kwyjibo Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Harris-Stowe beat UI-Springfield 92-88 UI-Springfield beat St Xavier(IL) 79-68 St Xavier (IL) beat UIC 74-73 at UIC !!!! UIC beat UWM at UWM 94-86 UWM beat Saint Louis 82-71 So by the (very) simple logic of transivity Harris-Stowe would beat SLU by 35!! Isn't the selective use of FACTS illustrative? Seriously though, NAIA ball is better than I thought. As it is largely a midwestern phenomenon I know little about it and I was curious how a team like Harris-Stowe compares to other pre-season options. It appears that there are some pretty decent NAIA Div 1 teams (including a bunch in IL and MO) but Harris-Stowe was not one of them last year. NAIA I is a step below NCAA-DIV II but way better than NCAA D-III generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebillikensfriend Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 ok who gets pumped up to play Harris stowe? please...our 2 walkons and any 3 players we feel are the 3 worse would beat HS pretty easy... NAIA is ok and there are always players that don't have the grades and still want to play ball so they go NAIA...i know you did some research and you have facts but we will not get beat by HS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 UIC beat Mississippi 87-75 Mississippi beat Alabama 71-61 Alabama beat Florida 82-77 Harris-Stowe has a rightful claim to the national championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 >ok who gets pumped up to play Harris stowe? please...our 2 >walkons and any 3 players we feel are the 3 worse would beat >HS pretty easy... NAIA is ok and there are always players >that don't have the grades and still want to play ball so >they go NAIA...i know you did some research and you have >facts but we will not get beat by HS. Wrong. You have to qualify to play NAIA. If you dont have a certain GPA they wont even let you go full-time at Harris-Stowe. Its very hard to get eligible at Harris-Stowe especially if you transfer in. If you think your walk-on are better than the top 8 at Harris-Stowe you're nuts. McKendree had a down year, guys like Mike Strobbe and Mark Stovall would wipe the floor with your walk-ons. All Peyton can do is shoot and Wendell is horrible. Dont knock guys you havent seen play. SLU's also never had a walk-on better than Stanley Dooley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I don't know, something tells me that John Redden would have done quite well against Harris-Stowe-level competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Redden was okay. Didnt he lose his spot in the rotation to Dave Ferguson? I think Redden still coaches in Saint Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted August 7, 2006 Author Share Posted August 7, 2006 I love it! I'll be there when they hang the banner. A few years ago I showed how the Hampshire College Frogs were the real national champions. It is probably too complicated to get the real joke here but Hampshire is a "non-traditional" college and does not even have a "real" basketball team (a club whose primary goal is to "improve" invites some really small schools to play them and they surprisingly beat tiny Vermont Tech which led to a long search to have them ultimately be champs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 I think that before Ferg arrived, Redden hadn't received all that much playing time, but by the time he (Redden) was a senior, he had become a decent contributor. Redden played very well during the Miracle in Memphis run. I want to say that Ferg is coaching somewhere too these days - I thought someone mentioned that here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 7, 2006 Share Posted August 7, 2006 Along with Josh Fisher, Kenny Brown, and Kevin Lisch, Redden is one of the best defensive players we've had in recent history. He didn't offer much on the other end, but he could frustrate any competition we faced, and shut down a number of good players. He didn't play a lot until late in his career, and he and Ferg were such different players that it might not be fair to say they were directly competing for minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebillikensfriend Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 ok VTIME did you know that HS record las year was something like 5 and 18?? and your telling me that peyton and wendell wouldn't hold their own against them. I thought they held their own against our players. and... i don't think theres a player on HS team that can walk on at slu right now, Phil Hunt is there coach and he's the best player in the gym, thats not a knock on Phil because i thought he was a very good walk on for us. peyton and wendell can start at HS no problem right now. no one can shot better then peyton and no one can bang and rebound like wendell. this is something thats not worth talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 >ok VTIME did you know that HS record las year was something >like 5 and 18?? and your telling me that peyton and wendell >wouldn't hold their own against them. I thought they held >their own against our players. > >and... i don't think theres a player on HS team that can >walk on at slu right now, Phil Hunt is there coach and he's >the best player in the gym, thats not a knock on Phil >because i thought he was a very good walk on for us. peyton >and wendell can start at HS no problem right now. no one >can shot better then peyton and no one can bang and rebound >like wendell. this is something thats not worth talking >about. You're gonna look at the record from last year and tell me how good the players are? If SLU goes 15-15 next year it doesnt make Kevin, Tommie or Ian any worse than they are. A lot of the time it's the coach, which is usually the case at Harris-Stowe. Neither Wendell or Peyton would start for Stowe. Are guards are our best player. 6'3 sophomore Dustin Fox was our second leading scorer last year as a freshman and is a cousin of Phil Hunt. Neither PJ or Wendell would start for Harris-Stowe. Our pg Melvin Martin could walk-on for Harris-Stowe and would earn a scholarship. Our walk-it-up on offense 2-3 zone defense style doesnt fit our speedy athletic personnel. That's why Harris-Stowe doesnt win. If you have any 3 point shooters they'll torch us everytime. Our pg Melvin Martin would be SLU's third best guard tomorrow. He jumps like Tommie and shoots like Kevin. He's just bounced around between high schools and colleges. He just showed up at Harris-Stowe and walked-on. He came off the bench in his first game and scored 32 points. He's an honor student that plays for fun. If 6'4 guard Arthur Clair and 6'5 guard Devon Moss would've been eligible Stowe would've won the conference and been ranked. You guys act like everybody who plays basketball knows about AAU or cares to play. That doesnt mean they cant hold their own or outplay division 1 guys. There are a lot of division guys playing at lower levels or not playing at all, and a lot of overhyped guys playing division 1 ball. Our top 3 guards last year were all better than Drejaj and Drejaj may have started for us, but wouldn't have even been our leading scorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Vtime ... you wonder why we think you are ridiculous. You are claiming that a player for Harris Stowe jumps like Tommie and shoots like Kevin. Come on ... and he decided to go to Harris Stowe because Duke was too far away. Then read your last sentence. Our top 3 guards last year were all better than Drejaj and Drejaj may have started for us, but wouldn't have even been our leading scorer. If your top 3 guards were all better than why would Drejaj have started? No one who plays at Harris Stowe is better than AD. You really say some of the stupidest things ... then you wonder why no one takes you seriously. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlsfinest Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I actaully know those guys from Harris-Stowe. Melvin ??? could walk-on at SLU right now..I'm not quite sure how he slipped so far under the radar. Arthur Clair was a very good player coming out of Normandy HS. He was one of the stars for the STL Eagles & I think he was an all-metro player. I believe he might've been a late qualifier, and that hurt his D1 chances, so he signed with MO Southern. His mother became quite ill, so he transferred back home to be closer to his family. A year later, he lost his eligibilty after signging with a Semi-pro team that turned out to be a scam. Tough Break for that kid. With better decision making & fewer family issues, he would be at a low-major D1 school right now. ---- While Harris-Stowe is not one of the superior NAIA teams right now, there are several NAIA programs that could beat SLU and other D1 programs if given the opportunity. SLU practices a lot at Harris-Stowe and I'm sure that they know guys like Clair and Martin. While this board may not think highly their talent, some of the SLU players probably have plenty of respect for their skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 "While Harris-Stowe is not one of the superior NAIA teams right now, there are several NAIA programs that could beat SLU and other D1 programs if given the opportunity." You got to be kidding me. Name one that could beat SLU and try to back it up. Hey V stop writing in under an alias trying to back up your points. It is funny how the only time stlfinest post is when you say something really dumb and he attempts to back you up. I am really starting to believe you have no clue when it comes to what it takes to compete at different levels of basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 If you are going to back him up ... back up what he said, not something entirely different. Saying someone could walk on at SLU as oppossed to they have 3 guards better than AD ... is 2 different things. I have no doubt that a good NAIA player could help as a walk on at many D1 schools. If I say SLU could beat the Miami Heat ... it doesn't make it true ... though it is probably closer to the truth than 95% of what Vtime says ... and it looks like maybe 98% of what you say. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 >>ok VTIME did you know that HS record las year was something >>like 5 and 18?? and your telling me that peyton and wendell >>wouldn't hold their own against them. I thought they held >>their own against our players. >> >>and... i don't think theres a player on HS team that can >>walk on at slu right now, Phil Hunt is there coach and he's >>the best player in the gym, thats not a knock on Phil >>because i thought he was a very good walk on for us. peyton >>and wendell can start at HS no problem right now. no one >>can shot better then peyton and no one can bang and rebound >>like wendell. this is something thats not worth talking >>about. > >You're gonna look at the record from last year and tell me >how good the players are? If SLU goes 15-15 next year it >doesnt make Kevin, Tommie or Ian any worse than they are. A >lot of the time it's the coach, which is usually the case at >Harris-Stowe. Neither Wendell or Peyton would start for >Stowe. Are guards are our best player. 6'3 sophomore >Dustin Fox was our second leading scorer last year as a >freshman and is a cousin of Phil Hunt. Neither PJ or >Wendell would start for Harris-Stowe. Our pg Melvin Martin >could walk-on for Harris-Stowe and would earn a scholarship. > Our walk-it-up on offense 2-3 zone defense style doesnt fit >our speedy athletic personnel. That's why Harris-Stowe >doesnt win. If you have any 3 point shooters they'll torch >us everytime. Our pg Melvin Martin would be SLU's third >best guard tomorrow. He jumps like Tommie and shoots like >Kevin. He's just bounced around between high schools and >colleges. He just showed up at Harris-Stowe and walked-on. >He came off the bench in his first game and scored 32 >points. He's an honor student that plays for fun. If 6'4 >guard Arthur Clair and 6'5 guard Devon Moss would've been >eligible Stowe would've won the conference and been ranked. >You guys act like everybody who plays basketball knows about >AAU or cares to play. That doesnt mean they cant hold their >own or outplay division 1 guys. There are a lot of division >guys playing at lower levels or not playing at all, and a >lot of overhyped guys playing division 1 ball. Our top 3 >guards last year were all better than Drejaj and Drejaj may >have started for us, but wouldn't have even been our leading >scorer. So you are saying that Stowe has a guy who would be SLU's 3rd best guard, which means that he's better than Dwayne Polk. So in your opinion did SLU make a mistake in offering Polk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 of this clair guy signed with a pro team, how can he play at harris stowe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlsfinest Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 > >Vtime ... you wonder why we think you are ridiculous. You >are claiming that a player for Harris Stowe jumps like >Tommie and shoots like Kevin. Come on ... and he decided to >go to Harris Stowe because Duke was too far away. Then read >your last sentence. Our top 3 guards last year were all >better than Drejaj and Drejaj may have started for us, but >wouldn't have even been our leading scorer. If your top 3 >guards were all better than why would Drejaj have started? >No one who plays at Harris Stowe is better than AD. You >really say some of the stupidest things ... then you wonder >why no one takes you seriously. > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman Drejaj might've started because you can start 4 guards at the NAIA level every game, sometimes 5 depending on the matchups. No one said Duke was too far away. There's so much talent out here that doesnt care about going to college at all. Everyone who plays ball doesnt want to play for Duke. Some guys just want to be playground legends or go to a school with their friends. Everyone cant just leave their families behind either. Most of our players work full-time jobs and go to school full-time and aren't on full scholarship. That goes for almost every sport. Even our baseball and softball teams which have quickly become amonst the best in the conference. What do you know about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 finest, you blew your cover today. at least now you dont have to try hide your double identity anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebillikensfriend Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 VTIME you have to be kidding about the Drejaj comment...if Drejaj wasn't that good then why did he finish 3rd all-time in steals and 4th all-time in 3's??? strange, but he's not that good...he may have not scored big every night but he did ALL the other things that all players cannot do...and stlsfinest you are a funny guy... "he MAY have started because NAIA can start 4 guards" haha thats funny...and phil's cousin shots the ball slower then ANY bball player i know...you know what let me know the next time a HS player makes it out of STL to play basketball nevermind go overseas and sign a 2 year contract the way Drejaj did this year...ohhhh but wait he's not that good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Vee.....I thought Phillip Hunt had a nice walk-on career at SLU. What would Phillip have accomplished in four years at Harris-Stowe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 So you are saying they are good enough to play D1 and get a full ride but they chose to stay here and go to HS and work a full time job while going to school? I could've been President ... but I chose to live close to the Billikens and own a used car lot. This is such a stupid argument ... I quit. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The 4 years he played college ball ran concurrently with Stanley Dooley, who's one of our best players ever. He was 10 in the nation in scoring Phil's senior year at SLU. He probably would've started though. It's hard to play ball and go to school at Harris-Stowe. After your freshman year the course load is hell. Harris-Stowe never has any continuity. The team is different every year. Four year players like Dooley are a rarity. The starting lineup that started this past season was completely different than the lineup from the previous season. This may be the most starters Harris-Stowe has returning as only one player graduated and everyone else's grades appear to be over. When Phil finally takes over as the head coach, I expect the team to actually use its athletic advantage over other teams by pressing and speeding up the tempo instead of the ball control offense they play now. It's like watching paint dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 > So you are saying they are good enough to play D1 and get >a full ride but they chose to stay here and go to HS and >work a full time job while going to school? > > I could've been President ... but I chose to live close to >the Billikens and own a used car lot. > > This is such a stupid argument ... I quit. > > > Official Billikens.com sponsor of H >Waldman Yeah, Melvin Martin is good enough to play division 1, but didnt have any offers coming out of St. Louis Christian. There was a kid named Dane Brumagin who came out of St. Louis in 2005. He averaged about over 30 pts 10 rebs 5 asts 5 stls and 3blks and played AAU for Gateway and the best he could muster was UMKC. Martin played no AAU. Most A lot of kids dont play AAU. AAU wasnt stressed then as it is now. You guys keep talking this choice stuff. A lot of our players have responsibilities at home and maybe the only one in the house working. They didnt have time to play AAU and they couldnt go off to some school if they did have a scholarship. Why is that so hard to understand. There's no point in going to Duke to play basketball if you're not going to the NBA. The point is to get a degree whether it's Harvard or Harris-Stowe. I'm just glad most of these guys are doing something positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 We only have one guard from Polk's class and he isnt better than Polk. So I wouldnt say it was a mistake. Polk's freshman year was pretty good. I wouldnt give up on him yet. At worst he's a change of pace guard off the bench. At his best he's a blur with a great mid range jump shot and ball hawk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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