Excuses for Brad

[VTIME]

People keep saying that Romar only outrecruits Brad because he's at Washington. When SLU was in C-USA they could lure kids with the opportunity to play at a high major just like Romar could at Washington. Romar coached the U18 team to the Gold Medal in July. He got Washington to a #1 seed in no time. Brad cant win the A10. Why do you guys think Brad is so great. The blind faith astounds me. He's done nothing to deserve it. 9-21 will not be forgiven. There was no reason for SLU to be that bad. Out of all the local D1's Missouri State, SEMO, SIUC, Missouri, he only outrecruits SEMO. I think I'm just about done with this board. My posts will rare if I post at all.

[SShoe]

Well, for the most part history proved you wrong. Romar came up short on a lot of national recruits and we were stuck with the Randy Pulley's and Floyd McClain's of the world. The only national recruit he was able to get was Ryan Hollins who departed when Romar did. Romar brought Fish with him, but that was after he had recruited him at Pepperdine and he followed Romar. His best season (the C-USA championship) was with Spoon's recruits.

So it seems silly to say there isn't a difference in being able to recruit at SLU versus UW, especially when Romar had limited success here, but then moved to a Pac-10 major university and turned it into a top-flight program.

All that being said, we'll see what Brad does this year. It's the measuring stick year for him. Given the hand dealt to him when Romar left, he's did pretty well during his first two years.

The 9-21 season was actually not surprising, considering the injuries and youth we dealt with. However, if we go .500 or just above this year....

[Box and Won]

I find it interesting how patient Missouri State has been with Hinson. He's coached for eight years now without an NCAA appearance, although he's only had one under .500 season. After a very good season last year, it's looking like their chances of making the Big Dance this year are very good. Does patience pay off?

[Iggy]

"I think I'm just about done with this board. My posts will rare if I post at all."

Best news I've heard in months!!!

[billiken_roy]

please tell me the team that was successful when they lost their top two returning senior players most of the season to injury.

[darrenpais]

"I think I'm just about done with this board."

Great news! Thats a fan - hate on the coach right before a promising season is about to begin.

Please stay out, you really belong to a high school basketball board.

[billiken_roy]

vtime has shown he really isnt a billiken fan. he is a local high school basketball fan and will follow talent through the system. the kind of guy that will be a fan of whichever team is currently winning. he should change his moniker to vtimestlouisfinestbandwagonjumper

[slufanskip]

thank you. I hope you are a man of your word

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

[StLouBlue]

I am not sure what the point you are trying to make actually is. Is it that Romar is a better coach than Brad? That would be a good debate but I would guess most would say at this point Romar is a better coach than Brad. Now their results at SLU are actually pretty similar other than the 9-21 season for Brad which injuries was part of the reason for this, but as you point out it should not be forgotten either.

Is Romar the better recruiter than Brad? I think Romar is showing that at Washington now. Romar is able to get in the door to some of the top talent in the country, unfortunately when he was here the SLU program wasn't attractive enough for these top players. I think Brad has done a better job of identifying players that are legtimate targets for SLU. Brad deserves lots of credit for landing Lisch, Liddell and the whole Jr class. I also think we will be happy with our freshmen class as well. I am not sure how Brad's classes stack up with Mo St, SIU and Mizz classes but I doubt I would say those schools have obviously outrecruited SLU in the last 3 years.

I do have a certain amount of faith in Brad, because I am happy with who he is bringing in. I am not 100% sold that Brad will make us a consistant 20 win, NCAA bid team, but I am willing to give him a few more years to either prove it or not.

As far as posting on the forum, do what you think best. I enjoy reading about the different high school players in the area and your reports. I think you offer the board a good and different perspective that would be missed. While I might not agree with your posts, they certainly makes the board more interesting.

[VTIME]

>Well, for the most part history proved you wrong. Romar came

>up short on a lot of national recruits and we were stuck

>with the Randy Pulley's and Floyd McClain's of the world.

>The only national recruit he was able to get was Ryan

>Hollins who departed when Romar did. Romar brought Fish with

>him, but that was after he had recruited him at Pepperdine

>and he followed Romar. His best season (the C-USA

>championship) was with Spoon's recruits.

>

>So it seems silly to say there isn't a difference in being

>able to recruit at SLU versus UW, especially when Romar had

>limited success here, but then moved to a Pac-10 major

>university and turned it into a top-flight program.

>

>All that being said, we'll see what Brad does this year.

>It's the measuring stick year for him. Given the hand dealt

>to him when Romar left, he's did pretty well during his

>first two years.

>The 9-21 season was actually not surprising, considering the

>injuries and youth we dealt with. However, if we go .500 or

>just above this year....

Why do you keep talking about the team Brad inherited. You act like Romar inherited studs. That team was a mess. He made those guys players. The last 2 years he's had a first round pick, including a top 6 pick this year who was considered the most polished player in the draft. How's that for coaching. Also, I never said I was going to leave the board immediately. I'm going to phase myself out so one day you'll look up and I'm gone. Its just tiring arguing with people who dont understand the world outside of those 94 ft of hardwood, and dont know a whole lot about that which is inside. Not all, but a lot. There are some guys with actual knowledge like P. Diddy, billikenroy although a jerk knows what he's talking about a lot of the time. Nate, sometimes. I apologize to anyone I left. Those with real knowledge know who you are and you have the class to not jump on anyone who doesnt agree with you.

[Taj79]

Please ... Vtime came on here spouting that he was a Vashon fan and was later rumored to be "problack" from another cyberboard existence. He "found" us because Dwayne Polk came on board at SLU from Vashon. Nothing wrong with that. Being pro-black .. nothing wrong with that either and it kind of explains his backing of certain St. Louis High Schoolers for full-ride scholarships to the local school.

But his asinine and inane arguments outed him for what he truly was .. which at a minimum was not a "fan" of Saint Louis University. I also am thanking today as the day that he is gone .... maybe him and Joey Fluegel can get together .... but am betting the house that he is not "a man of his word" as skip hopes.

[ACE]

Brad has recruited Liddell, Bryant, Lisch and Ian. Did Romar land one player as good as any of those guys when he was here? I guess Hollins, but who else?

[Nate Latsch]

If VTime leaves the board, I'm guessing we'll see more from stlsfinest.

- Nate

[SShoe]

>Why do you keep talking about the team Brad inherited. You

>act like Romar inherited studs. That team was a mess. He

>made those guys players. The last 2 years he's had a first

>round pick, including a top 6 pick this year who was

>considered the most polished player in the draft. How's

>that for coaching. Also, I never said I was going to leave

>the board immediately. I'm going to phase myself out so one

>day you'll look up and I'm gone. Its just tiring arguing

>with people who dont understand the world outside of those

>94 ft of hardwood, and dont know a whole lot about that

>which is inside. Not all, but a lot. There are some guys

>with actual knowledge like P. Diddy, billikenroy although a

>jerk knows what he's talking about a lot of the time. Nate,

>sometimes. I apologize to anyone I left. Those with real

>knowledge know who you are and you have the class to not

>jump on anyone who doesnt agree with you.

you're sort of making my argument for me. Romar, at Washington was able to turn that program around immediately and turn it into a power. At SLU he wasn't able to do that. Maybe in time he could have, but he didn't so we can't speculate. What we can say is that in three years at SLU he was unable to attract top talent. At Wash. he was. What does that tell you about recruiting at SLU? That it's not easy? That maybe immediate results aren't always possible, regardless of who the coach is?

When Romar left, he truly left SLU in shambles. The two recruits who signed with us didn't come, Edwin, McClain, and Pulley all left. He left Brad with very little left. He immediately got Reggie to transfer, JJ, then Drejaj and Izik. Not bad for a last second recruiting job. The next year he got Bryce and Ian. Then he's done nothing but build up with local players and is poised for good things this year. So at this point, I don't understand what your problem is. If you want to argue the merits of the pack-defense vs. pressing and up-tempo, fine. But don't compare Brad's recruiting at SLU vs. Romar's recruiting at Wash. That's apples and oranges.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

I think with out a doubt Lisch and Liddell would be wearing Billiken Blue if Romar was the coach. I do not think there was much of a sales job required to get those two. Bryant transferred in and from all acounts sought SLU out from some advice he got from Gary Buchanon. Other than Lisch, one could argue that none of those guys listed were highly recruited players. I would list these players equal to those you listed that Romar was able to get: he was able to rerecruit Marque Perry, Kenny Brown, Jason Edwin, Floyd McClain, and Randy Pulley. These guys may not have turned out in the long-run, but they were considered quality recruits out of highschool, which here seems be the determinant of successful recruiting. He had Ryan Hollins coming and reports were Taj Gray as well. If Pulley had not signed on his visit, Travis Diener would have been a Billiken as well. I am not trying to say Romar is far superior to Soderberg, but I do not think you can say that Sodie is doing a great job of recruiting.

Also, many have said that Romar won C-USA with Spoons players, which I do not debate, but then give credit to Brad for making the NIT in his first two seasons. Who were the leaders of those two NIT teams? Perry, Brown, Fisher, and Sloan and all those guys were recruited here by Romar. Since then, with Sodie recruits, the Billikens have had one awful season and one solid season that did not produce a tournament bid. The program is on the heels of doing good things and I think Brad is doing a fine job, I just don't think you could say he did better in his first 3 seasons than Romar did. 3 seasons is very little time to put your stamp on a program and I do not think the Romar/Soderberg debate is a fair or good one to have.

[Billiken Law]

wrong on Diener - he signed with Marquette first, then Pulley signed with SLU the next day. Getting Pulley was a pretty big deal, he was ranked as a PG almost as highly as Diener was.

As for excuses, well, they seem to only apply to SLU and apparently, only Soderberg. Only SLU has injuries, only SLU has guys not qualify (3 for BS), only SLU has trouble getting JUCO's in, only SLU has poor facilities to recruit to, etc... 4 years, 60 wins, not exactly lighting the world on fire, and in that 9-21 year, the Paradise Jam fiasco occured with a full line-up.. Though the step down in conference seems to be helping and the tide seems to be turning.

[billiken_roy]

law is correct. pulley was the backup plan to diener by romar. romar coveted travis diener very much.

[Billikan]

We know you hate Brad. We know you hate SLU. WE know you do everything you can to criticize the Bills. YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED YOUR GOAL--EVERYONE FULLY UNDERSTANDS YOUR POSITION. Why not go somewhere else and post rather than repeat the same old crap over and over again.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

I stand corrected. I had heard that Pulley and Diener had their official visits on the same day and that it was basically whoever committed first got the scholarship and that Pulley committed first. Roy, I believe you and apologize for the wrong information on my prior post.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

That season was a debacle in every sense of the word and can not be merely contributed to Reggie missing some games and Tom being injured. The season was down the drains before much of that occurred. I recall all those guys getting spanked at SIU and Brad yanking the seniors and playing the freshmen the rest of the game. The season was finished at that point and that was prior to Tommy boy hangin them up. That game seemed to set the tone for the rest of the season with Soderberg giving the youth more significant roles. Izik would go on to have a fine second half of the season and be a very productive player in conference, but he was the only guy that really played even close to his potential.

All of that said, that season may have had a silver lining. If Tom had stayed healthy and the team was playing well Ian may have never developed into the player he is today. He was struggling playing behind Tom and was always looking over his shoulder when he was in the game. With Tom done for the season Ian was forced to play significant minutes and did not have to worry about being yanked. Also, the three guys battling it out for the other starting guard spot earned valuable minutes that season. They played significant roles against some very quality teams as freshmen and now those guys are juniors and will likely determine just how successful this team will be.

[VTIME]

If I hated SLU I wouldnt be so passionate about the guys they should be looking at and the direction of the program. The coach is my problem, not the institution. I'll probably be at SLU for grad school. How's that for hate.

[FromGreeceWithLove]

I would say V-Time is more legitimate with his take on Coach Soderberg than most of the posters on here. I think V is obviously on one extreme, but I would lean more towards his side than the other when it comes to what Soderberg has done to this point. Fans who to this point are happy with the job coach has been doing are satisfied with being mediocre and one could argue if that. I am sure hopes for this season would not be so high if we were still in C-USA last season and the conference was still together. A true fan would question how much of our success last season was due to playing in a weak conference and if our beliefs on the quality of this team are legitimate. I recall the win/loss string to start the season against non-conference teams with no real quality win. I honestly was ready to throw Sodie under the bus up until the start of conference play, so the question would have to be, was it something we did or was it just playing bad teams.

I believe Soderberg has the program headed in the right direction and this will be his make or break year for me, but to this point I find it hard to be firmly on his bandwagon. I still have an article that Bernie wrote about Soderberg and it conluded with the line "nice guys do finish last."

[moytoy12]

B.S. Take your tired stuff and go home. You are passionate about these guys because they are local and exponentially more passionate when they are from Vashon. Love and hate for slu really has nothing to do with it.

Vtime...grad school...ha. No, really, you're gonna be something someday. Wait, you already are or so you have told us. moron.

If your act on this board resembles your behavior, intellect, reason and view of reality in real life, then...well...good luck buddy.

[3star_recruit]

I still have an article that Bernie wrote about

>Soderberg and it conluded with the line "nice guys do finish

>last."

Last year nice guys finished 4th. Maybe Bernie missed that. I'm still waiting on that Dwayne Pope guy to sign and for Brian Gregory to live up to the sainthood Bernie bestowed upon him.

[billiken_roy]

the fact you are "passionate" about a lot of high school players that have a marginal chance at even playing at any division one school let alone one that a lot of us beleive has the potential to be a top 40 team in the very near future doesnt demonstrate you give a damn about the billikens. you care more about getting these marginal kids a chance to play at a division one program is my guess when in reality most (not all) are more suited for umsl, harris stowe, western illinois or quincy college. if you cant see the difference in what we read in your statements then that is your problem.

i used to have a boss that used to tell me, it isnt necessarily the fact of what i am saying as it the perception of those listening. if the perception is wrong and you dont like it, maybe you need to change the way your message is being conveyed or explain your thoughts in a different manner. but i agree with billikan, you dont come off as a billiken fan one bit. imo you come off as a high school basketball fan that wants to see possible diamonds in the rough or hidden gems get a chance to play at slu.