MICHAELSPAPPY Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 If Liddell were not such a good rebounder, we would be feeling having Meyer at the 4 a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I think it is a little misleading as well. How many 12-15 footers on the baseline has he missed this year? Like Cheese, I acknowledge that his FG% looks nice, but I think it is very fair to say he needs to be knocking down wide open jumpers to truly maximize his value. Again, you have to love this kid's guts, so I am not trying to trash him. It is not his fault that he gets over-matched sometimes. He is not built to be a D-1 4. If we were truly a quality team, and I realize that is a relative term, Meyer would be giving us 10-12 hard minutes off the bench, but because we cannot recruit ONE 6'6 -6'9 leaper who can defend other team's PF and rebound, he has to play out of position and over his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealisticBilliken Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 He's more like 6'2 and a half, which makes his play all that more impressive. But realistically, we desperatly needed to land a center or PF this year so he'd be ready for next year. We didn't - therefore, we're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 first cheese, it is obvious to me that you indeed are not "a front runner". you have been here fighting the fight with us all along and i consider you a super fan. none of us always agree, so be it. that said, cheese said, "but can you really tell me that you have confidence in Luke taking that 12-15 ft shoot much less 3pters?" what i can tell you is that i have a lot of confidence that luke will take the good shot, that he thinks (and apparently has been making) he can make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 i've stood next to luke and i think he is taller than 6'2 1/2". whether that is 6'5" or not, i wont say, but i bet he is closer to 6'5" than 6'2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 cheese said, " I have never said that SLU has stacked recruiting classes....which is my point". Well no ###### Sherlock! That's your point? And you don't think knowledgeable, long-time SLU bball fans don't know that? Please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 cheese I agree with most if not all of your thoughts in this thread. I hope this is unfounded fear/uneasiness but as I reflect on SLU's past, is SLU a place where recruting classes can get stacked? The lack by the STL area of producing consistent high D1 players to me makes SLU have to get players from Chicago or elsewhere to supplement the local talent, as it is. To me it is unrealistic to think you can keep 100% of local talent home, I don't know of any program that can do that. With the recruiting competition from the other local power schools, Ill, Mizzou, SIU and then when there is high class talent here comes UNC, KU, FLA, Duke etc, keeping all the talent home is anything but assured. I hope I am wrong about the assesment, I don;t think I am, but I hope UB can change this, in fact I think he has to, but it hasn't happened yet. Maybe going to the 2007 ncaa tourney will change this entire equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 cheese, just curious if you could detail the private school that has consistently "stacked" recruiting classes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I thought it was a good story...glad to see Luke getting some print. I do have a problem with what some of you folks are sayinga about Luke...and in fact, I think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First a disclaimer that I would be much more happy if we had Brandon Wright at power forward instead of an undersized 4. Anyway I'm really suprised how Cheese can sit here and tell us how Luke's stats are padded because he drives to the basket. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what a power forward is supposed to do? Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Brandon Wright gonna be a lottery pick although all his points come on dunks? Didn't Tyrus Thomas make most of his buckets within 5 feet last season? Why is Luke held to a different standard? He can't defend bigger guys? Not sure who you were watching, but I didn't see my Nahville boy Wright dominating us last week. 17-5 as a starter? Hey, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you Luke is gonna be an NBA power forward. But I think we can look around and find a lot of 6'8 athletes who couldn't hold Luke's jock strap. Hell, we have one down the bench in JJ. Last I checked, style points didn't win championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Roy...While I am not Cheese...I kind of like the roll that the Zags have been on for over a decade now so I would say that private institution has done a good job in the recruiting dept. for at least that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 schasz, while i agree they have done better more consistently than slu recruitingwise as of late, i wouldnt consider their classes consistently "stacked". they are really more like one very good player every other year surrounded by good role players and then a very consistent redshirt program that they have utilized for developing big men imo. and even if we give you gonzaga, which again i wouldnt put in the stacked category,............ that's one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 maybe stacked can't happen at non-state schools unless you are duke or zaga but looking at recent ncaa tourney appearances, these other private schools have much more success than slu bc creighton xavier nova gtown marq st joes stanford wake byu maybe temple bottom line, success can happen at non-state schools, at least in multi year spurts we are pretty dry again, let's hope this year and beyond cures that, but it takes more than hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 In an ideal world Ian would be coming off the bench because we had Shaq at center. Every player in D1 is only playing because their coach did not recruit anyone better for the position. That's not much of an argument. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 He really is a 48% field goal shooter .... do the math. Maybe you are arguing that he doesn't shoot 48% from 5-15 feet? Cheese you make too many observations that the facts don't bear out. Like when you insisted Ian should hit over 50% of the shots he is fouled on ... when in reality he should hit just over 50% of all his shots, which would mean he shoots the same percentage while being fouled as he does when not being fouled. I don't really care where the shots come from ... and it's funny you say he doesn't shoot from the perimiter well enough ... earlier posters were complaining that he missed too many layups. I'm wondering where he does actually make shots from. I think you are right on target that we have to start putting good recruiting classes together back to back. I wouldn't rule out a class as good though just because players aren't starting 12 games into their freshman season on a pretty good team. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 your drunk ... Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I will take the Zags recruting prowess over SLU's any day of the week if we are looking at the last decade or so. We should be so lucky if we ever become as good as they have been. One would think it would be a lot harder to convince kids that Spokane, WA is a cool place to metriculate...trust me I have been to Spokane in my Pacific NW days and it isn't much to write home about. I'm sure there success over the years helped them greatly convince kids that it is a very good place to play basketball, and they have gotten kids from a lot of different places, even outside the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 i think you are proving my point cowboy, the stacked recruiting classes are not the norm for the private school non-bcs schools. those schools that have had great success are more because of good systems and long time coaches than stacked recruiting classes. they might have a marquee player every few years, but for the most part they do the job with good but not great players that come and play for four years that wont end up in the nba and many times rely on one marquee player surrounded by role players. duke is the exception. they indeed do stack recruiting classes and they have a great longtime coach with a strong program. of course that didnt happen overnight either as coach k had a few upfront years that didnt scream out hall of fame before he hit the jackpot and then maintained thereafter. we have already went over gonzaga. a few very good players but for the most part a program that gets the job done with role players and consistent long term plan. 3 gonzaga coaches in 20 years all came from within the program. temple is a public school, but even then, a long time coach that had his system of doing things and was not a flashy coach and didnt stack great recruiting classes. villanova has had some very good recruiting classes as of late and they have a relatively new coach in jay wright. they might be a program that is breaking out of the norm, however this year they have already lost to drexel and xavier which wouldnt have happened last year. they have one stud sure nba player on their team this year in curtis sumpter, but after that they arent a stacked roster like north carolina. marquette had their great run in the wade years, but then fell back for a couple of years to sub 20 win seasons. they are again having a good year, but they too seem to be built around one great player and role players. georgetown had a long run under john thompson where they were indeed a national program and had a few stacked recruiting classes, but then at the end of thompson's tenure and then after that georgetown took a big step back. since thompson's son has taken over there have been signs of revival, but again the team is built around hibbard and i havent seen any stacked recruiting classes for awhile with georgetown. st joes is the eastern version of gonzaga. longtime excdellent coach with a great system. most years just a fine team with no standout nba like players. the one team that martellin did have a couple of nba players he got to the elite 8. but again, st joes success has more to do with having a good program that he rotates players into than recruiting standout stacked recruiting classes. wake forest has had the huge benefit of being an acc member. and indeed they have had a nice run as they were able to capitalize on the tim duncan years and parlay that into a nice run. but even then, there is no denying they play step brother to unc and duke. last year was a 500 season and this year appears might be worse as they are barely over 500 with the acc season looming. byu has always been a school that isnt loaded with nba like players. creighton is another example of a program that has been built on stability and doesnt have top tier recruiting classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 but a scant handful of gonzaga players can be considered big time players over the years. they have succeeded on finding players that fit into their system and maximizing their abilities, and getting them to stay for 4-5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 You mean like a Josh Harrellson or a Leon Powell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuBillsFan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Continue To Be Amazed... at the glass 1/2 full people on this board! Ya, I am just a relatively new fan, but man does the negativity flow here! By all accounts, Luke is a great student, very solid D-1 player, and perhaps most importantly, a great individual who will go on to be a success in life. Someone even said "in a real ideal world, he would not even be on the team"! My God - give this young man a break! (I'd bet a paycheck they don't have the balls to walk up to Luke and his dad after a game and say that!). He busts his ass every time he steps on the floor and brings many intangibles... call it guts, moxey, leadership, or whatever, SLU fans should be proud that this is the type of student-athlete that this university attracts. If some of you desire to be fans of a NBA minor league team and the one/two-and-done type players that flock there in pursuit of the big pay-day, perhaps posting on the Memphis or Cincy boards would be a better fit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 First of all Tbill - my comment about how SLU has not stacked recruiting class was in response to someone who asked when SLU had ever stacked class as they tried to point out that my expectations of stacking classes now is unrealistic. Second - Cowboy gave a list of private schools before I could answer Roy. Duke, Gonzaga, Marquette in recent times is what I would of said. Others had done it for many years in the past like St. Johns and DePaul. I never said stacking recruiting classes was easy just that if SLU wants to be a top 25 or even 50 program year in and year out then stacking classes has to happen. I would except a definition of stacking classes successfully as 1 very good player with good role players each year so you do not have to get all top 100 players. If some of you think that it is not possible for this to happen at SLU then fine but then tell the school to stop talking about wanting to be a top 25 or 50 program consistently. Skip - my earlier posts on the shooting %s explained my line of thought/reasoning - go back and read if you don't understand, not that I expect that to help you. I still stand by my earlier comments about Ian at the begining of the season missing to many close shots when he was not fouled that hard - once again, I am entitled to my opinion just as others are even though some think only their's count. By the way, things have improved for Ian because as of late he is being more aggressive when he goes to the basket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 >It is pretty easy to assess our recruiting efforts over the >past three years. > >On a great team, Dwayne and Luke are very capable backups. > >On a very good team, one of them is starting. > >On a good team, both of them are starting. > >On a good team with a very limited bench, they are both >starting and seeing over 25 mpg. > >With the A10 in a down cycle, we are a very good team, but >we are also back to the Anthony Bonner era where we need to >be the top dog in the conference to make the dance. That is an interesting point you make...because the A10 is down, SLU is likely to dominate it, therefore declaring SLU a very good team. Why does it matter what the conference is or isn't to judge SLU's ability as a team in a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I understand your reasoning was wrong. You specifically said more than once he should make over 50% of the shot's he is fouled on. That is ridiculous. It just doesn't happen. You also went on to say he had only hit 1-7 or 2-8 ... which was mathmatically impossible. I don't understand what you write because it is usually wrong. Having an opinion is one thing ... but base it on something factual. No different from your statement that Luke doesn't really shoot 48% from the field ... it's wrong, he does. What you meant I think was he doesn't shoot 48% from say 5-15 ft ... you are probably right, but I have no facts. But almost every player shoots better from closer in, so if you took away the layups ... all the shooting percentages would go down. He doesn't shoot well from the 3 ... and the facts back that up ... not just my observation. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 so use the list and tell us the players that make the list "stacked" recruiting classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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