig....and any other evaluation than mixed result isn't correct. She can give all the quotes she wants about jammed this and that...not buyin, thanks.
Don't want to damper the day and positive....but I will at least always be objective.
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As it currently stands....I believe 3 games are allowed off campus...i.e. Savvis. So three big ones will be played at Svvis anyway. Keep that in mind too.
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Cheeseman,
What I am saying is I disagree. We disagree that is all, no big deal. I do not believe it is remotely necessary to in any way shape or form answer random rumors. Coaches have better things to do if in fact they are even informed. Most coaches are oblivious to much more than you think. They worry about coaching tthe team and recruiting. MANY rumors float around all the time all over campuses everywhere, most unfounded. Should Missouri have come out and refuted the Bob Knight rumors of house buying in that areas while Snyder was the coach? A big fat NO.
If this was on everyone's 10pm newscast, all radio stations...constantly....then I would open discussion more with you on it. There would need to be HEAVY CONSTANT coverage.
....as for Slaten....or Tuna...if a show isn't getting ratings, it will disappear or change format. It is all about ratings.
I always find it humorous to hear people say they hate Slaten, but yet still listen. If you want something done about it, don't listen, and he will go away, just like that.
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I would agree that ultimately Tuna's presence reflects on BM.
I have heard Frank Cusumano speculate and throw out rumors without any fact or merit. It happens. Obviously Cusumano deservedly commands more respect.
I didn't hear the show or comments...if he made comments, and others were present with him in studio on air...I suppose the response would be who did you speak with, can you confirm this....etc...orgee I didn't hear or know that, interesting. Was it said, I spoke iwth Liddell or I spoke with Liddell's folks...or John Doe at John Doe paper is reporting...
Probably not on all of the above, so most intelligent normal people don't care. Do you really think people listen and believe the things Slaten says on air? They listen for laughs, not hard hitting sports information.
You can always get your psorts info elsewhere.
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Multiple issues here:
In no order:
1) If Tuna bothers you, Tuna will be tough to budge. People LOUDLY voiced their opinions on Strickland on BM's show...Strickland's role was reduced in a major way. Basically BM listened. But Stricklans is young, less experienced, Tuna is not. BM needs a big push to shove him out the door. BM is a friend of mine and I have met Tuna several times through him...has always been nice to me, but I don't think anyone understands his loyalty to Tuna. BM is a very very loyal person, and is more prone to the save a guy mentality when he can't be saved. He is aware of Tuna's lack of popularity....imo it is a combo of giving Tuna yet another chance, and also to try to stir up some hot buttons and topics. Tuna is much more capable in a private conversation than on radio. I would never listen to him on a radio program, as his on air credibility is none.
2) BS doesn't need to squash diddly poop. Who cares? I tried to explain it...you din't understand or disagree, that is fine.
3) TL....depends on the program and need....he would have gotten time at most places this year....how much depends on the team and need. He would have started some places,(top 50) and would have come off the bench in other places(top 25)....but would have gotten some time. I have seen comparable players be a role playing starter or regular bench contributor their frosh season. Obviously he has been asked to do more at SLU...but also on the flip side he doesn't have the tealent around him to make life easier for him either....obviously hypothetical estimates.
I would finish with, if Liddell say is a good kid, good team player, a top player on team....etc...gets along with staff and team, no issues...and left SLU say after this year, BS would be in serious trouble. This isn't going to happen because it is rare.
Now, I have seen players in that range of talent...who do not develop, and get bad advice that they should be the man on some solid teams.....and want to be more of a focal point, and clash with the coach and transfer.
It is "possible" for a kid to play somehwere have great success, and transfer up from a smaller program to better one. I would think SLU is good enough as a program, though not strong, to combat this. At SLU Liddell is "the man." He would NOT be the man at a lot of top programs. He would be a good solid contributor.
But I think the underlying topic has merit. Stlye of Play. This is something that has been brought up in past as one of big question marks for Soderberg, and how it would affect attendance and recruiting. Regardless of style of offense, if your team can't score in the upper 60's and 70's most nights, over a multiple year time period, it is an issue. Style of play has been an issue on offense for BS. It is a fair topic. If approached in an informed way, nothing wrong with hearing discussion questioning the offense under BS. Kids don't want to go to a place that scores in the 50's. And fans don't want to go see it either.
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This happens in EVERY city. Trust me, there are print, radio, and tv people like this in every town...always one or two that do this stuff.
If I had a nickel every time Mark Few, Tom Crean etc...were mentioned for another job every year.....or rumors of recruits leaving....btw those two schools are doing just fine.
People, stop the paranoia. People can say and will say whatever they want to get edge in recruiting, or to try to spread ill will for their own vindictive reasons in the media.
If the kid actually left, then you examine the kid and the coach and decide is there a problem with one or the other.
I am quite certain Tommie Liddell knew SLU would be a .500 type of team this year, an NIT team....and that they wouldn't have the level of players to consistently score in the 70's his first year. He knew it was a turn around job.
Let's stop underestimating the kids. These aren't babies.
Most kids who do transfer,...yes it happens all the time, and always will...are kids who are not good enough to play, kids who don't improve, or kids who think they are better than they are.
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But do you/we really care what is said on local sports radio in STL?
So Joe average guy or gal gets in their car, flips on radio, hears Tuna's comment and thinks Liddell is set to transfer. Let's say this premise is true. This isn't someone eho is going to attend a SLU game anyway....and if they do it would be vey infrequently. If somebody had interest in going to a SLU basketabll game, or being even a casual SLU fan, I would have to think they are going to go a little deeper than hearing one person on a radio.
While I agree that STL radio and tv media MUST be held to a higher standard and more accountable...shame on those people for believing everything they hear.
People in STL ....even casual sports fans, know who has an inkling of sports knowledge or fact and who doesn't.
BM has been wrong plenty of times, Cusumano has been wrong plenty of times...etc...but at least those two have some levels of credibility for example. I think people, even the stupid will consider the source on average.
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Steve I would buy your POSSIBLE curiosity factor, and light-hearted approach that there is a percentage, probably not great, but a percentage that may do what you suggest....and sure it would interesting or entertaining fodder.
I don't see it as more than that. I do believe there is a very small percentage of coaches who read regularly of their message boards...sadly.
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Billsboys...past and present people regular or non-regular...have backgrounds playing college, pro, coaching college....or have been family members, former players...etc..plenty of the types you mentioned as well. I don't think you can assume anything.
WHO CARES if the players or coaches read this board? These are adults or young adults in student cases. I would assume any 18-22 athlete and student would not have the time nor care. If it were me, I wouldn't be interested....unless someone walked me over and said hey look at this...then curiosity for minor moments. People better be thicker skinned and more intelligent than that to let any time of board bother or help them. It is a place for people to get SLU hoops info...some vent....or want an outlet for venting for seeking fellow SLU supporters....for out of towners or frequent travelers like myself to check in on occasion to get info and updates on anything missed.
And the one other thing that stood out to me above...this board may or may not be the most rabid SLU fans....there are many other good SLU fans who either don't know this board exists, and/or don't have interest in internet message baords.
I really don't think a player could read this board and have major negative effects from it. Perhasps some are overestimating the power of message boards.
I do enjoy this one, and appreciate the info etc....and I leave it at that.
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What people need to understand is the difference between his current competition and Frosh year. By all accounts he will have less of an impact than Liddell and Lisch in their Frosh years. BIG difference shooting wide open looks in HS and college. His advantage will be that others around him will be one year better...but imo it won't be enough. It will be a learning experience for him, limited time etc...in his upperclassmen years the hope is he will get opportunities created by others and convert. I have seen a LOT of dead-eye elite shooters in HS ...top 50 kids go to college and take a couple of years to make the same impact in college, and no offense to him, he isn't in that category. SLU needs shooters, so he will be good to have...but his impact won't be felt next year imo.
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I disagree with Bonwich. Kids choose schools for a VARIETY of reasons. We are talking about two things here.
1) Having a high profile sports program can and HAS shown that a school can reach more prospective students if one didn't exist. It has been documented at different places that the quality of overall applicant has increased with some connection to it. ....and seperately take, say # of applicants....if it rises dramatically furing a several year period, and the school isn't admitting far more students...the sompetition for admisson increases. I know people at the schools mentioned and other possible case studies as well...and I can tell you some people who got in at another point in time would be hard pressed to do so now...if it was based on academic performance....the numbers have risen.
2) No one is saying that you have to have a successful high profile sports program to achieve in academics. What I was saying is that having a high profile successful athletic team that receives wide esposure, increases the possibilities of your applicant pool besides those people who choose base only on other factors.
I would also argue that having a high profile sport can extremely increase the quality of a school in many intangible areas as well, besides the academic ones reported by universities.
Sure, Harvard will always be Harvard, and Tennessee will always be UT....but there is a lot of merit and fact that can be attributed to certain places.
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http://www.marquette.edu/opa/newsroom/news...emand1606.shtml
Fr. Wild Marquette University President has attributed the men's basketball program as a big part of this succes.
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Well put Bonwich.
What I think Doctor B fails to see...and I can always provide this more specifically if he likes...are the BENEFITS of a winning and successful, committed hoops program at SLU, as a whole.
University morale rises exponentially. General applications rise, and the school becomes more selective for students as a whole. This has happened at other places. The positive exposure of the school to help those rhetoric programs can in part come from a successful basketball program.
Academics at a university do not have to be compromised with a commitment to athletics. Many fine institutions do both.
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My bad...I had BM's comments on the brain, and not the above post regarding other coaches' comments...therefore I thought you were speaking of BM's comments instead.
Lance Stemler
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
I am uncertain but I think you have to sign up for Chicago Tribune..so I am posting whoe article. Novak has been nothing short of terrific his senior season...41 and double digit boards vs Conn...and monster game vs Pitt Sat. I just read this in this week's Chicago Tribune.
Marquette, Novak are taking dead aim
Golden Eagles making strong case for NCAA tournament berth, writes Dan McGrath
Dan McGrath
February 20, 2006
MILWAUKEE -- Marquette fans might have sensed it was their night Saturday when MU student Andy O'Connell flipped in a shot from three-point range for a semester of free tuition during a timeout for a promotion in the Golden Eagles' Big East game with Pittsburgh.
The kid's bucket had an estimated street value of $10,500, but the record crowd of 19,007 that packed the noisy Bradley Center was even more demonstrative after Steve Novak drilled a three-pointer over Pittsburgh 7-footer Aaron Gray with 2 minutes 48 seconds left.
Novak's fifth three-point basket of the evening gave Marquette an 81-77 lead. Much would transpire in those remaining 168 seconds, including two missed free throws by the aforementioned Gray with Pitt trailing 81-80 and two makes by Novak that pretty much sealed it for the Golden Eagles with 11.9 seconds left. The result was an 84-82 victory over the ninth-ranked Panthers, Marquette's second in three days over a top-20 team following a six-point win over No. 17 Georgetown on Thursday.
At 8-5, the Golden Eagles are guaranteed at least a .500 finish in their first year of Big East membership, and at 18-8 overall they present a strong case for their first NCAA tournament berth since 2003.
That's remarkable progress for a team that lost four of its last five and staggered to a 19-12 finish last season. Marquette was a first-round NIT casualty and struggled to score when do-it-all guard Travis Diener missed eight games with a foot injury and a broken hand.
"We were scuffling at the end, but I don't think it's indicative of the type of team we were," coach Tom Crean said. "We were good and getting better when Travis got hurt."
Diener made the Orlando Magic as a second-round draft pick. But it's quite possible Marquette has upgraded at his position with Dominic James, an explosive freshman who plays point guard the way Barry Sanders played running back. Going head-to-head with four-year starter Carl Krauser, James hit Pitt with 16 points and six assists in 32 minutes, without a turnover.
Fellow freshmen Jerel McNeal (of Hillcrest) and Wesley Matthews also have been impact players for the Golden Eagles, but Crean insists he's not surprised.
"I never doubted the young guys' competitiveness," he said. "They know how to win.
"Plus we've got three seniors who have been through a lot and they're playing with a great sense of urgency. We've got old pushing young and young pushing old. It's a good mix."
Novak, in particular, is flourishing. The 6-foot-10-inch senior forward is a remarkable deep shooter, in range when he enters the building, and the Bradley Center buzzes with anticipation each time he loads up. Novak leads the Golden Eagles with 17.1 points per game, shooting 47.2 percent overall and 45.3 on three-pointers, but here's some real money numbers: 66-for-67 on free throws this season, 235-for-252 in his career, one miss in the last 14 months.
"You can see why we want the ball in Steve's hands at the end of the game," Crean said. "He's a high-level, big-time shooter, and he's playing with a great deal of confidence. With the way he's improved his overall game, he's going to make somebody a really good pro."
Novak was a dangerous weapon off the bench for Marquette's Final Four team as a freshman in 2003, a beneficiary of Dwyane Wade's creativity. Left more to his own devices the last two years, he sometimes struggled to find shots, but James' ability to draw defenders and his own improvement as a ballhandler have helped make him a more consistent scorer this season.
"If you pass it to him, there's a pretty good chance you're going to get an assist," Crean said.
Novak dropped a career-high 41 points (with 16 rebounds) on top-ranked UConn as Marquette won its Big East debut on Jan. 3. He beat Notre Dame with a last-second three-pointer 2 1/2 weeks later, and he has hit five or more three-pointers in 10 of Marquette's 26 games. He's shooting with such blithe self-assurance that it's surprising when he misses, no matter the distance.
"Coach has been on me to take the shot when I'm open," Novak said. "The other guys tell me that, too, so when everybody has that much confidence in you, you almost have to be confident in yourself."
Even against the Big East's behemoths.
"Before the season, coach made it clear that our goal was to win in the Big East now, not two, three years from now," Novak said. "I appreciate that. I'm a senior. Joe Chapman, Chris Grimm . . . this is it for us, so we want to win this year. The young guys who have come in, they play with a lot of confidence. We've been getting better the whole year, maturing as a team. We're starting to figure out how good we can be."
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