courtside
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Knollmeyer played small schools in Missouri. Pruitt played with the big boys in Illinois. Pruitt was recruited by top notch hoops factories. Knollmeyer for example was not. He also with Carter played behind players on a national championship runner up Illinois team, not for SLU.
Yeah really comparing the same. Nope. And even with that, they still got in games that SLU kids aren't....despite SLU's desperate need for them.
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>soderberg history tells us it is the rare freshman that
>plays significant minutes. i am not condoning that, just
>pointing out those questioning why the likes of maguire and
>knollmeyer are not playing more.
>
>and those of you ready to right players off because they are
>not contributing, i noticed watching the illini and mi$$ouri
>game on tuesday the vast improvement and minutes played by
>the illini inside players. both carter and pruitt have
>stepped up big time this year.
>
>let it play out before writing a player off.
1) It takes longer for "bigs" to develop than wings or guards.
2) Carter played in 17 games as Frosh, Pruitt played in 21, Pruitt started every game as Soph, and so far every game as Junior, Carter played in almost every game as Soph.
We'll see if SLU's Frosh playing behind MUCH lesser talent, can get into that many games or near it as Frosh and make those kinds of contributions as Sophomores as Pruitt etc...did.
These are big time players at big time schools, Pruitt a Superstar recruit and Carter was Texas class 5 player of the year. And these guys were there for a National runner up team.
The quality of recruit for SLU needs to upgrade dramatically if SLU wants to be a consistent NCAA caliber team. SLU scheduled well, and will rack up wins in weak conference, to look even better with the record. SLU currently goes 6 deep, and has plenty of needs on the team that Frosh could try to help in small doses. I have no doubt that the Frosh might not be good enough and that is why they aren't playing. That is the problem. Recruit kids who can get you minutes here and there in a lot of games as newcomers.
Recruiting is a large aspect of the job.
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The one point the new poster may have unintentionally made was Marquette...not apples to apples because of SLU's lack of tradition...however..when Marquette was down and out, struggling..what did they do? They hired Lute Olson assistant Kevin O'Neill with huge recruiting reputation and he recruited his ass off without the facilities and budget at the time. A super recruiter...and team went to sweet 16. There is something to be said for that. Obviously since then it has become bigger time, big budget, big conference all that stuff....but that guy did it with nothing. Sure he's a jerk and didn't last long etc...but SLU needs a coach that recruit his bleep off to get them in the game, on the map...recruit against the schools with all of the advanatges....then have a little success then get the advantages at SLU that other schools have. You can coach your kids up and pull off upsets, sure...that is why they happen in NCAA tourney all the time....but in long season etc..gotta have better players to get there. Recruiting is a skill, not every coach has it.
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>soderberg history tells us it is the rare freshman that
>plays significant minutes. i am not condoning that, just
>pointing out those questioning why the likes of maguire and
>knollmeyer are not playing more.
>
>and those of you ready to right players off because they are
>not contributing, i noticed watching the illini and mi$$ouri
>game on tuesday the vast improvement and minutes played by
>the illini inside players. both carter and pruitt have
>stepped up big time this year.
>
>let it play out before writing a player off.
This isn't the first year Pruitt has had any minutes. Pruitt also for the record was a supestar high school player that had every top program in the country after him. It just so happened Illinois was pretty darn good in recent years. We are talking about getting ANY decent minutes on a team that goes 6 deep and hasn't been to NCAA's in many years. How is that comparable? "Significant" also is the key word. You should have 1-2 Frosh who contribute double digit minutes a game unless you are a one of country's top programs, or you are a great team that year loaded with returning players and Frosh have to sit more. In this situation, SLU isn't going to get anywhere with JJ and even DB to some extent. If DM is not good enough to play, redshirt him or recruit someone better. DM was the star recruit of his classs. That concerns some people, rightly so.
I was on this board vehemently defending Lisch and Liddell when frankly they were very bad first half of season last year at many times. They had proven ability, and were learning as they played. Some yahoos expected miracles and didn't understand the HUGE transition from high school ball to college ball in any sport. So I am well aware that it takes elite players to get a lot of minutes as Frosh. But one, we aren't talking many minutes, and two, these aren't good enough players.
DM will likely be fine at SLU...but he is likely two year contributor as a shooter. That is a nice role player on the team. The idea is to elevate recruiting. Recruiting is tough nasty business. Someone in this thread said they miss AD's spradic shooting. The idea is to elevate recruiting better than him and find a consistent shooter and other areas.
Freshman do get minutes at top 25 and near top 25 programs, and struggle, and get better as they go. Lisch and Liddell did it last year. Lisch and Liddell are good ball players, but they aren't "rare" in college hoops. Nice top 100 players. That means similar level kids are going to all the other good schools too. Getting two kids like that in x number of years isn't good enough.
SLU should make tourney and BS should keep job. But he isn't exactly on great ground as far as I am concerned, with his inability to sell the program, playing offensively challenged basketball, and so on....
If he is so disappointed in their play, recruit better athletes coach.(BS is a good guy and has always been kind to me personally, but with new arena coming, many years to build foundation...etc...now is time where his leash is shortened and expectations raised a little bit, and that is objective, and fair.)
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With so many similar threads I will jump in here for post-game. As for the game itself, SLU played a nice 12-15 or so minutes to start the game. They had an opportunity to finish the half better. SLU needs either super conditioned athletes who can play near 40 minutes, or serviceable subs who can spell for 5 minutes at a time. Not having either hurt them late in first half. Turnovers increased, shot selection poor, and no offense being run last 7 minutes of first half.
No shame in losing to UNC. They are big strong, athletic, deep and can shoot 3's, score in transition, or finish near the hoop. That's a lot of things.
IV played well. He got tired of course in second half. If he had another move or two, an up and under etc..to get his pts to more like a 20 per game instead of 13-14...would really help him offset his conditioning. Obviously he is remarkably improved over first two seasons, however to play at next level in NBA will need to really work on conditioning even a lot more. Played well. Would only say needs to keep working on passing out of the post with better decisions. My biggest beef was why SLU didn't get him the ball MORE. He didn't get enough touches imo.
BS's post game thoughts were interesting about being unhappy with the result. That is all fine and good but recruit better and more athletic players, period. It isn't complicated. If you recruit current Frosh, none of which can get any time in non-conference schedule to gain experience, then why are they recruited in first place. Red shirt a few if that is going to be the case. Certainly somebody has to be able to provide better minutes than Justin Johnson? And a youngster still has upside to improve. Conservative BS is playing not to lost NCAA bid. Not a big fan of that but understand his strategy. By that I mean, he will go 6 deep because other upperclassmen aren't good enough, and Frosh aren't ready yet. Answer to that is recruit better Frosh who can provide spell minutes for starters and gain valuable experience in games.
SLU has had trouble with Athletic aggressive defenses with pressure, Houston, UNC etc...because they do not have enough ball handlers/point guards. They need two.
SLU needs to get more athletic in recruiting because it is very very difficult to win consistently if you cannot get transition baskets. Even when SLU tried last night, albeit against a great team, they haven't finished all that well in transistion when getting the few opportunities they do against decent competition. Tenative, awkward finsihes. Can't win every night walking it up without attacking off of the makes or misses. Very slim margin for error.
Shooters. Can't rely on one kid to shoot the ball. SLU needs a couple of shooters too. People will talk about the Liddell and Polk improvements, etc..but they really aren't shooters. Liddell does a lot of other things well and has improved his shot when it is wide open against lesser competition. Polk was expectedly destroyed last night. Shows you what happens when he mathces up with equally or more quick players...blow by him on dribble and shoot right over him from deep. For Polk to be more of an asset, needs to be a shooter, he isn't, and needs to penetrate more and create more for others, and he isn't. ...against decent teams.
On the current team, Liddell is a nice slasher, wing, mid range game....so moving on to power forward...SLU doesn't have one as we know. Meyer tries hard, hustles etc...and can contribute against lesser teams in variety of ways...but he isn't a shooter, he vastly undersized in post....classic tweener...will get you a drive score once in a while, but not a lot more....will hustle for loose balls and rebounds, but his feet are slow, something very important needed in college ball, quick feet.(It is reason DM doesn't get time)
This is why it is so important to have back to back classes of two high quality recruits, or at very worst, every other season, to approach top 25, and the quality of athleticism needs to improve. SLU needs a lot of players to play much much faster. They play too slow...footwork etc...
As I said, no shame in losing to UNC, and would much rather see them schedule, and a loss than an easy ugly win over whomever else lesser. You learn a lot more about where you are as a current team and program. I didn't expect a win, expected better second half and more of a game though.
SLU scheduled well, and should dominate conference play. And unless they slip out of top two in conference, should get to NCAA tourney. But certainly not a lock if they fall out of top 2 and don't win conference tourney.
BS can talk all he wants about about being disappointed with this and that...etc...what he should be saying, is we need better players and better atheletes who can shoot the ball. I need to recruit better.
Two point guards, power forward or big who can shoot, are the most glaring needs on the teams. I am all for rooting for players and their improvement...but SLU is a team where Luke Meyer HAS to start because there is no one better. Polk HAS to start because there is no one better. That shouldn't be the case, and that is the goal in next few years...to recruit kids better than what you have. Force those tweeners and less talented kids to the bench to be your spell guys. SLU is taking slow plodding steps to do this.
People can respond by saying, well this is soooooo much better than last year or recent years...etc...and that is fine, and I agree, but you have to have goals and standards for the future, higher than where they are now. Getting a new facility and practice facility is great step in right direction. Winning the close ugly games as opposed to losing them is step in right dircetion. But I am not without concerns.
People can root for guys, cheer improvements, all of those great things, but SLU needs to recruit better players and atheltes who can shoot. Coach can be upset with his guys etc...all he wants....I argue they played very hard, ran out of gas due to short bench, and without the ability to score in transistion, are forced to try to score in half court against more athletic bigger players. It is a lot easier to try to defend those types of players than score with or against them if you don't have the horses. Perhaps Lisch could have made things more interesting with a better hand, but not dramatically so.
SLU doesn't have the hoops tradition. SLU doesn't get great student support for athletics.....among many other things...so it is up to the coach...a lot on the coach to go out and make it happen in recruiting, and it is tough business. But that is what SLU needs. Can BS recruit better athletes of different sizes and positions who can also shoot? That is the big question. We shall see.
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...was in town for game, and watched it later again on tv, no bias at all on tv.
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NBA superstar, former Wisconsin Badger star...and possibly their all-time leading scorer Michael Finley(gotta look that one up but I think so) played at Proviso East, as did current Boston Celtic head coach Doc Rivers, an NBA star.
DeAaron Williams was very highly recruited and touted. This current kid is playing behind Taylor, Flowers, Hughes, etc...No chance for time. Maybe he can get it elsewhere and be a nice player. And yes, not having Rob Jeter on staff anymore, a young African American role model probably didn't help him understand his situation more.
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Commuters would not be Lindell apt people. Commuters commute from home which is not on or near campus.
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I think Hansbrough is a very good player, robotic like work ethic. I wasn't comparing his athleticism to IV. I was saying in general imo he isn't a great or very good athlete, doesn't mean I don't think he isn't a very good college player. I think he is a smart player, who while shooting the ball very low inside for example, finds ways to not get his shot blocked. He needs to develop more low post moves to get to the next level...6'8 guys that just try to bull their way with strength and work ethic in college, need more than that in the NBA. He has soft touch around the rim, giving up at least a couple of inches to IV. I never compared him to IV. I don't think TH is a bad athlete, just not a great one. Sure he might simply out muscle IV inside, or even outhustle and dominate in the game...but he isn't going to be more successful because he is a much better athlete...imo. He works hard all the time to try to get better in as many areas as he can.
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I don't think TH is very athletic, and IV does have a few inches on him. Concerns are IV not being aggressive enough, and fit enough. TH is a work out machine, very fit, hard worker, but very athletic is not something that comes to mind when I think of him. He has a soft touch around the rim.
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I would go right at him on offense, attack him, and the glass. He is super aggressive and will be even more hyped up for the game than usual(if that is possible). IV has to be aggressive and use his length, especially on defense, block a shot or two early, use the size advantage...Hansbrough is only 6'8 but uses his strength and aggressiveness to play bigger. If you block his shot early he will get frustrated and try to bull his way through. He lacks a lot of great post moves and attacks glass with strength and determination and uses it for space to spot up for 10-12 footers. Aggressive atheltic bigs can give him trouble. Double him and swarm him early. He isn't very athletic. Great college player. Great opportunity for IV to show what he's got.
Watch some Josh Hytvelt tape from Gonzaga dominating him this year.
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>Feed him a left-over box lunch from the soccer final four
>tonight.
Very funny.
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Just yesterday or this week, you accused another poster of being obsessed with your posts. Hey Pot you're black.
Again, I don't have these problems with ANY other poster. You came after me because I didn't do cartwheels impressive enough for you in SLU's win over Tennessee-Martin or Missouri St. You can't accept any objective posting which is critical of SLU, or puts any other school or topic you don't light in a positive manner. I.E. you have hatred for Mizzou, Marquette, etc..and many other things. And you just couldn't get over the fact at the time that I said Dwyane Wade was better than Marque Perry when you said the opposite, and you also said Chris Braun was better than Steve Novak. I disagreed and you couldn't take it then nor now. SLU doesn't play Marquette or Missouri, or Cincy or some other teams you cannot stand....so I don't post about those topics. It is a SLU board, and I primarily post about SLU, or relevant topics. This is why it is so much easier to post regarding SLU soccer. Too many instigators on the basketball threads. If you honestly thought SLU had good spacing, ball movement and reversal on offense against MSU or lately, then that is fine, that is your opinion, it isn't mine.
I never posted on Mark McGwire. And I do enjoy posting with Alameda Bob, the kindest poster here, and Bay Area Billiken because they are good posters, who live in a great area and can keep me updated on some things out there. You don't have to read or respond to every thread or post.
If people don't hold your views, you instigate, and many times it leads to you pouting like a baby. And plenty of indivisual posters on here know who I am individually. SluSign guy who moderates this board, prefers his own anonymity as he has posted many times, as do many other posters. Often times I fly into town just to make to games.
You instigated this whole thing once again, because you didn't like my posts and accused me of being negative or not enjoying the wins over UTMartin or MSU enough. I commented where I disagreed, and you always have to take it to another level.
Unlike you I don't have to name call. I could very easily if you like, post on all the threads where you don't play well with others. Up until now, I have stayed out of those...but since you still do not see your ways, I would be happy to point them out.
Everyone on here has the right to post whatever they want regarding relevant topics, as long as they follow the rules. And, they should be able to do so without attacks, issue or problem.
You even asked in a thread about a week or two ago about Brad not enjoying recruiting and the game of it. I posted that he told me so. Didn't make a big deal of it and it isn't. You asked, I answered, and we can all move on. I wish he had a different answer frankly. Everyone on here roots for SLU, even the wackos. I even clap and stand and stomp my feet and yell and scream and everything, ...I just don't need to do it on a message board.
As Bob Knight once said, "We all graduate from the 2nd grade, some of us go on to bigger and better things."
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...And that is why you just had to post in response to my comments, just couldn't let it go. just couldn't resist.
You pick fights with anyone and everyone on the board. When it comes my way as it inevitably does with you and anyone on this board every so often...your bullying nonsense won't fly. If only I had a nickel for how many times you have bantered childlishly on this board, perhaps I'd buy the naming rights for the new SLU Arena and call it the "You have to agree with everything Roy says, and act like a middle-aged infantile" Dome. Maybe I will pay extra for dollar signs that light up every "s", and we will build it in Belleville, and we will retire Chris Braun's jersey and have it be the first in the ring of fame.
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One of best brunches in Chicago. Everyone just gets the buffet. It will definitely not disappoint. Back room gets a wait late morning Sat and Sun. Front room is sit where you want and grab table. They have pretty much anything you want.(fabulous waffles btw and omlettes btw) ...also a nice place to stop for a drink....etc...but it is a gem for weekend brunch.
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>This is a super opportunity for our team with the first
>sellout in quite some time. If our guys can deliver with a
>big win (I realize we will have to bring our A game and UNC
>will have to have an off night) it would be huge for the
>program. I will be rooting at a local sports bar if I can
>find one that will put it on.
Just call around...ANY place that calls themselves a sports bar would get ESPNU...and Friday nnight shouldn't have too much other programming.
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Only a matter of time with you Roy. You get into it with 90% of the people on this board and the other 10% ignore you. You only like people who do rah rah cartwheels with blue colored glasses on the board, or hold the same opinions as yours on other topics. You are an extremely opinionated person, as am I and many other people, but the difference is you can't handle opinions that differ from yours without emotions getting the best of you. If you have read oh about a dozen of my posts before and after the game, I predicted SLU to win, and said a win is a win several times, and that is all that matters. As I just said in my post, it was a good win for SLU. I didn't find a lot attractive about the game. It was a good win for SLU, but an ugly win. If you can't see that beyond your bias, I can understand that. Wouldn't be the first time nor last. SLU played poorly, and MSU, like it or not let them back in the game on their own many times, as well as SLU creating their own opportunities.
What "bothers the hell out of you" is when anybody on the board disagrees with you. That is your problem, not mine. You won't be affecting my posts. I don't seem to have this problem with other posters, just you. And you seem to have this problem with a lot of posters. SLU found a way to win an ugly game, which was an important win for SLU. MANY other posters metioned the anemic offense, or turnovers, etc...
I do my rooting at games, not on a message board. I go to plenty of SLU games in multiple sports for decades and root just fine. Funny, we don't get these problems in our soccer threads. Everyone roots for the team, speaks intelligently, objectively, and even disagrees from time to time in a respectful manner. You won't find me writing dollar signs when I spell Missouri etc...that just isn't going to happen. It isn't objective. I'm objective, you're not. And that is fine. I was disappointed with IV's 6 turovers in a yet another game, needs to be cleaned up, but he did some other things very well.
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Why do you listen to Kevin Slaten if you dislike him so much. It can'tbe entertaining for you. Just don'tlisten to him. ...As for the game, 22 turnovers, not a lot of flow, very low scoring, it was an ugly game. And it will not be a game that will generate much interest from non-observers or even casual observers. It was a good win for SLU. But it was ugly.
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Make sure you hit Stanley's Kitchen for brunch the next day, longtime favorite of mine. It is excellent.
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Just saying it is a different experience. If you have never been to Chapel Hill...just sayin'
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>sure they called fouls, but not enough. you cant let
>mi$$ouri play like that. pushing, pulling, holding,
>slapping, that isnt basketball. but sadly it has become
>closer to the norm.
>
>i have always said, call EVERYTHING. the rule book defines
>fouls, call what is in the rule book. if you want a copy of
>the rules courtside, i am sure i can find it for you on the
>internet. why cant refs call the rules as written?
Sad and unneccessary that you have to be a dick with everyone on theboard at one time or another. Gee BillikenRoy could you please please explain the rules of basketball because I don't understand them...oh goody gee. Thanks.
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Not sure how many Carolina fans would show couple of days before Christmas vs SLU....but often times bars in that neighborhood...colleges have their own bar and it get pretty raucous and crowded with that school's fans...if it isn't something you want to deal with....you could try a Kincaid's or wherever....etc..Not sure of UNC's support there....if it were Big Ten or even the likes of Dayton etc..and others, wouldn't want to go to opposing school's bar. Not worth the hassle. But UNC, ...perhaps some recent co-ed grads in the house, and that DEFINITELY isn't SLU. ;-)
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>I don't know what will happen. I would guess that they
>would sign a similiar deal since Bo is in favor of playing
>those games. I would guess that Wisconsin would get a
>similar deal.
>
>Marquette finally signed a similar deal (5 year with UWM
>hosting one year) with UWM.
>I don't know what will happen. I would guess that they
>would sign a similiar deal since Bo is in favor of playing
>those games. I would guess that Wisconsin would get a
>similar deal.
>
>Marquette finally signed a similar deal (5 year with UWM
>hosting one year) with UWM.
Yep that is what I was looking for. It is somewhat misleading to say all of the UW schools play each other etc...not on equal footing. They ae 4 and 1's. UWM didn't want to play Marquette on a 4 and 1 and wanted more money than Bucky, so they didn't play for a while. UWM wanted a better deal than what UW gives and Marquette offered same deal. UWM said no. i.e. ..Regardless, I don't think Missouri St. would play 4 and 1's etc...with SLU or Mizzou. It is rather easy to come on hear and say a school or schools play the other teams in state when they are 4 and 1's.(Missouri, SLU, Missouri St. are more ideal for home and homes)
I have a question Bucky. When Soderberg coached at Madison, he had one year as head coach, made the NCAA's. Prior, as assistant to Dick Bennett, team made the Final Four, albeit with 6th place conference team and cindarella run...but every time I hear from Madison people, they are relentless with their dislike of Soderberg (as coach, not person). I was curious why this was so. I know when he was assistant Badegers won 20 games for first time EVER in school's program.(found that stat hard to believe myself, never haveing won 20 games prior) He had all of one season and was run out of town, coming off of the 6th place season prior to his being head coach.
PD showing LM some love
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
>All the article showed is that we have a tough guy limited
>athlete who is playing only because Brad has not been able
>to recruit anybody better. Cudos to Luke for playing over
>his head but you got to question Brad's recruiting results.
>I agree nice article but look past the feel good part and
>you see the painful truth.
Yes indeed.