Recruits...here we go again

[NashvilleBilliken]

Have you fogotten that Zo WAS our coach...and failed miserably? Is it that hard to accept that things are more difficult at SLU than at other schools? Hey, I don't know why that is and have not desire to discuss that. But tell me...if Zo is all that...why the hell did he have so many shortcomings at SLU, but within one year is landing Micky D All American's at Washington? And I DON'T think it had anything to do with cheating.

[brianstl]

No we can’t compare ourselves to GU or MU. That’s where we want to be not where we are at our have ever been. How many final fours, sweet sixteens, and national championships does SLU have? None. Those two teams well they have them. The have been producing them for years. They were producing them before their current coaches. Those two coaches started out in a much better position than Brad. On the facility front, both of those schools have much better on campus practice and offices than SLU currently does.

Drew hasn't won anything at Baylor, yet. Let's see how both teams do this year. Baylor also has much better facilities than SLU. Baylor plays in the Big 12. Has a top-flight athletic department, look at what they accomplish outside of the big 2 sports. It is the largest Baptist University in the world. So it is not exactly a fair comparison.

Texas A&M and UTEP are both large state land grant universities. Have much larger and better athletic departments. They have better facilities and resources for the programs to work with. So they are not fair comparisons.

I am not saying that we can't be a big time program. I am not saying that everything is perfect with Brad. Everyone just needs to remember where he was starting. They need to remember the resources he has had to work with. I just think you need a little more time at SLU then you need at some of the other places that have been mentioned.

[billikenmetz]

It's because I want to see them do well and get the national notoriety that Gonzaga and BC and Gee-Town have. We should be hosting NCAA College Gameday when UNC comes to call. We should be in the top 25 and looking for blood every game. But because we have a coach who couldn't recruit you or me to play ball at SLU, we aren't even mentioned in the same breath with Xavier.

[Iggy]

We have one national championship.

I know, it's ancient history. But let's not forget it.

[TheRaginCajun]

I would not say Zo failed miserably. He had the program headed in the right direction in my opinion. The season after he left he would have returned all of his players and added Hollins and Taj Gray to that team.

[3star_recruit]

>We can't compare ourselves to MU and GU, brother Jesuit

>schools? Does GU have great hoops facilities? Are their

>academic standards lower? Is there recruiting budget in the

>millions? That's it, I give up, time for us to drop to Div

>IIA or NAIA status

If you're going to make a comparison, do it with with a program that has a comparable recruiting base. Chicago is 90 min from Marquette and GU is located near the Seattle basketball hotbed. Despite our large population base, the talent profile in the St. Louis area for any given year is akin to a place like Birmingham, Alabama. Mike Anderson got it done there by recruiting 2 and 3 star recruits from the high school and juco ranks.

The difference between Brad and Anderson is that Anderson recruited the qualities necessary to run his system (speed, length) while Brad has not recruited enough shooters to run his. So it lies on Brad to tweak his system enough to utilize the strengths of the players he has. He has been unable or unwilling to do it thus far but the success of the program depends on it.

[3star_recruit]

"The season after he left he would have returned all of his players and added Hollins and Taj Gray to that team."

I keep hearing this story but what is it based on? Taj Gray didn't qualify -- that's why he went to junior college.

[brianstl]

I do not believe the NIT championship is regonized as a national championship.

[TheRaginCajun]

We would have had a starting line-up of Josh Fisher at the point, Marque Perry at the 2, Jason Edwin (not sure if he would have been able to be retained if Romar was still around) or Chris Sloan at the 3, Taj Gray at the 4, and Kenny Brown at center. Then you would have had Hollins, Diener, Braun, Seifert, Varner, and Pulley (same as Edwin situation) on your bench. That would have been a pretty good team.

I don't know the whole Taj Gray situation other than what I read in the Post-Dispatch that he was going to be attending SLU as a walk-on had Romar stayed. I am assuming Taj would have received Kerns scholarship once Kerns did not qualify.

[Billikan]

Please give up and leave like you promise!!!!! You and your always negative friends Hardball and Putz can go to the K State website and root for a "winner". Your posts are becoming more and more negative as we get closer to the season. You never see the Bills play and so you have no feeling for them as individuals--they are just lousy players who don't meet your need for bragging rights by being highly "rated". this is a very nice group of good to excellent players who have a chance to have a very nice season but all you can do is post negative message after negative message. You will never be happy so why even bother. Just "give up" like you posted here.

[Hardball]

SLU72 you might as well forget it. Apparantly no one can recruit at SLU. SLU has nothing to offer. We should feel lucky to have a D1 program. I say nonsense to this way of thinking. How do the basketball powerhouses at Nevada and Air Force make the NCAA tournament? Pearl leaves Wisconsin/Milwaukee and Jeter hasn't missed a beat. Matta leaves Xavier and Miller sustains. Would SLU be in the same place in time if we had hired Fox of Nevada or Miller of Xavier as a head coach five years ago? Would we be sitting on 10/13/2006 with no fall commitments? No NCAA appearances? and barely a .500 five year record?

The examples are endless!

Don't forget to add sugar!

[3star_recruit]

"That would have been a pretty good team.

I don't know the whole Taj Gray situation other than what I read in the Post-Dispatch that he was going to be attending SLU as a walk-on had Romar stayed."

Well Stu did do a feel good story on Romar after his success at Washington where he wrote "Had Romar stayed, SLU expected an incoming class with Taj Gray (now at Oklahoma) and Ryan Hollins (UCLA)" but what Stu failed to mention is that Gray didn't qualify out of high school. Your walk-on story doesn't appear in the Post Dispatch archives.

[NashvilleBilliken]

If Brad is a failure, I also think Romar was a failure. I feel Soderbergs recruiting has far surpassed Romars recruiting. We hear the stories about Taj from youreself or others, but the fact is that he never gave us a commitment. And he didn't even follow Romar to Washington. So, I don't know how much stock to put in that one. Hell, we all thought Stemler was going to come here until 20 minutes before signing.

And I am not knocking Romar. I think he is an excellent coach and recruiter. He was just not able to get it done at SLU. And if he can't, I don't think it's as easy as some are making it out to be.

[Quality Is Job 1]

...not Gonzaga.

[TheRaginCajun]

It must have been a conversation I had with somebody then. They were telling me that SLU did not have any scholarships open to use for Taj, but that Kern's scholie would have been given to him if Kern's didn't qualify.

I did not know the story first hand, so don't take anything I say on this topic to be too accurate.

I would not argue that Romar did a great job here, but I think it is a little ridiculous to say that he failed miserably. He coached here for three seasons, so if you all say it is unfair to judge Soderberg after 4 season, I would have to say it is unfair to judge Romar after just 3. I think Romar was a great coach and would have taken this program to that next level. Here were his stats at SLU:

1999-2000 19-14 7th in confernece NCAA / C-USA Tourney Champ

2000-2001 17-14 7th in conference C-USA Quarterfinal

2001-2002 15-16 5th in conference

[brianstl]

Hardball, I am not saying you don't bring some valid arguments. But, you don't concede that there are valid arguments on the other side.

Let face it our last two coaches quit. One left to go to another program. The other left because he was fed up with the situation here. If everything were great at SLU for a coach this wouldn't have occurred. I don't want to hear about Spoon leaving because of his health because that is BS. Anyone who knows him well will tell you this. He had it with the whole crew at the University. Don't tell about Zo leaving for his alma mater. If everything was great here he would have stayed just like Weber at IL, he didn't take the Purdue job.

XU has been a hell of a program for twenty years. It was not built by Matta or Miller. Gillen built it and it didn't happen over night.

You talk about Jeter at UWM. You think Brad gets recruits late, you would really hate Jeter. Just check out this link:http://uwmpanthers.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/090506aab.html . I would say that is just unacceptable for a team coming off a trip to the second round in the tournament.

I respect your thoughts on Ahearn and Frazier. How many tournaments has MSU been to with them?

I agree with you about Tatum. But, why don't we hear anyone ***** about the guys, Zo didn't recruit at all, that built that program?

[TheRaginCajun]

I am not one to say Brad is a failure nor would I say Romar was either. I think having only three seasons here, it is tough to call Romar a failure. I dont think anyone has said that getting SLU to the next level is easy, but it is not and should not be as hard as many posters on this board make it be. Why isn't SLU consistently a top 50 team is the question that I have. I am not going to sit here and cry in my Wild Turkey and make excuses when there really shouldn't be any. We are the only Division 1 program in a relatively large centrally located city with a good academic reputation and a beautiful campus. We play in a nice arena right now and have had plans for an on-campus arena for at least the past 3 years. I am tired of the excuses, if you all are going to continually make excuses then there is no reason we should see ourselves as above the valley schools. I want more and I expect more from SLU basketball. All that said, those expectations may come to fruition this year. If it doesn't happen this year I will be calling for a coaching change and anyone who wouldn't is accepting mediocrity from a program that has no real reason to be.

[slufanskip]

Who is accepting mediocrity. For every example that you can give that turned around a program and kept it at a high level there are 50 examples that didn't. No one said it was impossible, but it is very rare. Leave out Baylor ... they haven't turned around crap. Most in fact never get it done. In fact only 20% of the teams in D1 make the tourney. Most on this board think we will make the tourney as do a few Nat'l publications which rarely predict us to do anything.

Yes we can compare ourselves to MU, GU, and XU ... they are programs to aspire to, but they all have past histories far greater than ours. Having name recognition certainly helps turn a program around.

Instead of bitching ... why don't all of you constant whiners give us a plan to get it done. We hired a coach that is one of the best recruiters in the country ... it didn't work. Now we have a guy that seems to be building something ... relax.

Fire Brad ... hire who?

The worst thing you can do is listen to the Hardmetzaball.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

[NashvilleBilliken]

I actually agree with much of what you say. I think that we are taking awhile to get the top 50 status, but I think we are pretty darn close. I think there are coaches out there that could have put us on the map faster than Brad. A lot of people are getting very, VERY wrapped up in the recruiting class and is the reason for all the negativity. They forget that we could have one hell of a team this year. And people are thinking that since we didn't get any 4 star players, that we are screwed after this year. I don't see that as the case. We lose IV and JJ this year. Sure, IV will be a big loss, but what is going to replace him?! Did anybody really expect to get a Center of IV's caliber this class? Anybody we signed would have to develop. Brad obviously thinks very highly of this next class...and thinks that is going to be the BIG one.

The problem is that both sides of the coin are playing with "what if's". What If we don't sign anybody in the fall? The thought is that we are screwed. Well, I'm saying What If we don't sign anybody in the fall, but our current team matures, we knock the NCAA on it's ass, and have a killer class next year? One that steps in right away a is challenging for minutes (a la KL and TL).

The negative "what if's" are just getting a lot more attention because several of them are posed in a very ugly, mean spirited fashion. If everybody has the poise of say, davidnark, i think the tone of this board would be much better.

[Hardball]

B you miss my point. I realize there is another side to my thinking but all I ask is that there is some LOGICAL explanation for that stance. Waiting is not a LOGICAL stance in my view. Resting an argument on three players in 5+ years of recruiting is not acceptable. I have tried to give example after example of basketabll programs that have either sustained success or turned programs around and the response I get is "your a hater." That is absurd. The turnaround always starts with RECRUITING. I am not a SLU hater just as you and the rest of the Kool-Aid Club are not the only supporters of SLU. All this recruiting talk comes with an understanding of one's recruiting philosophy. Tell me what BS recruiting philosophy is? I can tell you what Anderson's at Missouri is. I can tell you what SIU's philosophy is. But I can't tell you what BS philosophy is.

Fox of Nevada and Miller of Xavier took over programs and sustained success. Pretty credable uhh? Then we hear these programs where successful before they came. Ok... so I speak about Billie at Texas AM. And then.... I need to parse the word sustaining with the Captain. It is all about results. I don't like late committments but if your getting you team into the tournament like Jeter has how can you argue with that. But when your not getting your team into the tournmaent like BS and you never get early committments and are contantly finding players in the spring with special circumstances it is very concerning.

Like it or not but SLU may be the only University that wants to be in the TOP 50 that is content to wait 5+ years to get there.