courtside
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It is my understanding DeSmet's leading scorer this season so far, Junior Guard, and soccer All American, Will Bruin did not play.
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Belated congratulations for SLU soccer senior John DiRaimondo for being named Adidas 3rd team All American. He also was named an Academic All American as well. He was invited to the MLS combine.
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Recruiting hurt BS early years at SLU. He is improving. The keys are recruiting kids other schools actually want, like TL or KL. Those are the two local kids others didn't want that he secured.
It will be interesting to see how he does with the local junior class too.
Other things that have hurt besides recrutiting, is his lack of desire to want to sell the program, and the style of play. Attendance has gone down. If you want to play the hold the ball style of play that BS has played til this year, people will not come unless you are near undefeated great. So the point is there are underlying negative opinions on BS becasue of areas besides recruiting.
Recruiting inside out, regionally, will make him successful. No reason he can't get kids from the region, and not just locally too.
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A road game and neutral court game are two different things with two different meanings. You have home games, neutral court games, and road games. There is absolutely no connection whatesoever between neutral court and road game.
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We can agree that it is too early to tell. They will need results v Purdue, Illinois...and a strong showing against the likes of KU, Texas A&M, Texas, Ok St, in the top part of the conference. Can Mizzou play with and get wins against those teams this year, ...we shall see. If they do, they will be in good position with their RPI. record doesn't mean much anymore. Need that RPI in the 40's at worst, and to finish in top 5 of conference or so. If they can do that, they have a chance at NCAA, sure.
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Either one, you didn't know your facts of the games and where they were played which is the likely answer or two as you put it, you lied and were "wondering if anyone would call me on it." lying that is.
Mizzou is doing a nice transistion job with Anderson and building confidence for the following seasons. They aren't contending or going anywhere this season. As Mizzou gets better players, they will need to beef up their non-conference schedule. One, to improve their RPI and NCAA positioning, and two, unless you want to rack up 20 wins with 5000 people in the seats each year. That won't last long. I am confident Mizzou will be beefing up its non-conference schedule next season.
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>"Big 12 teams don't play on the road"
>
>Have you been watching any college basketball this season?
>Kansas played at Florida and recently at DePaul, Texas A&M
>played at LSU and play at UCLA tomorrow, Texas played at
>Michigan State, Oklahoma State played at Missouri State and
>Syracuse, and Oklahoma played at Memphis. These are what I
>would call the top teams in the Big 12 and they appear to be
>willing to go on the road and play some legitimate teams.
I understand the point, but you ned better examples. KU played Florida in Vegas, with a pro KU crowd. Texas played Mich St on neutral floor in NYC. OK St played MO St in Padre Texas. OU played Memophis in Hawaii.
Now, SLU played at Texas A&M and at SIU. To a lesser extent, they played Loyola and will play at Houston, ...better than playing cupcakes in RPI sure, but not upper echelon by any means.
Texas A&M goes to LSU and to UCLA, and plays tough neutral court games.
KU goes to DePaul and South Carolina, and plays several neutral court tough games.
Texas, at St. John's and at Tennessee and several neutral court tough games.
Mizzou plays at Purdue, not much else on road non-conference. Illinois neutral court.
Mizzou's schedule isn't very strong this year, but SLU's schedule is not as tough as the other Big 12 schools mentioned non-conference. Not close.
And obviously the Big 12 is a much stronger conference than the A-10 this season.
SLU has done a much better job with the schedule, having two big teams on it,UNC and Texas A&M, and having SIU, Mo St, and Loyola and Houston. One could argue with their weak conference, that the non-conference schedule could have been scheduled even tougher this year, and should have. If SLU beat UNC...it puts less pressure on themselves come conference time. Otherwise pressure is high to not have a bad road loss or two in the A-10. If SLU can finish in top 3 in conference, preferably top 2, they should get an invite...assuming they don't do horrible in conference tourney. SLU obviously will be rooting for these other mid major schools to do well this year...Loyola, Houston, etc...not a spot you want to be in, but that is where they are at this time.
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People can't take off the blue colored glasses. Many SLU fans must think winning in college hoops requires lack of integrity. It is a defense mechanism, tunnel vision to think everything is fine the way it is. SLU basketball is irrelevant in St. Louis. That can change. Selling the program and being an ambassador for the program are also very important things for a successful program. Openly, BS has said he does not enjoy that aspect of the job, and leaves a lot of that to others. That is a major concern. This isn't about appeasing the handful of billikens.com posters. It is about building a successful college basketball program. There is a lot more to it.
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And I was there when they scheduled Blackburn on weekday afternoons. Welcome to 2006. The program has advanced beyond those days. I for one would like to see more consistency at a slightly higher level than now. I would like to see SLU make the NCAA tourney most years and schedule tough non-conference games(Texas A&M, UNC, etc..)You don't have to be i the top 25 or get top 50 kids to do that.
I agree that the above poster is unrealistic to think it all gets done overnight with snap of fingers. But I don't see any progression since the early days of Spoon Ball. I see regressive years and the same level.
The current level isn't good enough for me. The atmosphere is dreadful at many games, not good enough for me.
SLU should be more competitive than it is, playing an attactive brand of ball. It is certainly very very possible.
Some are content with where things are vs where they were...and some want more than that. I am in the category of wanting more than that. I don't expect top 50 recruits or top 25 ranking every year. But I do expect SLU to be in the top 50 every year. And getting top 150 players.
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Ahearn is just the symbol. It isn't imo so much about Ahearn to most people. He is a nice player, but he isn't a great player. He is a shoot first shooting guard in a point guard's body, known to have a shall we say difficult father too. He is the symbol because he wanted to go to SLU. Yes he would have helped SLU. He would have been better than some of the other stiffs.
I see no problem with people holding the program accountable for missing on local get-able players.
If anything, I have long thought SLU fans in general were way too complacent and soft. I have used the Rex Hudler analogy in the past. SLU fans like the nice guys who try hard and maximize their abilities most. Personally, having a stable winning program impresses me more. But to each their own.
Sure, every school in the country misses out on kids each and every year. That isn't the point. Accountability is the point.
I want to see a consistent winner built and that is why I am here. I don't need to bash or use foul language or attack. But I have concerns and reservations, if SLU doesn't upgrade recruiting. One good class so far. It is a legitimate concern for discussion.
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If you want to build a program like Marquette or Gonzaga, imo it will take a dynamic coaching presence on and off the court who is tireless worker, not just in the basketball part of the job. That person would need full support of the administration to do things. That person is tough to find.
If SLU won ball games and made the atmosphere at games an event not to be missed, people will come. The casual observer not affiliated with SLU will come because people in St. Louis will support a winner. The only winter competition for sports dollar is the $80 ticket Blues after first of the year.
SLU won't have a problem getting fans if they win consistently, and play a more attractive style of ball. See Tom Penders comments. Hoops junkies will come, but not Joe average fan that you need as well.
This Saturday your above mentioned Marquette hosts Wisconsin. Why do I mention it? Well, Lately there have been some pretty good recruits in that state and region, and many of them go to either Wisconsin or Marquette. Not as many are floating off to the far away powers.(best kids in recent years are from in state or Minnesota, Chicago, Indiana on either team) Build your program locally, regionally, then sustain it nationally and you will have a winner. Much easier said than done. Takes a dynamic recruiter who can do it each year or every other year.
SLU needed to build off of Liddell and Lisch. If the response back is...well...not many good STL area kids in two years following...go to rest of the state, S Illinois, Chicago,(where there are always players) or Arkansas(while they were rebuilding under Heath had a chance for some)....etc...places in the region. It inevitably doesn't matter where you get your players...i.e. Arizona has zero kids on their roster from in state...but it is easiest to build a program that way. AZ is big time and can go nationally wherever to get kids.
It is frustrating to hear the two big things on this board:
1) person A, ...leave SLU alone, it is just fine, we like our nice hardworking people. Excuses are made why the team and program isn't better.
2) The unrealistic people who think SLU has the tradition or history or commitment of the other schools.
But the truth is in the middle...SLU can be a good basketball program, much better than it is now. Or I wouldn't be on this board. It is NOT good enough or acceptable enough for me as it is currently. For many that is not the case. However, it will not be done overnight. That is entirely unrealistic.
Recruiting is hard, tough stuff. It isn't for the meek. In the beginning it will always take a Lisch or Liddell to believe in starting something...then a couple of other big timers who believe in what is being started...and get the ball rolling.
The Arena and facilities will help a lot. And that is one part of many needed to succeed.
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I always try to read coaches books...many of which are yawn fest. Some are not...this year I have read a couple I recommend to those on the board.
Lute Olson's new book/autobiography & Barry Alvarez's book this year "Don't Flinch" autobiography.(football, but good stuff) Some really good stuff about recruiting, philosophies, etc..straight shooting stuff. The books obviously are not entirely about recruiting or mostly...they are about a lot of different things...but good stuff on building a program from nothing in both cases, recruiting, winnning...etc..university support and relations, building friendships with other coaches....etc..I enjoyed them.
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Roy,
You don't want AD turnover. You are aware Levick is gone as soon as she gets a big time offer somewhere else? She will use the new Arena on resume, as well as mopping up with lesser sports in easier leagues. All she needs is a little more improvement in men's hoops and she is toast. No chance she stays at SLU for the long haul. None. I am fine with that, as long as there is a successor to continue from that point and continue to move forward.
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>courtside, i have never heard coach soderberg say that. i
>can imagine any coach thinking that as recruiting is nasty.
>it is the one aspect of division one athletics that makes me
>the most sick.
>
>that said, i recall brad at a billiken club meeting a couple
>of years ago make the statement when asked what aspect of
>coaching does he think he is better at than folks think and
>without missing a beat he said recruiting.
>
>when did he say the opposite?
To me privately. Told me more than once that he likes the idea of coaching smaller level ball more where all you do is coach.(He would never go back and do that of course voluntarily, just speaking out loud matter of factly about it.) He isn't a fan of the other things necessary at major D-I. He likes the level of play and winning at that level, but all things being equal, he prefers to just coach ball and let others do the Arena selling, recruiting etc...I can tell you he doesn't enjoy recruiting. Some coaches do enjoy recruiting.
You said Brad made a comment that people underestimate his ability to recruit. I am saying his heart isn't in recruiting. It is necessary evil to him. There are coaches out there who embrace the recruiting aspect of the game much more than BS. He may believe he is underestimated as a recruiter. I wouldn't expect BS to say otherwise about himself. He is a proud man, and I am sure he genuinely believes it. But I guarantee you, he would be just as happy coaching some D-III ball or high school ball somewhere where he doesn't have to put up with the other BS. Coaching major D-I is a challenge for him, and that is why he is doing it.
If he can get the elite local and regional players in strong years, he will do fine and build a foundation and move forward. If he can't add to Lisch and Liddell in two seasons after...the momentum is lost of getting a couple of top local players, and he starts all over again.
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>In addition to the 4 NCAA bids, Rich Grawer's teams were
>very close at least 3 times. Two of his teams were flat out
>snubbed by the NCAA, one that finished 25-10, and another
>that finished 27-10 and was the NIT runner-up. As I recall
>that latter team had an RPI of 47 on Selection Sunday. But
>SLU at the time was in the MCC, which was considered a 1 bid
>league, and SLU could never get past Xavier.
>Even though the NCAA number is 4, in a sense it more fairly
>should be 6.
>
>I think it is fair to say that SLU should be able to be on
>the level of Marquette, Creighton, Xavier, Gonzaga, etc.
>Frankly, why shouldn't SLU be able to be even with Marquette
>and above the others? SLU is ranked higher than all of
>them, #5 academically nationally among all Catholic schools.
> Only Notre Dame, Georgetown, Boston College, and Fordham
>are currently ranked higher academically than SLU. SLU is a
>good school. The campus has improved dramatically. It is a
>good place.
>
>SLU is much higher than UMKC and SEMO in the basketball
>pecking order.
>
>In hoops, Gonzaga currently has a built-in advantage out
>here because the Zags are head and shoulders above the rest
>of the WCC. Gonzaga pretty well knows that it will be in
>the NCAA Tournament each year. But it wasn't always that
>way. When I was first out here, Gonzaga was a middle of the
>conference WCC team.
>
>Re recruits, it may not be best for Brad Soderberg to say
>things publicly like this, even if it is the truth. It has
>been shown time and time again that when SLU wins, the
>nucleus of the team is home grown. This is not to say that
>SLU should not recruit nationally. But SLU seems to have
>the better chance of landing the true stars if they are
>local players, i.e. Scott Highmark, Erwin Claggett, Larry
>Hughes, Anthony Bonner, Monroe Douglass, Roland Gray. SLU
>wins when the borders are sealed, especially from that state
>school 100 miles to the West.
No, it is not good for Soderberg to say this publicly because it isn't correct. SLU needs to win with local, regional players to start, but in order to maintain any sort of national success, or move up the ladder a lot on the totem pole of programs, they will also have to recruit nationally and into other regions at some point after achieving local and regional success. You use accumulated contacts in other regions and other parts of the country to land players too. It is called networking.
Soderberg does not like the recruiting aspect and sales aspect of the job. It is part of the job. He can go coach D-II or DIII ball if he just wants to coach kids and not deal with anything else. This is major D-I ball, and there is much mroe to it, and it can be done successfully at high levels, doing it the right way without compromising integrity.
I am all for a good guy like BS to do well. I am also all for him getting the commitment and support of the University too. But this isn't about the little engine that could, or root for the nice good guy who tries hard. Need to see some results too, and results need to be at a certain level to be acceptable regardless of how nice someone is...etc...Some SLU fans are similar to a lot of St. Louis fans in general, we'll take the nice guy regardless of talent and coach em up and do our best. Good kids go to the other schools mentioned above too.
I do believe it will take a special, unique person to sell SLU and get the program to another level, considering where it has been. Is BS that guy? That is what people are finding out. I do have concerns when the coach tells me that he doesn't enjoy recruiting, and doesn't enjoy the business side of the game to the point where it is more than just something everyone says. He just wants to coach ball and there is more to the job than coaching ball.
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I go to a lot of games and watch a lot of games in multiple sports at SLU. I know personally, people affiliated with the programs. And yes it is always nice to root for good people when they exist, etc...but college hoops for example is big business. Separating friendships with objectivity is easier for some than others.
As for posting wild, negative, unstable, hostile, unproductive things, ....that is about the individual. It doesn't matter if somebody sees 100 games or 2. Those same people will lack in civility, objectivity(positive or negative) whether they see 100 games or 2 games. It is about their personal character.
Take your Bernie M example. It is obvious to any knowledgeable person that Bernie is very good at providing insight and information regarding pro sports in St. Louis, because he covers those closely, is in the lockerooms on a regular basis, etc...and his depth of detailed knowledge with SLU or Mizzou is lacking. So, one could get upset and rant and rave over it, or accept it. Many people on this board think any negative comments by a newspaper or elsewhere somehow damages SLU in the eyes of a casual reader or observer. It is up to that reader or observer to gain knowledge of a situation beyond one article, or one talk show, etc...
People on here will post wild, unstable thoughts because of the problems within themselves, as opposed to the problems of SLU. People will post rose colored glasses thoughts, always protecting SLU because of their lack of objectivity, and insecurity,... and some will post in the middle of those, with informed rational thought.
I would suggest trying to ignore the uninformed irrational angry posts or threads. Why post with someone who brings nothing to the table? If the board gets too filled with those posters you don't like, there is always the choice of leaving the board...something I have considered many times. Your life will be just fine without it.
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troll:
1. A large, brutish creature of European myth, often lacking in intelligence. Sometimes compared to the Japanese oni.
2. A dumbass who makes idiotic posts in message boards newsgroups for the sole purpose of pissing people off, often lacking in intelligence.
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"Facts are facts, sorry." Exactly. Once a troll always a troll. Thanks for playing.
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In the game I saw he did both, DeSmet ran a lot of high lows, and he gets double teamed and feeds easy passes for lay ups from the free throw line into the post to teammates. Spent more time facing the basket, top of key free thrown line. DeSmet's guards had lots of open 3's on the perimter, off of screens, and knocked them down, and Ritter was content letting it continue. Would have liked to have seen Brandenburg get even more touches on offense, but Ritter pressed the entire game, full court, so many of Brandenburg's looks were put backs and lay ups and dunks. DeSmet didn't have to even run a lot of half court offense in the game, so it wasn't the best to judge his post skills. Lots of DeSmet breaking the press with little problem and filling the lanes on 3 on 2's or 2 on 1's...etc..
He didn't really need to post anybody up in the game. Ritter is tiny. 6'0 guys playing against a front line of Brandenburg and couple of 6'5 players. Many lobs.
He isn't polished by any means. But he has good hands, works in a system where back to the basket is well coached. When the opportunity came for him, I was expecting more offense to go through him back to basket and him getting doubled, but it wasn't a feed the post from the wing back to basket kind of game.
He has more size and athleticism than a Baniak, but needs to continue to improve.(and I am sure he will) He played within the game, didn't force stuff. Tremendous rebounder and shot blocker. And is very good passer. Would like to see more post moves in a different type of game. Plays with intelligence.
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Once a troll always a troll. Big surprise.
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College Soccer needs full leagues in SEC, Big 12 and Pac 10, and 64 team event not 48 and more games played.
Pro teams here need soccer specific stadiums. i.e. Your New England Revolution need a smaller city venue. 20k The league is run much better than in the past. Salary cap is doing well,unlike Europe. Eventually when the league gains more revenue, it can increase its cap steadily to keep more top players or attract better foregin born players in their prime and not past it.
More national training facilities and national junior teams. i.e. each MLS team should have a junior level team affiliation.
Currently the MLS all stars play an English Premier League team each season.
BTW...was announced Gold Cup semis and Finals next year will be in Chicago. Other sites include Jersey, Boston, Houston, Miami.
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I had seen some posts and threads with regard to Brandenburg, so I took a look. DeSmet played pre-season small school #1 Cardinal Ritter.
Brandenburg: He's a player. Last year he was best described as out of control at times with potential. As has been documented with his improved play with the Eagles over the summer, he can play. He isn't polished yet. But that is why it is only the beginning of his junior season. Long way to go.
What he does well: Catches and seals his defender, good hands if ball is anywhere near him. Terrific passer for his size, soft touch with shots and free throws, rebounding beast, and swats everything near the lane defensively. He even brought the ball up court a handful of times and twice dribbled from half court to the basket drawing fouls. Holds ball high at all times. Has athleticism for a kid his size.
Improvement areas: Polishing his game, more aggression with offensive positioning, and needs to work on defensive positioning when better teams and players present themselves.
As for the game, it was a nice first half, very sloppy second half. Don't let the final score fool you of 57-45, DeSmet could have won by 25 or more. Ritter is very quick and very small. Ritter knew they would be in for a size disadvantage in the half court, so they pressed DeSmet from the opening tip which led to easy baskets and looks for DeSmet. Brandenburg had at minimum 15 rebounds at my count, several blocks, but played within his team's system and offense. He was double and triple teamed and fed the open players who knocked down shots.
Refreshing to see two well coached teams with discipline, that don't rant and rave and ***** etc...don't get that much in high school ball.
I came away highly impressed with Brandenburg's improvement and he still has two high school seasons to go, as he needs to continue to polish his game during this time. Mike Dressler long time DeSmet assistant has long had success coaching up bigs at the school. DeSmet played their entire roster during the game. I think the water boy checked in a couple of times. One night Brandenburg will get 20 pts and the next 10. They are just looking to play their system and win games, instead of individual ball, showcasing kids. DeSmet's coach Bob Steiner let a lot of reserves play a lot of minutes to test out early season to see what he has to work on, and give kids valuable minutes in an early season game. It is definitely not the Dale Burgman short bench approach. But Steiner has always been this way. Everybody plays, and scores and stats won't be run up.
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Steiner can coach fine at DeSmet, better than a lot of teams in the coaching department. The talent level of the players surrounding Brandenburg may be an issue, haven't seen them yet. DeSmet and SLUH remain the only two teams in their conference that don't recruit for sports. It is the battle of play and compete a certain way vs...you better recruit to keep up with the Jones'....which is the way to go? That is the question. And those two schools prefer to do it the old fashioned way, right or wrong, depending on your opinion.
Favorite bills player
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
Players I have enjoyed more than others over the years, ...Burden, Leonard, Bonner, Gray,Waldman, Harris.