troutangler
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Posts posted by troutangler
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The SLU argument about "We're going to be loaded next year and MSU is going to be down, so that's why they're dropping us" is hilarious. I posted this the other day and I will again: WE PUT OUR WORST TEAM ON THE COURT IN 30 YEARS (SINCE GOING D1) THREE YEARS AGO AT HAMMONS CENTER AND STILL WON. We are 16-7 against you guys. Don't you think we were down at some point in this 23-game stretch? We weren't afraid to play you then, so why would we be now?
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It's pretty bad when your chest-thumping win against us came from a (not) buzzer beater that was actually after the buzzer.
At least our old arena that had been around for 30+ years had clocks that functioned correctly. You geniuses with that great SLU education can't even sync a basketball clock.
And yes, SLU has used the "We have mostly freshman" excuse for four years now. It was the same way when they came here the last time three years ago in Barry's last season and we beat them with probably our worst team since we went D1.
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Went over to the Missouri State board to see what they were saying about the game...The bold gave me a chuckle.
Originally Posted by The Valley Bear
According to the SLU board, the school has a chartered bus of fans coming down.
I saw that. I wonder if John Stamos is coming with them since he is supposedly a huge Bills fan. Which is absurd. I can't stand SLU or their fans. They had fans harassing the Jacksonville U team after the game calling them "thugs" etc for no real reason. Then you have someone on their board with a handle derogatory towards Puerto Ricans which is flat out offensive. Outrageous.
For the record, that was a Mizzou fan who said that. Either way, I share his contempt for SLU.
We don't think we're better than them, we KNOW it.
Yeah, your record against us has really proven that too.
How about:
"Springfield Missouri....We may be rated as one of the 10 worst places to raise a family but we did beat out Dayton Ohio, Flint Michigan, Corpus Chirsti Texas and I would imagine its even better than Compton California.
Springfield Missouri....Don't worry most STD's wont kill ya."
Well we aren't the most dangerous city in the U.S., but we try.
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You're going down!
I guess we will see.
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I cannot go (so I really have no basis for saying this or being disappointed if it doesn't happen), but it would be totally awesome if we could get a huge contingent of SLU fans down to Springfield for this game after the debacle at Chaifetz last year with a student section mostly full of MO State fans. I'm sure MO State is on break down too and I'm guessing not very many students actually live in Springfield, so the crowd should be weak. Springfield isn't a bad drive and its not like SLU students have better things to do now that they are on Christmas break.
The biggest groups of MSU students are from southwest Missouri and St. Louis, so a large number do in fact live within an hour or so of Springfield. The student section was almost full last year on New Year's Day against Illinois State during Christmas Break, but that was partly because they sold tickets to the general public.
The crowd as a whole shouldn't be weak. We're hoping it's our best crowd of the year since we haven't played anyone worth a damn at home yet this year and SLU is a regional rival.
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Just an FYI...Fuehrmeyer isn't just the only senior who gets minutes, he is the only senior on the team. Hell, we recruited the JUCO national Player of the Year (Ricks, #2) to come here and play point guard and Fuehrmeyer is still playing more than he is. He doesn't really do much...usually gets 3-4 assists per game, 3-4 points, and turns it over a couple of times, all the while being poor defensively, but they still play him a ton.
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Yeah, because if you were 9-0 you wouldn't be the same way. Heck, you are 6-3 and more big headed than anyone.
We are excited this year because of the previous 9 years. But we were so bad that we still kicked the crap out of you guys most of the time. Ouch
Didn't we beat SLU two years ago at home, which was Barry's last year? That was a pretty subpar Bears team, and didn't you guys still have Lisch/Liddell, etc?
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Oh wow. I guess we shouldn't even play this game. Without Kwam and with those three beasts on your side. We have no chance. You win.
Well I was mainly pointing out that we're not inferior in size in the frontcourt, but okay.
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I actually go off of what the 'Wiz' says the spread is. He said we were 2 point underdogs with KM, so without him, that increases significantly. The Wiz is usually pretty accurate, but I hope he isn't tonight and SLU comes away with the victory.
I don't know who the Wiz is but SLU was a 1.5 point favorite last night. Now MSU is a 1 point favorite, probably because of Mitchell's injury.
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With Kwamain, I feel very comfortable saying we win this game. We're too big inside for Mo. State and KM will beat the pressure. It's a completely different team with and without KM. Without KM, we'll turn the ball over too much to take advantage of our strength inside.
You do realize we have three guys 6'9"-6'11", right? Obviously they don't all play at once, but we aren't a high school team.
I'm also pumped to see how we handle this. Like you said, let's hope our guys are looking at this as an opportunity to step up, and not worrying about not having KM. Every athelte should cherish this opportunity and be excited to try to step it up a notch. As a fan, I'm really excited to get behind our young guys and give them that extra boost. We are certainly the underdog now, and everyone loves the underdog. We will definitely do our part as fans.
I would love to see Wilie just go nuts like you said, and if his stamina holds up, he obviously has the capability to do that. Can't wait for tonight. See you in 108.
Actually you guys are 1.5 point favorites still, not the underdog.
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In a way im very frustrated because if we had KM I am very confident we would win. However, I also kind of pumped because this is everyone on the teams chance to see who has the balls to step up. I predict BC almost getting pissed from the start and throwing around whoever that 6'6 dude is that guarding him. I think CS will step up, Femi will play decent. What it revolves around is Reed. I could see him seeing this as his time to shine and just going nuts and dominating.
I think this will be my decision day on KC. Sometimes he frustrates me so much because I know he could be good but he plays like a freshman in high school. I'm hoping this is the game where he comes out and says I KM is out and I need to step up.
If we win tomorrow, which I think there is a chance but a lot of if's, then that will show unbelievably well for our future.
If you're talking about Weems, I doubt that will happen.
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Sometimes you need the right guy at the right place. Moser had great recruits at ISU and now he's had Majerus' tutelage for a few years plus he'll be at SLU a better place than Normal IL with great facilities so things are a bit different than before.
His recruits at ISU were....ehhh.
Even though they play a horrible non-conference schedule, Jank's talent level is better than Moser's was when he was there.
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Maybe if C. Martin does well in the minor leagues we can choose between him and Moser when Majerus retires/goes into spaghetti-ohs coma.
Spanking SMS will not end the debate it will never end. Most just can't help themselves when that bi-weekly thread is posted.
There's a difference: Cuonzo looks like he'll be a successful Valley coach, something that can't be said for Moser.
He'll be back in the Big 10 or another BCS school before you have a chance at him.
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I am confused, I have ever seen "violations" listed in any box score. How is one called? Please explain further.
The ball going out of bounds is a violation. Traveling is a violation. Excessively swinging the elbows while holding the ball is a violation. ("Clearing out" defenders)
I'm with you IF no contact is made. Elbows in or elbows out I have never seen a call made when there was no contact. Possibly Art 1 could provide the opportunity to make a call regardless of contact "nor use any unreasonably rough tactics" However, I would tent to agree with you, no contact no foul. If the ref was behind the player when he swung his elbows and the opponent fell back, I can see where the ref could easily believe contact was made and I don't think you could argue that. I would think though, that one of the other 2 officials would have had a better angle and would have seen that contact wasn't made.
Article 1 that you reference is for personal fouls. Excessively swinging the elbows is a violation by the player holding the ball. If there was no contact and a foul was called, he missed the call. It should have been a no call or a violation for swinging the elbows.
Player 1 throws a punch, player 2 ducks and the punch misses, is it still a foul. I say yes. I'd say the unreasonably rough tactics covers that. Maybe he felt the elbow was so flagrant it wasn't any different than a punch.
Throwing a punch would get you a flagrant personal (live ball) or flagrant technical (dead ball) foul. Anything deemed a flagrant foul is an ejection. That list that is posted above is for common fouls, not flagrant fouls.
I like the grey area discussion, Skip. To answer your question, I think if a player throws a punch and misses, it should be a technical foul, which is different from the standard player foul. I would liken Conklin's play more to calling a reach-in when no contact was actually made.
Throwing a punch and even missing would be a flagrant personal or technical foul.
There is no such thing as a reach-in.
I would compare an agressively thrown elbow as closer to a punch than to a reach in. I would agree about it being a tech, but Art 1 did leave the door open.
An elbow thrown while holding the ball that makes contact is going to be a common personal foul 99% of the time. If not, it could rise to the level of an intentional foul.
You guys need to brush up on your definitions.
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I'm not saying using your elbows isn't a foul, I just don't think the term "excessive" applies here. What Conklin did was what many players do, pivot with elbows out.
Again, this completely ignores the fact that he didn't touch the guy, meaning it wasn't a foul. In case there is any confusion, here's the NBA's rules and regulatins on fouls. It's pretty clear that "physical contact" is necessary.
Section D - Fouls
1. A common personal foul is illegal physical contact which occurs with an opponent after the ball has become live.
2. A technical foul is the penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct or violations by team members on the floor or seated on the bench. It may be assessed for illegal contact which occurs with an opponent before the ball becomes live.
3. A double foul is a situation in which two opponents commit personal or technical fouls against each other at approximately the same time.
4. An offensive foul is illegal contact, committed by an offensive player, after the ball is live.
5. A loose ball foul is illegal contact, after the ball is alive, when team control does not exist.
6. An elbow foul is making contact with the elbow in an unsportsmanlike manner whether the ball is dead or alive.
7. A flagrant foul is unnecessary and/or excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent whether the ball is dead or alive as stated in nba basketball rules.
8. A punching foul is a punch by a player which makes contact with an opponent whether the ball is dead or alive.
9. An away-from-the-play foul is illegal contact by the defense in the last two minutes of the game, and/or overtime, which occurs (1) deliberately away from the immediate area of offensive action, and/or (2) prior to the ball being released on a throw-in.
NBA rules are waaaaaay different than high school or NCAA rules. NCAA rules are much closer aligned with high school rules than with the NBA. You might as well trash your NBA rules.
Excessively swinging the elbows is a violation in high school, and I'm 99% sure it's the same under NCAA rules. If no contact is made, but a player "clears out" the opponent by extending their elbows, a violation (Not a foul) can be called.
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I prefer the nomenclature "Branson U."
Wow, how original. Did you get that from Mizzou or Tulsa? Maybe Wichita State?
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Are you suggesting that these refs did a good job last night? They were out of position and made many bad calls with a slow whistle when things were getting out of hand and a super fast whistle against us after the Belmont coaches complained. They were not well coordinated and they were definitely not the quality of ref that we should expect for our home games if we get to pick the referees.
A slow whistle is a good thing.
When I look at whether or not referees did a "good job", the last place I check is the opinions of fans.
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trout, do you know if southwest missouri is already done with exams or are they still in class today, tomorrow? the reason i ask is i am just curious if southwest missouri will come in a day or two early for their super bowl game.
Roy,
Missouri State University is done with finals today. All the players will be done by this afternoon if not earlier.
"Super Bowl game" or not, we're still 15-7 against you guys. (16-6 if not for the clock malfunction)
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The problem with blowing your whistle to often and early as they were doing is the kids get frustrated and figure if they are going to get called for a foul then it might as well be for a hard one. Refs need to call fouls when necessary but not get whistle happy on the petty stuff. While they did not do a good job it is still a tough role to fill. I knew we were in trouble with the refs when the one ref from half court over ruled the other ref on a ball that went out of bounds at the baseline where he was standing only a few feet away from. It was off to the races after that.
This is simply not true. If a game is physical, and the whistle is blown often, players will adjust if they don't want to foul out eventually.
If you clean up the "petty stuff", you can avoid the bigger crap later.
The official at half court may have "overruled" the other official because the ball went out of bounds on his line, or because the official responsible for the line may have not seen it well.
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I am not sure if all the refs can even come from another conference - it could be that they were allowed to have one of their guys and the other two were probably from the A10 or some other midwest conference - not what you would call a marque game for refs to bid on. That being said - the ref you are talking about probably did know their coaches fairly well. The refs did not work well together - they over ruled each other even if they were not the closest to the play and the one who was was not asking for help. They had quick whistles when not needed but slow if nonexistent ones when the play was getting out hand.
They don't need to be closest to the play to see something that another official may not have seen. An official doesn't have to ask for help to get help from a partner either.
I'm pretty sure they know when the blow the whistle and when not to better than you do. They may not be right every time, but I'll put my money on them being right far more often than I would on a fan being right.
Two of the refs were from the Valley.
Not really.
Bo Boroski has only worked 17 Valley games in his career. He primarily works in the MAC and Summit League.
Jackie Sanders calls mainly in the A-10, MEAC, and some C-USA.
Frank Spencer works mainly in the Summit League and MAC now. He used to do some games in the Valley several years ago, but did none last year, and only 8 between 2005 and 2008.
Oddly enough, I don't see any Atlantic Sun officials like some of you have been claiming.
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southwest missouri's two toughest opponents were tulsa and eastern michigan thus far and only two road games played thus far are arkansas little rock and arkansas state. i.e. i am not impressed with their undefeated record.
our game will be their toughest game for them thus far.
"Southwest Missouri" hasn't played any games yet this year. I'm not sure how they beat Tulsa....
Missouri State on the other hand did play those teams. Auburn was better than Eastern Michigan. Tulsa might be the best team in C-USA this year and beat OK State by 21. I'd say they would give you guys a pretty good test.
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Does this guy really think there's a chance that Southwest MO St. will go undefeated?
No, and neither do I.
I do think there's a chance that Missouri State will go undefeated in non-conference play.
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billiken roy, when are you going to answer my post about UNI and Rhode Island? Remember, you claimed that Rhode Island has been so much more successful than UNI over the past five years? I love how some of you pop off about the Valley and how bad it is, then show your ignorance about the teams in the league.
The Valley had a down year last year, but to say it is trending down is ridiculous. It's most definitely on the way up this year.
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1. I don't care if SLU joins the Valley. In fact, I don't even want them in the Valley. What I get tired of hearing is how prestigious the A10 is and how "podunk" the Valley is.
2. Whatever Porter Moser said is probably motivated by the fact that he was a sh*tty coach in the Valley and got pathetic results out of the talent he had. Barry Hinson outcoached that guy for Christ's sake. It can't get much worse than that.
oh was this about actual performance? since you included rhodey which has been a decent team for the entire time that the billikens have been a part of the a-10 i assumed you were talking about out of the way or unexciting cities. or are you saying you are so ignorant about the a-10 you didnt know that rhode island has consistently ben a better team over the last five years than either illinois state or northern iowa.
Huh...that's funny.
UNI NCAA appearances this decade: 04, 05, 06, 09
Rhode Island NCAA appearances this decade: None (Last was in 99)
And I'm the ignorant one here? Tell me again how much better Rhode Island has been than UNI the last five years.....
I had a hunch that you clowns didn't follow anything outside of St. Louis and the A10, but this just confirmed it for me. Thanks!
i've been to every siu game at carbondale since larry hughes was here. i would bet the most slu fans we have ever had at the game there is 40. most games there is about 10 blue shirts or jackets in the stands.
Then it looks like your fan base sucks. If we had an opponent an hour away in Joplin or Rolla that we played every year the place would be crawling with MSU fans.
The Missour St. Series
in Billikens.com Main Board
Posted
17-7.
I'm all for playing you guys next year, but it didn't work out. Like others said, you had the chance to sign a 4-year contract a few years ago and you dicked around and didn't do it. It's your fault we're not playing next year just as much as it is ours. It is too bad that we don't get to play a big East coast power like SLU next year though. I don't know what we'll do without that game on our schedule.