sludevil
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Posts posted by sludevil
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Well, let's see. TL was headed to Wash St (PAC 12), AY a Nova Transfer that Pitt wanted, the previously mentioned Bartley, Roby, and Jolly, RA supposedly had interest from Duke. Not sure who was after MY, MR, and Gilliam. Overall, not too bad. Granted we've lost some locals we wished had stayed home, and a few others who chose BCS'ers. Let's wait and see how this works.
That kind of proves ChosenOne's point, though, right? We beat out Washington State and a Pitt team that probably couldn't promise the kid much playing time (at least, relative to us)? That's something, I guess, but not much. I agree with you that I think we're headed in the right direction. But we also have a lot to offer kids - tournament appearances, a beautiful new arena, greater fan support, etc. - so I think we should expect the staff to really start entering into and winning recruiting battles for higher-rated recruits. That we're in it with Tatum I think says a lot, so hopefully we'll continue that assertiveness on the recruiting trail.
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Yes. Spot on. He has all offers. Offers to him are essentially meaningless.
Right. Offers are meaningful only as a count of which teams are actually involved in his recruitment. Stony Brook (e.g.) hasn't offered because they have no realistic shot at landing him. But if it turns out Tatum's just in it for the lulz and he calls up Stony Brook asking to play for them, they'll have him signed up on full scholarship before he hangs up the phone.
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Kid can play a little bit of basketball.
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^ Yup, just last season PJ Hairston jumped to the D-League after being kicked out of that school in Chapel Hill, and was subsequently drafted by the Hornets. Problem with the D-League, though, is that the pay is so low, and the national exposure (relative to college ball) is nonexistent. If you're going to turn down college ball and everything that goes with it, you're probably going to need more than $30k in compensation.
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It doesn't matter. Poor kids are going to ask themselves why should I go help make a coach rich instead of helping my family right away. Many are going to go for the money and I can't blame them.
I'm inclined to agree, but I can't get my head around why more kids aren't already doing this. Is it the bad reputation? Hell, even if everything Brandon Jennings had to say about playing overseas is true, that's still $1.2M. For one year. I would do some terrible things for $1.2M.
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Mudiay didn't have a choice. He wasn't going to qualify
Right.
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Tatum could go anywhere and be a top 10 pick if he stays on his current trajectory. He could go to UMSL and accomplish that.
Or head over to China for a cool $1.2M. Mudiay has the right idea, even if it's for the wrong reasons.
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Do you have any reasoning for this last point?
The mom is very much interested in Jayson's education. So I could see her liking a school like Duke or UNC, but that said there are plenty of reasons to believe she likes SLU and is a fan of the idea of jayson staying home.
Re: mom: info comes from sources close to recruitment. She's certainly not opposed to him going to SLU - she's not "blue blood" or bust, as some parents are, and I think she'd be thrilled if he stayed close to home. But I think she'd be thrilled if he ended up at a Duke or UNC, too.
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For what it's worth, my take on dad is that he's really gung-ho on SLU and wants us to just be crushing his son's recruitment. (I think there's a tendency to be a little more critical of the school you love when the stakes are high and the competition is intense.) And for one reason or another, we're not clearly ahead in Jayson's recruitment. So I think that - mixed with our recent history of backing off on top local recruits - is the impetus for dad's comments.
To that point, though, I don't think mom is quite as gung-ho on SLU as some on this board seem to believe.
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I certainly remember certain posters freaking out about those losses and assuming we wouldn't have a good year because of them.
As for them not making the dance, well those darn NCAA rules that only allow NCAA teams to participate may have been a contributing factor...
In fairness, if they really are the Duke of Canada, they would've been knocked out by a 12 in the first round anyway.
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I just don't see a package deal happening with Tatum. Duke and UNC certainly hope it'll happen, but the way these kids talk about it - very noncommittal, as though it's mostly just a fun scenario to consider - makes me think teaming up with Giles et al. won't be a major consideration when push comes to shove.
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All I know is that at this point I am excited by where we are at with Tatum (based merely on reports). From quotes, it is clear that we are high on his list, that he understands the reasons for staying home at SLU, and that he is apparently receiving pressure from those close to him to stay in town. That is all you can ask at this point.
But man is it going to be a difficult task to actually close the deal. He is going to have weekends of being wined and dined by the most elite programs in the country and hear sales pitches from the top coaches in country. An elite recruit turning that down for the hometown mid major does not happen often. Lets hope Jayson is one that does and becomes a Billiken legend.
Agreed on both points. And, in fairness, it's pretty common for an elite recruit to keep a solid hometown program on his short list (at least, publicly), simply as a nod to his hometown community. But two things:
1) In the past, we typically weren't even on that short list. So I think just being in the mix with Jayson is both a show of SLU's increased emphasis on recruiting and of our growing legitimacy with top recruits.
2) With that said, though, we are definitely a real contender for Tatum. None of the national recruiting guys seem to give us much love (that a SLU could win out over a Kentucky is just unthinkable! also, what's a Billiken??), but the guys who are actually recruiting Jayson know we're here.
I agree that the smart money is still definitely against us when the field has names like Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC, and every other program that's won a championship in the last 20 years. But we seem to be in a pretty good spot nonetheless, and, if nothing else, it'll be a lot of fun watching this develop.
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Would probably open some eyes in the Big East, too.
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Speaking of hiring a recruit's father in order to sway that recruit: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11222556/memphis-tigers-expected-hire-keelon-lawson-assistant-coach
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I appreciate being optimistic about this bunch of recruits, but most of the guys we're talking about in this hypothetical Final Four contender have played limited or no minutes in college. And the guys who haven't played are good but not great recruits. There's reason to be optimistic, sure, but we're talking about a ton that has to happen in the next year or two for us to be in the Final Four discussion. And while the coaching staff has done pretty well with developing talent the last several years, we'd need more still (in addition to landing Tatum) if we're talking realistic final four/championship hopes.
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Based on interviews, Jayson understands the draw to SLU and the unique opportunity he would have here.
If winning a National Championship is a priority for him, he will not be coming to SLU.
Agree completely.
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I don't understand why some fans look down on athletes for chasing the money. I would chase the money, too. Money is awesome. And this is their profession; if someone offered you a big raise at another company, you wouldn't take it? Maybe I'm just greedy.
But to add something substantive to this post: UConn just offered Tatum. Because hell, why not. Although if he's going to leave the region, I can't imagine him picking UConn over Duke, UNC, or Florida.
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Hopefully they've been able to talk a lot over the last few days about playing for the hometown. (And Lebron must REALLY love playing for the hometown, given what happened in 2010.)
Also, Lebron, Kyrie, and Love would make a hell of a big three.
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Will you be sure to let us know when it is ok to place odds. Thanks.
lol ok buddy. In all seriousness, though, right now it's just blind guessing and reading tea leaves. I guess it's the offseason, so anything goes. But it still feels like a lesson in futility trying to handicap things at this point. If that's how you get your kicks, though, then go for it I guess.
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It's way too early to be placing odds. We appear to be a real contender, which is as good as anyone could hope for at this point.
Also, the kid's apparently putting on quite a show at LBJ. Although one look at the coaches (and their high-profile friends) in attendance will tell you everything you need to know about how difficult it's going to be to land Tatum. But we're in the race, and hopefully Crews & co. are prepared to stay in the race.
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Look, I hope we land the #1 recruit in the country, but you have to admit this is a very, very, very long shot.
It is. But, at worst, this is good publicity for our program. Word gets around quickly about who is considering what schools, which schools offered which players, etc. To be a real contender for a kid like Tatum is going to put our program on the map for some kids, and reinforce our program's positive momentum in the minds of others. So maybe we pull off the huge upset and land Tatum. Or, more likely, maybe a strong showing in his recruitment helps us land a quality recruit or two on the back end. There's a lot of upside either way.
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Tatum sometimes tweets back and forth with Roby as well. Obviously, can't hurt to have a few guys he knows on the team.
Someone should tweet this article to Tatum:
Data suggests top-10 prospects are virtually guaranteed to make NBADoesn't matter where you go to school as a top 10 prospect, you are basically already an NBA player. Might as well stay home.
Also, when Calipari gets credit for putting so many players in the NBA. Feel free to call bullcrap because a majority of those guys were already NBAers.
Agreed re: Calipari. He's a great recruiter, but he doesn't really develop talent. Guys coming out of Kentucky generally aren't much better than they were going in to Kentucky. And, hell, one of the guys mentioned in that article (Poythress) is a pretty compelling argument for not going to Kentucky: Poythress was a stud coming out of high school, then would've probably gone in the lottery had he left after his first year. But he stayed, and Calipari brought in a new stable of top recruits, all of whom wanted playing time. So Poythress had his time cut and regressed as a player, to the point where he was probably a (late?) second round talent after this last year. Now Calipari is bringing in a new stable, and the process looks like it's going to play out again, with Poythress (unless he has a hell of a bounce-back year) probably falling out of the draft completely after this season.
That's the risk you take with Calipari. If you stay, you can be guaranteed that he'll have at least one or two guys coming in behind you who want (and will probably be given) your minutes.
And for what it's worth, a similar storyline just played itself out over at UNC (another Tatum contender). There, it wasn't so much that McAdoo was crowded out by top recruits, but that he just never really developed as expected, and Roy kept getting him to come back to school. He would've been lottery after his first year, but finally went undrafted last month. That's a lot of money left on the table.
On the other hand, SLU has done pretty well with developing talent in recent years. And I feel pretty confident that 1) Tatum wouldn't be crowded out by a new wave of top-10 prospects and 2) Crews wouldn't lean on Tatum to stay if he had a lottery slot lined up. So, hey, something to think about.
(I'm not usually into bashing other programs - especially in the recruiting context - but I think it's a pretty big deal when these kids are leaving millions on the table unnecessarily. That's life-changing money.)
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Miller not making a Final Four feels as fluky as Marshall making a Final Four. (Sometimes you get lucky/unlucky with seeding. Or sometimes your team just gets hot at the right time. I don't think Miller's brother is a top coach for that reason.) Though, yeah, it's definitely a hit against Miller and a plus for Marshall. But with the way Miller has things rolling at Arizona, the Final Four drought should be ending in the near future (from my perspective, Arizona, Wisconsin, and Kentucky look like the three teams most likely to pick up a championship this season). If we're basing things purely on wins (regardless of competition level), then you'd have to put Marshall before Miller. But if we're talking about the best coaches, or the coach I'd take right now to head my program, then I'd need to see more from Marshall before picking him over Miller.
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Beilein is a good, but not great, coach. He's very good at developing talent, but doesn't recruit at an elite level.These last two seasons at Michigan were definitely a peak, but he's set up for a rough season ahead, and, with that great class of 2012 gone, I'd imagine he'll stay more grounded for a little while.
Marshall may be great, but I'm just not ready to anoint the guy yet. He plays in a bad conference, and he's enjoyed some favorable breaks. Let's give him some more time (probably at a bigger program) to prove that his success is sustainable. (He sort of reminds me of Shaka Smart in that he's a mid-major guy that everyone goes crazy about. But Shaka's "havoc" system puts a definite ceiling on his potential - in that it puts a ceiling on his recruiting ability. Marshall doesn't have the same system problem, but a lot still has to happen for his recent success to remain sustainable.)
Calipari deserves on this list. He's made the Final Four three of the last four seasons. He was the runner-up last year (a year in which he knocked out Gregg Marshall's Shockers...) and won the title just a few years ago. He has also been the best recruiter over that period of time. He isn't a good Xs-and-Os coach, but he does just about everything else.
K, as I've said earlier, is a debatable case for top 5. I'd probably put him on the outside, though a lot will turn on how this incoming class performs.
OT: Mizzou to hire Kim
in Billikens.com Main Board
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+1.