Billiken fans???

[Billikan]

As I read a lot of the posts in the last few days it seems to me that many of the posters are not Billiken fans but they come on this board to rant and rave about the coach and the team and insult them. I have been a fan for decades and have only missed games when I am out of town since I graduated. I have gone to some road games including the NCAA games and a number of the functions, including the Billiken Club meetings. I have gotten to know the coaches and the AD and they are like family to me. I have high hopes and I get really upset when we do not play well. Yet I understand that these are young men who will be up and down, who have other stresses in their lives and who are trying hard to achieve so I cut them a little slack when they are less than perfect.

My question is to all of the posters here--How many of you actually go to Billiken games on a regular basis--not the Bernie M style of one game or two occasionally but really make a point of going to the games?

The reason for my quesiton is this--if you go to the games and see how hard it is to play this game, with all of the variables including the refs, lucky shots, bad bounces and injuries, you become more interested in the players and coaches as individuals, as friends, as family--not people who you can just insult any time that your brain or its drunken equivalent give you an idiotic idea. You really want them to do well and you fell bad for them when they don't have success.

On the other hand, if you seldom or never go to the games then you have no real connection to the team or the coaches. It seems to me that makes it much easier to be negative and insulting to the players and the coaches. I am astounded at the lack of civility and true venom and lies that are posted here--of course without any fear of reprisal or accountablity.

So here is the question of the day--Who goes to all of most of the games?

[Westy03]

Im 24 and ive been going to games since my dad was carrying me in(the old Kiel was awesome). Ive been to all the NCAA tournament games since 93-94. I attend road games when i can(was in Carbondale) I havent missed a home game in years.

[Box and Won]

I generally only miss 1-2 games a year - only missed two during my four years of college. Used to go to watch us play DePaul every year, but have switched my annual trip to Cincinnati for the Xavier game (I refuse to drive to crappy locales such as Carbondale).

[Westy03]

That was the first time Ive been to Carbondale and wow. Lets just say it will be the last

[Billiphan]

>As I read a lot of the posts in the last few days it seems

>to me that many of the posters are not Billiken fans but

>they come on this board to rant and rave about the coach and

>the team and insult them. I have been a fan for decades and

>have only missed games when I am out of town since I

>graduated. I have gone to some road games including the NCAA

>games and a number of the functions, including the Billiken

>Club meetings. I have gotten to know the coaches and the AD

>and they are like family to me. I have high hopes and I get

>really upset when we do not play well. Yet I understand that

>these are young men who will be up and down, who have other

>stresses in their lives and who are trying hard to achieve

>so I cut them a little slack when they are less than

>perfect.

>

>My question is to all of the posters here--How many of you

>actually go to Billiken games on a regular basis--not the

>Bernie M style of one game or two occasionally but really

>make a point of going to the games?

>

>The reason for my quesiton is this--if you go to the games

>and see how hard it is to play this game, with all of the

>variables including the refs, lucky shots, bad bounces and

>injuries, you become more interested in the players and

>coaches as individuals, as friends, as family--not people

>who you can just insult any time that your brain or its

>drunken equivalent give you an idiotic idea. You really want

>them to do well and you fell bad for them when they don't

>have success.

>

>On the other hand, if you seldom or never go to the games

>then you have no real connection to the team or the coaches.

>It seems to me that makes it much easier to be negative and

>insulting to the players and the coaches. I am astounded at

>the lack of civility and true venom and lies that are posted

>here--of course without any fear of reprisal or

>accountablity.

>

>So here is the question of the day--Who goes to all of most

>of the games?

Do you work for the White House? Is the next thing you're going to tell me is if I'm against the war that I'm unamerican?

So now we can't be Billiken fans without "loving" and being "friends" with the team? We can't criticize the Bills now? Good lord, go spread this sunshine somewhere else.

This is a late entry for "Worst Post of the Year"

[RealisticBilliken]

Billikan is a prime example of someone who goes to games with blinders on.

I have gone to EVERY home game for the past 4.5 years so don't even try to tell me I'm not a fan. I go to the games and see serious, serious, holes in our game and I bring them to the attention of people on this board who would rather overlook areas for improvement and instead think everything is merry.

Instead of listening to other people's views, some on this board including Billikan would rather insult them. This board is a discussion board amongst fans. Just because someone has a different view point does not make them any less of a fan.

I don't know why I am even wasting my time responding to anything this joke has to say but nevertheless, I will be at the game on Saturday.

[aj_arete]

Have you ever listened to radio talk shows ACROSS America. Have you ever sat in the stands with fans? In all instances, many of them rant, complain and criticize "their" teams throughout the season. It's the nature of being a sports fan.

Actually, American sports fans are mild compared to fans on global basis. I don't need to remind you how fanatical fans are during the World Cup. People have committed suicides over games. Many of them are very unreasonable, but they're still passionate toward the team. They do still care.

[Westy03]

Very good point. Like I said Im one of the most passionate fans SLU has, like the majority of you on here. I vent and get frustrated with Brad and the players.

[courtside]

I go to a lot of games and watch a lot of games in multiple sports at SLU. I know personally, people affiliated with the programs. And yes it is always nice to root for good people when they exist, etc...but college hoops for example is big business. Separating friendships with objectivity is easier for some than others.

As for posting wild, negative, unstable, hostile, unproductive things, ....that is about the individual. It doesn't matter if somebody sees 100 games or 2. Those same people will lack in civility, objectivity(positive or negative) whether they see 100 games or 2 games. It is about their personal character.

Take your Bernie M example. It is obvious to any knowledgeable person that Bernie is very good at providing insight and information regarding pro sports in St. Louis, because he covers those closely, is in the lockerooms on a regular basis, etc...and his depth of detailed knowledge with SLU or Mizzou is lacking. So, one could get upset and rant and rave over it, or accept it. Many people on this board think any negative comments by a newspaper or elsewhere somehow damages SLU in the eyes of a casual reader or observer. It is up to that reader or observer to gain knowledge of a situation beyond one article, or one talk show, etc...

People on here will post wild, unstable thoughts because of the problems within themselves, as opposed to the problems of SLU. People will post rose colored glasses thoughts, always protecting SLU because of their lack of objectivity, and insecurity,... and some will post in the middle of those, with informed rational thought.

I would suggest trying to ignore the uninformed irrational angry posts or threads. Why post with someone who brings nothing to the table? If the board gets too filled with those posters you don't like, there is always the choice of leaving the board...something I have considered many times. Your life will be just fine without it.

[slubaseball42]

I am a SLU grad ('04) and a HUGE Billiken fan who has relocated to Chicago. I make it to a game or two each year. However, I was a baseball player and knew the coaches on a personal level for many years. I mainly use the board to keep up on many of the recruiting rumors and to hear inside information from the people who actually go to every game.

Go Bills!

[Tonka]

Billikan - you don't have to give us your Billiken credentials. We know from your posts you're one of the good guys and we appreciate your posts. I am a season ticket holder and my connections to SLU are vast and probably drown most on this board. But, that being said, I don't consider myself any better of a fan than anybody else on this board. I know of people who I would call very good fans but have three young kids, work 50-60 hours a week and simply attend just a few games a year and certainly don't have the time for thousands of posts on message boards. But, they keep up when they can, they get excited about recruits and disappointed about lack of recruits. They want wins and get disappointed with losses. I'm sure they don't feel like the team is their "family" as they don't have enough time to get close to the team and the AD. I try to keep things in persepective when it comes to fans vs. great fans vs. family, etc.

Last year there was a post about how a "true" fan would never leave a game early. What a crock that is. Sometimes people have to. I would rather someone come to the game and leave 10 minutes early because they had to pick up their kid from practice then that same person not going at all because they knew they had a tight schedule that night.

I also don't think it's fair to say that the people who are overcritical of the team are less fans than the ones who aren't as critical. People express themselves in different ways. This is also a message board so it's flat communication. We don't hear voice inflection, we don't see body language, we don't know personalities - we only see words. I see people jump on people because they perceive a post to be a certain way without really knowing. Also, there are some people that just have negative personalities in general, whether it's about the government, sports, etc. It is what it is and I take it for nothing more than that.

I do think you are right on when you call out the people on this board that really just try and stir up stuff and I don't agree with when people do that. Other times, I find some posts as hilarious and often witty. As much as I think the "jerks" don't need to be "jerks" I also think this board can be over sensitive when it comes to criticism of the team.

I also find it interesting that the closest friends of the team more times than not give money to the program and I'm not talking a low level Billiken Club membership. I don't have a program with that though. If you give money or volunteer and help out, you should be a friend to the program and treated special. But, I also think the 20 year season ticket holder who works 60 hours a week has a lot of family activities and can only attend games and that's where his / her support ends should also be treated special by the AD.

[Billikan]

My very young friend, you are the one who constantly insults the coach and the team. You need to progress beyond your immature ravings and act like an adult!

[Billikan]

You make a number of good points. I know a lot of good fans that do not even know about this board and I stopped sending people here long ago because of the nonsense that is often posted here.

I have actually considered never reading another post on this board and it may happen. My problem is that then the inmates run the aslyum and no one stands up when the coach and the team are insulted then anyone who might come here as a relative of a team member, a friend or relative of a recruit or a person who is interested in the school it would make it look like most fans hate the coach and hate the team which is not at all the truth.

I know that many people have busy schedules and if someone has to leave early I have no problem with that. Although it pains me, my schedule requires me to be out of town or in meetings for some games but I try my very best to go to every game and I have not missed one this year. My point is that except for a few absolute idiots, and we all know to whom I am referring, most people would feel better about the program and the coach if they went to the games, saw how hard our kids play and how passionate our coach is to win. It is easier to be negative when all you do is read the lousy reporting, listen to the lousy radio coverage and read this board.

[Billikan]

You did not answer the question.

[Tonka]

Good points. I agree.

[kshoe]

that those that are very close to the program may be so involved that they have trouble forming an objective viewpoint.

An analogy I can give is that of a parent who may think the world of his child and think the child is perfect although objective outsiders may see nothing but a little brat. Even if the parent is willing to publicly scold the child every once in a while, the parent will likely take extreme offense when a neighbor criticizes the child. Its human nature.

Those that know me know why I won't be able to attend all that many games this year or make many BC meetings. Perhaps the relative distance I've had from the program the past couple years has been a factor in my questioning of the program's direction. Does that mean I'm wrong, or maybe just more objective then i used to be?

As i listened to Brad's show on monday I couldn't help myself when I started to actually believe that we are going to sign a very good recruiting class this spring. Brad is a very convincing speaker. Of course, a couple days have passed and now I'm more inclined to look at past history with our spring recruits and the fact that pretty much every winter Brad has told us he would get good recruits in the spring and thus am not as optimistic, but for at least a short while I BILLieved. To those that can keep up that feeling 24/7 more power to you.

To those that can

[RealisticBilliken]

LOL

glug glug glug

gluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug gluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug gluggggggggggggggggg

how's that blue kool-aid goin down?

You really crack me up Billikan - Do you and 50 cent engage in articulate debate often??

[Box and Won]

One good thing about Brad's comments on the spring recruiting class is that he is not a good liar - when he's optimistic about anything, there's usually a pretty good reason for it.

[aj_arete]

to Brad over the radio. I've been very impressed with the way he expresses himself. I also appreciate his passion and conviction to doing things the right way. Now my feelings can change as the season progresses, but I sincerely hope that the Billiken program takes that next step.

[Billiken Rich]

I'd like to see if Diane can retroactively kick you out of the Blue Crew.

[RealisticBilliken]

LOL LOL LOL

Lol

LOL

Oh boy Rich that's what I needed

Thanks buddy for giving me a good afternoon laugh - you and Kramer have a future in comedy together.

[billiken_roy]

what's ironic realistic, is that you are one of the most unrealistic fans on the board. your expectations are formidable and realizing where we have come in the 29 years i have been following the billikens, it is frustrating to hear your complaints that are so out of context imo.

we all want the billikens to be mentioned in the same breath as marquette and gonzaga and rightfully so. but knowing how long it took to even get where we have gotten and then the difficulty of staying there, (3 steps forward, 2 steps back) surely you can see where us "oldtimers" are coming from.

many think a new coach is the answer. many think switching to a new conference would fix the problems. some dont like our administration. others think we are just in over our heads and should be in the same conference with washington university.

i have long been a proponent that the answer is steady advancement and stability to the program. stability is not having 4 athletic directors in 20 years or 5 coaches in the same time period. stability is not switching conferences from the mvc, to the metro to the midwestern cities to the great midwest to conference usa to the atlantic 10 in the last 30 years (i think i covered them all).

coach soderberg constantly refers to his envy of gonzaga. well gonzaga isnt the overnite success many believe it is. they had a coach fitzgerald that was there for most of the 80's and 90's that brought the program from nothing to something. he passed it off to his assistant dan monson, who then turned that into an ncaa run that put them on the map. when he left to go to minnesota (which he then promptly failed at) the other fitzgerald asst coach, mark few took over. i.e. gonzaga thrived because they stayed the course with the same people who all had the same vision. eventually when they finally got to the mountaintop, they continued to do things gonzaga way but amazingly it all at once became easier to recruit and continue to win.

but if you think we should switch it all around again, good luck. imo, that just means we are starting over............again.

[bbill]

More than 90% of the top 100 players signed in the fall. That tells you all you need to know about the importance of the fall signing period.

Brad got Dustin McGuire last year and nobody this year.

He is not a good recruiter. Recruits largely determine the fate of a program.

[Band Legend]

Who cares about somebody's top 100 recruit list? Brad, and schools like SLU, need to find guys who slip under the radar screen, not top 100 guys. That doesn't mean you don't try, but if you don't get those supposed blue chippers do you just give up? There are alot of really good players still left to be recruited that can help our program. Did the MVC teams who have reached lofty status (Creighton, Wichita State, Northern Iowa, SIUC) get there be recruiting top 100's? I don't think so. Now I am as concerned as anybody about our lack of signings, but the well is not dry. On the subject of game attendance, I split season tickets with my sister and usually end up at 10 to 12 games a year. What relevance that has to being a fan, or posting on this board, I am not sure. Many times I have just as much fun listening to Rammer and Earl on the radio. There is no litmus test for being a fan. I am sure I would be considered a kool-aid drinker by Hardball, Realistic and the ghost of Metz, but even I think that Billikan is just a little bit over the top.

[Billikan]

I was not suggesting that you are not a fan if you do not go to all of the games. If you go to 10-12 games a year then you get to see the kids and the coach enough to see them as human beings. My point is that people who don't go or who go to a game or 2 have not had the opportunity to see them as anything other than names with stats in the paper or on a website. It does frustrate me that people who do not go to games want to offer us all of this so called expertise about the coaches, the style of play, the recruiting and everything else.