courtside
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Posts posted by courtside
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My point is what is standard for any quality program...plenty of private similar value schools in that mix.
I am well aware SLU runs their hoops program mom and pop style for long time.
SLU can make a commitment to hoops if it wants to do so. I think they have enough apologists.
All I did was point out that SLU is behind the times in that departement.
If SLU is so mom and pop, I vote SLU goes to no scholarships and drops to D-II status immediately.
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1st to Cheese, ...the difference is SLU won their league tourney...sure UC had the injury etc...SLU wasn't a middle of league or worse team that also did not win the league tourney. Bradley lost the league tourney and was in 6th place. Syracuse earned their way....especially in that conference....and won the tourney...I have no problem with that. I do however think there is no way Syracuse should have a seed better than say 7 or 8 at best.
And Schasz...the only reason why Winthrop isn't talked up even more...is that surprisingly they lost a few conference games...though winning league and league tourney......but if the Vols don't bring it they'll get beat. It has the possibility of being a very rare 2-15 upset. The 2 seed was shocking to me.
What matters most are matchups as opposed to seeds for those in....
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I am not sure any of those other schools have offered or not.
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I posted elsewhere disputing Cal's 7 seed. Thought they would get in for sure...but not a 7 seed.
It is tough to stick up for GW in a year when Xavier is down, Temple is down....and GW's biggest non-conference win was vs a non-tourney team.
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There is more to the selection process than RPI. The original post had one mention of another factor than RPI, Air Force ooc wins.
MO State won at UWM without one of UWM's best players, ...and that is it. They din't win their league, and they lost first round of conf tourney.
...for one example....there will always be a few hits and misses for bubble teams.
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Cincy....Actually wins over the 3rd and 4th place Big East teams...plus the wins over LSU and at Vandy.
Nonetheless a bubble team...more deserving than Air Force, Utah State and possibly one or two others, sure.
Kirkland was one of their best players and I am sure the commitee looked at how that has affected their team. A win over Syracuse in conference tourney and they are probably in as opposed to Syracuse.
MO State's only quality non-conference win...was at UWM...and that was a game in which one of best players on UWM didn't play due to injury. And, UWM would not have been a tourney team this year at large.
Bradley is the head scratcher, finished 6th in league, didn't get the automatic, and non-conference wins..maybe their two point win over Western Ky, or 1st game of year vs down DePaul team.
GW? beat Maryland, that's it. They dominated their league so they got the invite
UAB is same dominated their weak league...non-conference best win was vs Nebraska.
Cal...same thing...10 plus league wins from good conference...ooc Sd St maybe best win.
Air Force bad conference...best wins were Miami and a down year G Tech.
Texas A&M zero non-conference wins of merit...but double digit bigger conference wins.
Utah St...weak confereence but double digit conf wins...zero ooc wins..
Even a KU who obviously should be where they are...only beat Cal and Ky as ooc wins...but obviously won their league and league tourney. Not knocking their seed at all just provding example.
Ioaw has one ooc win over KY
Even Ohio St only has two St. Joes and LSU.
So...it seems if you had 10 wins in a major conference regardless if it was a down year for that conference, you get in....... just a couple of losses in weaker conference...maybe 12 wins...it gets you in...
Cincy finished 8-8 in the best conference this year, and lost in 1st round in conf tourney. They beat a couple of strong conference teams, and couple solid ooc wins. A few close losses like Vilanova, Syracuse in conf tourney..etc..bumped them out. But if Cincy wins ONE more oncference game or ONE game in conf tourney they get in. Obviously they are probably a better team than some of the above who got in....but ....Big East got a record 8 teams...and even though they say they don't look at that, they do...how many from a conference...injured player...etc...
It seems you can finish 2nd or 3rd in reg season in weak conference, and play zero ooc quality teams, as long as you win 12 or more conf games or so...and not lay egg in your conf tourney....you can get in. Also, if you can win 10 games in traditional power conference, you are in regardless of anything else.
For my taste the conference tourney is for giving one team one last shot at the dance by winning conf tourney...I think people get too caught up in conf tourney. Reg season should be held in higher regard. The interesting cases are schools from a weak league, don't win league or conf tourney...some iffy selections there.
MO State can discuss RPI, but really not a lot else. And there are other factors besides RPI.
Cincy needed one more conf tourney win or reg season win, but not much.
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Macon, no chance. Isn't ready. However their top assistant has been there 10 years...albeit straight from playing at Penn....he would have only internal shot.
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What is interesting is he didn't get the Temple job until he was 50, having coached D-II for ten years prior to that....after a lot of high school coaching etc...approached the D-I stage later in life.
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What bothers me is the WAY too much consideration for Conference Tourneys.
Syracuse a 5....a 5.....WOW. You've got to be kidding me. They received a better seed than West Virginia, Georgetown, Marquette...and same as Pitt....all of whom finished tied for 4th or better in conference. ...let alone vs other teams. I knew Cal would get in...but they jumped up to a 7 because of conference tourney. KU getting a 4. Iowa a 3.
IU getting a 6 was a wow. Nevada a 5.
Air Force was the head scratcher...very surpised Cincy didn't get in.
MO St, Mich, FSU, etc...all bubble teams no surprise to me.
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You're right Cowboy(sarcasm)
I merely pointed what is standard.
I suppose I am not allowed to speak unless I give 6 figures to the school. I forgot that SLU is a mom and pop school....I mean gee it is truly a blessed miracle that SLU even has uniforms and everything and not playing intramurals only! And the classrooms have walls doors and windows and everything too. Holy Cow!
Perhaps they could schedule Blackburn on a weekday afternoon...make it a road game and walk to Southern Il?
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Traveling more than short distances by charter flight is STANDARD for any top level league program, period.
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I liked the Sunday piece holding SLU accountable for a winning hoops program. Many things I agreed with....however I couldn't disagree more with the SLU should be in the MVC BS....I thought that issue wasn't up for discussion anymore...I thought wrong. The day SLU joins the MVC is the day I officially give up on the program.
The GW shots were pretty weak...can find examples in almost any conference.
Otherwise I was fine with the rest, especially regarding SLU fans, the school's commitment and Soderberg.
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Not for a chartered flight.
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I can say this.
Many teams charter planes for many of their road games. This is accepted standard for many programs committed to winning hoops, not unique. These same schools do travel by bus for 1-2 hr drives, and short distances.
The point I think you are missing here is ...Soderberg is not the norm. While some might find it refreshing that he would glady walk to his road games and play in a shack(kidding)...that the game and practices are the only important thingsto him...it is near sighted and naive. When you want to recruit with the big boys for big time recruits, you need to bring a lot to the table. What are your practice facilities like, special academic facilities for athletes, training facilities, your game day arena, game atmosphere ...all the other little things and perks...how do you get to your games?
If the attitude is we at SLU are only interested in kids who care about books and playing ball regardless of everything else...the boat has been missed. You have to be "in the game" to compete for top recruits. You have to have upgraded facilities, travel in better manner etc...these are standard things if you want to compete with the big boys. Top kids get pampered everywhere and sold on different schools atmospheres etc....
Kids will choose based a lot on how they like the coach....well...if they like multiple coaches and places...some of the above are standard things that eliminate places who are mom and pop. Sure there are always exceptions...but exceptions, not the norm.
To say well Coach Soderberg doesn't complain about the lack of commitment, ...while that is nice and all...too bad that isn't all that matters. OF course the kids at SLU don't complain. How many kids didn't consider SLU based on the above? How many local and regional players? I'd bet quite a few.
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I am not saying whether or not Soderberg will be around for 5 years, but I can say if he doesn't make the NCAA's next year or year after, hew ill not get a third season after that. No chance...or else SLU's commitment to winning doesn't exist.
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During the regular season, there is nothing wrong with charter bus for games within a couple of hours drive. especially a lot of games for East Coast schools. Anything out of a couple of hour range should be charter flights during regular season.
And, for conference tourney I would be leaving a full couple of days before playing. Mid-terms it has been reported were an issue. Either take them early, take them upon return, or on the road. That shouldn't be an issue. Game is conference tourney, 5.5 hour drive, and leave rather late...I am unimpressed.
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And yes, Hansbrough is a 20 year old Frosh.
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Maybe some day SLU will ...gasp...catch up to the college sports world and have charter flights?
Long way to go indeed.
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But DeSmet's track record is actually better than most, which was omitted from your post. Your post read as if there were better alternatives out there. I was merely stating there weren't. From my limited viewing of Brandenburg, he needs to play in more control and improve in a lot of areas to be a D-I recruit. Since he was only a Soph, the possibility and potential is there to keep an eye on him and see how he develops.
The point also was that you base the potential success on a kid based on his school's previous background with big players?
Chaminade never had anything before David Lee. He did alright. I guess I don't understand your comments saying based on a school's past history...how well a kid will then do....then you took arguably one of the more successful schools in this regard, and single them out. It didn't make sense.
I understand what you have now said as...I picked DeSmet because they have been better than most....but on the other half of the point...just because a school hasn't produce a high quality big in a long time, doesn't mean they can't. ...or doesn't mean this particular kid won't change that.
I would agree that STL hasn't produced many high quality big players in hoops over the past few decades. Very few and far between.
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The topic wasn't whether or not Gordon was better than current SLU players...
Other than Anthony Bonner, would you list to me all the Vashon post players that have gone on to high major success in college and possibly beyond? You had to reach for Robinson and Gordon. In all the glory of Vashon's history, those were the first two you came up with? In a word wow.
I am not knocking Vashon, merely pointing out to 3 Star, that he easily could have made his remark with refernce about the V many other local high school teams. Compared to many of the area teams I would argue the success rate of the school he chose to pick out has been better. His comment seemed misplaced, or at least incomplete to not include the others...even highly successful programs such as the V.
I am open to a LONG list someone wants to provide me.
LaPhaonso Ellis and who else at Lincoln or the since combined schools on the East Side...in the past twenty or more years. Ritter had two I mentioned. David Lee and who else at Chaminade?
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"Bickel didn't attend DeSemt. And I wouldn't excatly rule out a player based on his school's history. Or we'd be saying it about most of the metro area. What schools have produced multiple high quality college saccess big men? The ones mentioned for DeSmt dominated the high school level. ...which is actually a step above may other schools.(Ries had solid career at Wymoning, Baniak underachieved at SLU, Howard played at Dartmouth, Stockbarger Valpo, Kohnen was star at Navy, many others at D-II or smaller D-I)....no not high d-I level. But who has? The V? Nope. Woods and White out of Ritter, that is two....what about anyone else? ".......this was my post from the other thread.
Would you mind listing the high quality D-I success stories of a particular school in the STL area....a school that has produced multiple players who were very good high major inside players?
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Robinson wasn't successful on the college level, and Gordon played mid major, on a bad team. If that is the best you can do from the V over decades, not impressed as being any different than the other schools.
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So 3 Star, where is your list?
Mcguirre makes AP Illinois AA 3rd team All-State.
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
Scheyer tops AP all-state team
The Associated Press
March 14, 2006, 10:20 AM CST
Glenbrook North senior Jon Scheyer was the only unanimous selection for the Class AA Associated Press All-State boys basketball team.
The 6-foot-6-inch senior, who has signed with Duke, was named to the first team on all 20 ballots by a statewide panel of sportswriters and broadcasters. The All-State team was compiled for The AP by Marty Maciaszek of the Daily Herald.
Scheyer, who is averaging 32 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 steals a game for last year's state champions, was voted to the All-State team for the third time in his career.
Senior point guard Sherron Collins of Crane and junior Derrick Rose of Simeon were the only other first-teamers named on all 20 ballots. Both made the second team last year.
The Kansas-bound Collins is averaging 34 points a game. Rose is averaging 18 points a game for the Chicago Public League champions and the 6-foot-3 guard is receiving interest from several Division I teams, including North Carolina, Illinois, Kansas and Arizona.
Rounding out the first team are Marshall senior Patrick Beverley and Proviso East senior Brian Carlwell. Beverley is the top uncommitted senior in the state with averages of 36 points, 6 assists and 5 steals a game for a team that spent six weeks atop the Class AA poll. The 6-11 Carlwell has signed with Illinois and is averaging 23 points, 12 rebounds and 6 blocks a game.
The entire second team has made Division I college commitments: Edwardsville's Spencer Stewart (Illinois-Chicago), Bolingbrook's Will Walker (DePaul), Thornton's Joevan Catron (Oregon), St. Joseph's Jonathan Peoples (Notre Dame) and Freeport's Willie Veasley (Butler).
Third-teamers Paul Bayer of Moline (Lehigh), Dustin Maguire of Edwardsville (St. Louis) and Osiris Eldridge of Phillips (Illinois State) are headed to Division I schools.Washington senior Mario Little and Simeon junior Tim Flowers are also receiving Division I interest.
The full list:
FIRST TEAM: Jon Scheyer, Glenbrook North, 6-6 Sr. G; Patrick Beverley, Marshall, 6-2 Sr. G; Brian Carlwell, Proviso East, 6-11 Sr. C; Sherron Collins, Crane, 5-11 Sr. G; Derrick Rose, Simeon, 6-3 Jr. G
SECOND TEAM: Spencer Stewart, Edwardsville, 6-4 Sr. G; Will Walker, Bolingbrook, 6-2 Sr. G; Joevan Catron, Thornton, 6-7 Sr. C; Jonathan Peoples, St. Joseph, 6-3 Sr. G; Willie Veasley, Freeport, 6-3 Sr. G
THIRD TEAM: Paul Bayer, Moline, 6-5 Sr. F-G; Dustin Maguire, Edwardsville, 6-5 Sr. F; Mario Little, Washington, 6-4 Sr. F; Tim Flowers, Simeon, 6-5 Jr. F; Osiris Eldridge, Phillips, 6-3 Sr. G
HONORABLE MENTION (Received at least one vote): Marcus Lewis, Sr. (Warren); Billy Rush, Sr. (Thornridge); Jeff Ryan, Sr. (Glenbrook South); Lewis Jackson, So. (Decatur Eisenhower); Evan Turner, Jr. (St. Joseph); Demetri McCamey, Jr. (St. Joseph); Bill Cole, Jr. (Peoria Richwoods); Kavon Lacey, Jr. (Alton); Stephen Jones, Sr. (Bethalto Civic Memorial); Glendale Moore, Sr. (Mt. Vernon); T.J. Marion, Sr. (West Aurora); Vance Cooksey, Sr. (Marian Catholic); Nick Fruendt, So. (Batavia); Ceola Clark, Jr. (Warren); Andre Walker, Sr. (Homewood-Flossmoor); Chad Hettermann, Sr. (Johnsburg); Dayvon Ellis, Sr. (Larkin); Jordan Lee, Sr. (Champaign Central); Matt Roth, So. (Washington, Ill.).