Curios

Excellent post and a thoughtful explanation. I agree... On Shaun Livingston, though, the local team would have been Bradley (not Illinois). Imagine if all the Peoria players stayed home to play basketball! BU would be a top 15 team regularly.

“But the main point is: look at the size of those five crowds I listed and look at who the opposition was for that night. Those huge crowds turned out to see THE BILLIKENS. They didn't give a damn who they were playing. They came to see highmark, claggett, waldman, hughes, etc.. They guys in white and blue.†No question there is a lot of validity in this summary. Winning builds crowds, and winning big builds big crowds. However, I also think the quick development of regional rivals and a heavy concentration of their fans in the local area would really help attendance. SLU only averaged 8030 in attendance last year. Considering the area population, that is sad. Creighton averaged over 11,000 and Bradley over 9,000 (in a metro area that is 1/8 that of St. Louis). In fact, this figure (9,000) is about the Bradley minimum regardless of the team’s record. Having regional rivals – especially those that boost attendance themselves – would help both raise and stabilize the attendance. Not only when SLU has an excellent team, but to create a BASE of 8,000+.

Curios, imo, it would have been a less difficult task for SLU to get to and stay consistently in the top three spots of the MVC....than get to and stay in the top three spots of the A-10. <> Again, my main point was that LS seems a good fit with SLU, but now is getting looks from the prettiest girls at the dance. Similarly, SLU would have fit nicely with the MVC with local competition, much less travel, some private schools that are similar academically (Bradley, Creighton, Drake, and Evansville), the development of rivalries and so forth. However, SLU obviously thought they could achieve more. I just think their fans with these feelings should be more understanding of a player who is now doing the very same thing. I have seen Lance play quite a bit and have talked with him a number of times. I think he is a high quality person, I like him a lot, and I wish him the best. I think he can be a contributing member of a solid mid-major program, but I do not think he will play much of a role at a high-major program. Similarly, I think SLU could have been a contributing member of the MVC…

>No doubt, not in the top 6? > >SLU beat SIUC, right? SIUC was in the top 6, right? > >based on the limited evidence in front of us, your >conjecture is pretty silly. Obviously, it's impossible to >accurately extrapolate from this one game, but your >statements that it is probably not true that SLU could >compete in the MVC and that SLU would no doubt not be in the >top 6 this past year are laughable. Yes, no doubt not in the top 6 last year. Over the last ten games, all against SIU and MSU, SLU is 4-6 having lost every road game. I think from that you can say they are "competitive." In fact, it seems like a great match and a good fit. I did not mean for this to get so far away from the Lance Stemler discussion. It seemed that people were pointing out the SLU had much to offer and LS could do quite well at SLU. My point was that argument is very much like the argument for SLU to join the MVC. SLU fans seem to think that is a bad idea - that SLU can do much better. I believe that is the same feeling that LS has - nothing wrong with SLU, but there is a larger stage for me. In fact, SLU would have fit very nicely in the MVC and LS would likely fit very nicely at SLU.

you imply that slu cannot compete with local guys. I want you to show us evidence that this is true. I also want you to show us evidence that slu has benifited from passing up key local guys. I also mean in-state guys as well in this. This part makes no sense to me. I absolutely believe that SLU could be nationally competitive if they got all the St Louis kids. Similarly, DePaul would be one of the top three teams in the country if they got all the Chicago kids they wanted....but it is obviously not going to happen, if for no other reason that kids often want to go away. I am not sure how competitive SLU would be in the MVC. No doubt, not in the top six this year, but perhaps competitive in the long run. The question was more that it seems SLU made a decision regarding the MVC/A10 that is very similar to what Stemler is facing now - "Gee, there is nothing wrong with SLU, but there may be a higher profile place for me." That is not necessarily the same as "the best place for me." I think that LS would fit in well at SLU and be productive and happy. I also think that SLU in the MVC would have resulted in great rivalries and large crowds - there would probably be 5000 SIU fans and 3000 MSU fans show up for those games alone.

> > I'm just as frustrated at some of slu's area recruiting as >others on this board, BUT in this case, the ball is in >lance's court. the bottom line is that the offer has been >made and we have the most to offer and that is a chance to >step in immediately and be an impact player on a team that >has a good chance to go to the postseason. he would be a big >missing piece. > lance is getting hit up by some big-timers, but he has to >think as well. he cannot afford to make a mistake in his >choice. remember, he has already been at the division I >level and the juco level. if he makes the wrong choice >(doesn't get enough playing time, doesn't like demanding >coach, etc..), then he is stuck as far as division I goes. >He just cannot up and transfer. > he has to make that decision count. the bottom line. he >has a chance to step in a be a 30+ minute player at slu on a >team that has a big center that commands double and triple >teams regularly as well as a big slashing guard that draws >defenses like flies with his penetration, plus he rebounds >as well as any guard in the country. > that means he will have open looks galore with his >perimeter shooting, plus the chance to score inside with his >little baby hook against single coverage. He has a chance to >start, be an immediate impact player on a potential >tournament team and do it in his backyard in front of >friends and family on a nightly basis with a bunch of >players who like him are from this neck of the woods. > If these are the things that LS is looking for in his next >destination, the choice is easy from where I sit. If not, >god bless him. > last year, SLU went head to head with charlotte for a juco >power forward named courtney williams, who is about 6-9 and >230. he had a chance to step in and play about 35 minutes a >game at PF for the Billikens. instead, he listened to >everyone in his ear about how bad slu was and how great >charlotte was and how he was going to be a stud. Instead of >looking at where he would fit in and how much he would play, >CW went for the hype, let others influence his decision and >chose charlotte. guess what, they had an AA named withers at >his position, plus four other big guys. CW played about >eight minutes a game and had several DNP's on his resume. By >the way, the billikens won at charlotte and I don't think CW >played that much. > these are things to think about when you are a juco and >are making that decision. > at some point, common sense has to come into play. > > >bad boyz for life I know this is way off topic...in some ways. However, how do you all feel about SLU going to the A10 instead of the MVC? I think many of the arguments you are making for LS going to SLU are very similar to what a person would make for the match with SLU and the MVC - you can fit in with local guys, you can compete (which is probably not true, but still a reasonable argument), you are wanted, and so forth. Instead, it seems that LS is waiting for a "bigger pond"...similar to what SLU did.